Ok all I know its been a while since i have posted any free stuff. I have been away honing in my skills and learning a whole lot more before releasing some great stuff!

My question is this:

I have not used Vicky that often, Not often enough to really get the feel for the differences between posette and vicky.

What i want to know is What is the difference you as the artists see between vicky and posette? BE SPECIFIC! I am creating a figure now from scratch that I will make FREE to the public. I want a figure that will rival that of both posette and Vicky. But i NEED your help!

I need your input on areas or info that makes you like vicky over posette. As detailed as possible! I want to give the community something that everyone will love.

If posette had slightly more polygons would that make her better than vicky? , Morphs?, Longer torso?, More Polygons in her face???

Let me know all info will be helpful! and anyone you know that would like a great free figure let them know to post what they think would make a great figure and whats great about vicky Vs posette!

-Love to all!
Lady Cherry

First, which version of Victoria? All of them (IMO) are superior to Posette in their ways. More polygons, a more "natural" shape (rounder breasts, no annoying muscle bumps around the knees), better joints, more morphs. Each version of Victoria has been an improvement on the previous, with V3 (IMO) being the absolute best female model currently available. The joints and morphs are much more controllable and generally more realistic, the polygon count is way higher and the default shape is the most natural yet.

so the muscles allready put into the figure you didnt like SamTherapy?

Not in Posette - they looked too lumpy, and there was no easy way to remove them. Victoria(3) has at least the option to change her muscularity very easily via a wide selection of body morphs, and V2 has a fairly good range of body shapes. V1 was pretty basic, but still a significant step up from Posette. I've bought a good selection of figures - Stephanie, Dina V, Candy, Solondra III, Natalia/Natrixa 2 (and got a free upgrade to 3), but IMO, V3 beats them all.

Jim Burton redid Posette, fixed some of that, now more like Super Model. Posette 2003. Tashar 59

So Sam in V3 (I havent purchased her yet) she seems to have alot more polygolns and morphs as well? Giving her a ease of use? Or are morphs more easily created for her?

I don't care about the body, but Vick's face is definitely better. It's more than simply the -presence- of added morphs. I built some morphs for Posette and found that the lips and cheeks just couldn't deform naturally. The construction of V's face mesh somehow makes a wider range of changes possible without breaking up into oddly placed facets.

What I like in Vic 2 : - good geometry, enough to make a realistic appearance, not too much so that loading, refreshing and rendering time are minimal - better joints, especially for shoulders when the arms are up - more realistic eyes - great number of morphs and add-ons - huge choice of clothes / props / textures to chose from You have set yourself a huge task. In my experience, there is no way you can please everyone with anything, no matter how hard you try. There are always those who won't like it. And then there are those who like to dislike. I wish you a good luck and a great success. Compiler

Ahh ok ockham that helps. Anyone have any specifics or can show what the differences are beteen a morph for vicky and one for posette? Does the posette face morph get sharp jagged edges or something to that effect?

What do You want? U want all people to use her? Or just those few, that (by accident) or at their work, have the hardware to cope with her? Posette was quite well but needs some figure adjustments like the knees that are too low on the legs. The breast don't have the right shape.. etc.. ALL figures, and I mean ALL figures have problems when bending the thights to 90 to silmulate a sitting position. In my humble opinion Posette 2003 from Jim Burton is by far the best. Why? Good legs, better breast, better joints, and most and by far THE single most important thing : It is NOT that big. Most of V3's problems come from its size. The obj is 3.9 or something and the cr2 can go to 120MB. Unmanagable and becomes useless. Don't even try to put more than one in one scene, without THE super-turbo machine, put dynamic hair and clothes on, take the rest of the year off and pray against power interupts. Make a realistic obj, make the grouping like POSETTE, NOT like Eve or Judy, to name a few. Always remember. There is a lot of stuff for Posette for free. Most of V's stuff has to be payd for. It depends on what you want. PS; Judy has a butt problem and a major problem between the collars and the upper arms. Ah, yeah, almost forgot ; ONE map, 1. Head and body on one map. Hope this helps, Tony

Well, that roused my curiosity, so I made a comparison picture, and the difference is impressive. As you can see, the improvement goes beyond mesh density, though that's obviously important. Vic's face is designed with "wrinkle areas" overlying the locations of real muscles. So it should be possible to set up morphs that pull specific vertices corresponding to real movements, and it's also possible to put laugh lines and dimples where they truly belong. Posette's face has no such connection to reality; except for the lips, it's just a mesh that follows the external shape of a face.

It almsot seems to me to be too many polys on vicky. But the polys that matter in the right locations like the lips and around the eyes. Whereas posette is more simplistic more uniformed. wouldnt you say? Also does anyone have an image or link to posette 2003? Thanks!

One map? Uh no, the best thing about V3 is the mutiple maps. Allows you to put in really hires maps for when you need them in close ups. At the very least keep the eyes as a separate map. Notice how many eye replacements there are for posette and Vic1&2? High Polycount is definitely not a necessity. Look at the Dina/Vina models really high poly counts and not a very attractive model (IMHO) Just so she's smooth where she's supposed to be and bends well. Posettes got a better face, again in my opinion, But I find in very hard to use. I don't know how hackWorthless does it, he got some great faces for posette. Good luck

yea but you could allways do that if you used UVmapper at all. You could make as many maps as you wanted to. But i see people that want those maps first thing.

At the end of day I want realism and usabillity. Vicky 3 is very realistic and takes her poses well. She can morph into hundreds of looks (lets face it all Posettes look like Posette). She is gonna take some beating!

lets face it all Posettes look like Posette Been to the galleries in the last year or so? Pretty much all Vickies look like Vicky. I'm with vilters on this one: the combination of the obj and the cr2 makes V3 a real resource hog. Couple that with Poser's sometimes faulty memory allocation, and you have real problems. I'm thinking something along the lines of Burton's Posette 2003 would be great, because it gives you adaptability as well as a smaller file size. And yeah, most of the stuff for Posette is free, while Vicky's requires a credit card. I don't see that changing.

Lady Cherry, head over to DAZ and read the Vicky Moph Injection article in the Poser Arcana area. IMHO morph injection is what makes v3 very very nice. Also, separet maps for head, body and eyes are a must!

I think I'm going to try to ask for what I want, rather than telling you how to create it. Vicky 2.0 poly count is good and usable for creating morphs. Better joint parameters so the body bends well. Shoulders, elbows and knees are of course the greatest problem. A mannequin figure so we can use LordNakagawa's techniques to fit clothing to her! Logically gathered polys as pointed out by Ockham. A natural shape to the body. Don't knwo that I have anything new here, but it is what I would want. Oh, and...thanks for your generous offer of time and effort. While you cannot please everyone, I am sure many will appreciate your model for all her merits.

There are so many morphs for Posette you can get much more variety from her than Vicky (really!). Vicky is needed for close-up work. If you are doing an action picture at relatively low resolution then Posette is more than adequate and easier to use. Posette is easier to use in external renders. For really bendy poses, V3 is far and away the best.

ok Sooo It sounds like people want better bending joints meaning more polys ate the joints. (So joints only more polys) Also alot of people seem to like more polys on the lips around the eyes and cheeks of vicky so i will put more polys there as well. This will keep the polys low and give you a good bending morphing figure.

Posette has a MUCH nicer default body shape than Victoria (1 or 2, both are same geom), I also prefer her one part breasts, that is they are part of the chest, not in the collars, they are easier to control, easier to morph, and just look more natural to me. Victoria 2s breasts look kind of rigid and stuck on. Posette would be a lot better than Victoria 2, if she had a few more judiciously placed polygons, and much better joints. Victorias (Take it that I am referring to V2 when I say Victoria) mons pubis is another big problem aria, for one thing, looking from the front the angle is too wide, this aria does not look natural, and the overall body shape is just awful. On the plus side she has somewhat better joints, Posettes hip/thigh interface is particularly awful. Posette is particularly short of polys on the ears, eyelashes, chin, breasts, buttock, and genital aria. LateXa V2 has considerably better joints than Posette, whos geometry she is based on, they are also better than Victorias, but not many have the object and she also suffers from the two part breasts. Victorias file sizes are two big, both the object (due to injudicious scattering of polys), and the cr2 is too big due to too many morphs. I dont have Victoria 3, but feel that morph injection is definitely the way to go. Here is my wish list, the figure I want is like this: Supports morph injection, some sensible naming convention should be used, e.g. each body part could have 3 blank morph channels called M01 M02 M03 (its not necessary to use body parts in the names). The head should have enough extra channels to support phonemes and expression morphs, plus 2 or 3 channels for shape morphs. The chest should have at least 6 channels (for breast motion compensation morphs, right, left, up, down, lay down). The hip at least 10 (the hip is a good place to put all sorts of ERC stuff, better than the BODY, as its easy to cursor select), all other parts should have 3 (you could consider putting more is the hands, for various grasp type things. It would be good if the figure came with some facial expressive morphs but this is not essential, no others would be necessary, as people will be flocking to make morphs for this. The figure would have a similar polygon count to Posette, except in the arias mentioned earlier. She should have a high enough poly count in the hip to allow for good quality genitals to be constructed (and this would probably be quite high). She would come with a reasonable quality texture (its so disappointing to get a new figure and not have a texture to use with it). Consider adapting one of Staales. Above all I think that good joints are something that is lacking in Posette and Victoria, make a figure with good joints and youre on a winner. As to the body shape, Posette is good, but wider hips thicker thighs, smoother belly, shorter neck, and as a last personal note; I like small breasts, but I know I am outnumbered. To sum up: Good body shape. Good face. Good joints. Reasonable default texture. Not too high a polygon count. Morph injection supported (via use blank channels and of sensible naming convention), actual morphs not necessary, but facial expression morphs would be a nice bonus.

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This is just some fun info since we made Posette and Victoria. Posette was modelled from an aritist sculpture of a woman. The sculpture was scanned. The P4Man was made from a model previously done by our Chris Creek done freehand I believe. Though I think some Posette elements were used to speed up production for Poser 3 and 4. Michael1&2, Vicki1&2 and Vicki3 are based on human body scans. Don & Judy"P5" were made from P4Woman"Posette" and P4Man"Dork" Posette was great at the time but really just not very sophisticated. I guess now it is better to think of her as an alt-low res figure. Anton Daz3d

Also Lady Cherry, Just so you know, Posette isn't exactly open source. The figures are not owned by CL. They license them from us for each version of Poser they are included in. If you have any questions about distribution and modification you can always email me at anton@daz3d.com Anton Daz3d.com

1. The bends - elbows, knees, thigh/hip. 2. Mapped to use Vicky Textures. 3. Realistic genitals built in. 4. Realistic breasts with movement morphs. 5. Hi-res lashes/brows.

Attached Link: http://home.online.no/~kjellil/Index-AllStuff.htm

'lets face it all Posettes look like Posette' Not if you have BodyMorpher, and it can even blend textures in P4, and mix full size and normal sized textures on select bodyparts. BM can be downloaded for free at: http://home.online.no/~kjellil/Index-AllStuff.htm There still is a file not found error for the FS lip texture sins i haven't bothered to upload the fix, just rename one of the other FS lip textures. BTW: There might be a V3 BodyMorpher in the future, i just have to buy here first. There just isn't much left to morph on Posette:) and i need a challenge.... I also have a 10 page+ text file on how morphs should work, SuperMorphs, MirrorMorphs, MetaMorphs, MathMorphs, Morph Axis Biasing etc.. maybe i'll finish it and post it one day. A morph have access 10 times more data than textures, but still there is very little you can do with them.

Pheonix The figure i am making I made from the ground up. No posette mesh or vicky mesh is used in creating her at all. I am a 3D artist and i do not use any other person or companies mesh in my new work. There is no copyright on work i created from the ground up.

I agree completely with lesbentley. On some of his comments I would suggest to try Posette 2003 by Jim Burton. Better model and better joints still acepting all of Posettes morphs and textures. I even agree on the small breast part. And Please, put them in the right place. Most of the time they are too high on the chest or just looking (upturned)skyhigh. In my book, gravity goes down. But with nice small breast, even that would not be a problem. Ah, yeah, while you are at it; Posettes knees are too low on the legs too. Overall ; keep the polycount down. My experience tells me that a realtively low res mesh with a good texture is more apreciated then the reserce. Greetings, and good luck, Tony

You know, I hate to say this, as I did the Posette 2003, Supermodel Vickie, Supermodel Lori (lower poly count than the Posette!), Hi-Fashion Vickie and Pin-up Stephanie, but I REALLY like Vickie III! She poses just oh so nicely, and her morphs work just so well, and with the injector setup I don't have to wade through a bunch I'll never use. She isn't perfect, but DAZ did put a lot of time into making her work right, and it shows. I think her head has a few more polys than absolutely necessary, probably to suit the more extream morphs (like gargoyle faces), but other than that I think it has gotten to the point a one man shop like me couldn't really improve on her mesh or operation. Maybe improve on her shape a tiny little bit, which is why I did Glamorous Vickie. ;-)