I have a project requiring me to render a 3D image of a specific piece of property with specific elevations, a stream, ponds and trees in specific places.

I have managed to create a terrain model that pretty closely matches the topography of the property, and I think I can create acceptable mapping for color, bumps, etc.

The PROBLEM...

Is in placing the trees and some other elements in exact locations on the terrain - (there are lots of trees and they need to be in the correct arrangements). When viewing the terrain in the top window it appears as a wireframe...

I would have to see a semi-rendered version from overhead in to see the details of the position of hills, streams, etc. in order to place shrubbery where it belongs. The wire frame view just won't work for this, and trying to do it from the camera view isn't practical.

Just got the demo and am looking at it and the quick-step tutorial doesn't get into this. So go easy - I'm new on this software, and the obvious isn't to me, yet.

Does Vue offer a way to get this sort of realistic modeling and placement of elements to a terrain?

Thanks

If you need to do an architecture work with exact mesurements, Vue will not work for you. But otherwise you can work with OpenGL (if Vue supports your video card). You can give to every object and vegetation a different color (this you even can do with the wireframe view). To place a tree (or an obect) exactly on a terrain, place it in the top view where you want it to be. Then grab it in the side view and bring it up largely over the terrain. Click "drop objects" icon (the last on bottom left). Then it will become to sit exactly where it has to be. You can resize any window to fill the screen in double-clicking on its top bar. You can do a render from the top view in selecting the TOP CAM (first select your usual cam, then choose top cam in the right window and render.) Vue 4 has a grid in the top view. If this is not sufficient, create a terrain, flatten it completely and push it under the ground. This can help you to get a better grid. When you don't need it any more, just delete it. Hope this helps a little. If you need more details or if you don't understand somethng, please write again, I will then do a screenshot for you. Guitta

Thanks, Guitta.... I understand the idea of using the grid, but it seems like a major workaround when if it were possible to see a rendered top view of the terrain the process would be a lot simpler.... I need to place objects relative to the elevations on my terrain. If I give the terrain a color, the wireframe of the terrain would all be the same color, right? So if I wanted to place a bush in an exact position next to a depression in the terrain, what would allow me to see the depression from the top wire-frame view? I did figure out how to see different objects, trees, etc. relative to one another, but not relative to terrain details. I have used Bryce for a long time, and it works in many ways as Vue does. You can render the different viewports (Top, side, etc.) in Bryce and then superimpose the wireframe of your terrain over the rendered image. This allows fairly precise placement of objects according to the terrain details. Is it possible to render any view other than the main camera view in Vue, and keep it rendered while you place objects over the image... or perhaps import an overhead render as a guide on a background layer to arrange objects to? There are some other issues in Bryce that I am hoping will be different in Vue. Thanks for your very kind help.

As far as i understood, you have precice elevations of your terrain. So you must have precice coordinates of the places where the vegetation has to be. If you do want to do it visually everything stands or falls with the capabilities of your system (graphic card). If this can handle OpenGL in a good way, you should be able to position the vegetation - in combination of top and side view - easily. If a software in this price category can do something like this, then i think Vue can do. Especially because of this drop to next object lying under the selected one feature (str-D). But i can see a complete other problem. You seem to be very brave! You want to use a complete new and therefore unknown software first time directly in a bigger commercial job - as far as i understood. I personally would normally always try to practice at least half a year on any 3D software before doing the first (more complex) commercial job. Hope that we can see the results one time. Good luck in the meantime.

Thanks.
I have not commited to doing the project yet, this is experimental at this point. I have come close with Bryce, but find some resolution problems (animating a fly-over of the property, when the camera approaches parts of the terrain, the enlargement causes some real rough detail, even with elevation greyscale maps at 1024x1024, or larger).

No, I do not have all the numerical elevations.
I am working with aerial photos and some previous sketches showing placement of shrubbery. I am painting the greyscale height map image in PhotoShop by eyeballing the scant reference material that I have - an impossible task in itself.

Your "what you see" images above are helpful, and I know about dropping the trees, etc. to the object below (Bryce does this as well). The problem is, as shown in your images, #3, specifically, is positioning the shrubbery without benefit of seeing the rendered terrain, only the wireframe image. Thus placing the shrubbery is a trial and error process of dropping the plants, rendering and moving the plants around again and again. I pretty much solved this particular issue in Bryce, and had hoped that Vue offered a similar process.

I agree, it is a crazy project without DEMS, Topo maps or anything of that sort... but after 20+ years, I've never accused clients of being sane or rational.

I appreciate your input, and it does help... perhaps when it is all added up, the answer will appear... or I can go do something better with my time.

thanks much for the efforts

If you (or your clients) can afford World Construction Set by 3dNature, you will be able to do what you want in it. It's around $1000 for a copy. It's what I use at work for landscape visualization.

I should add that one thing World Construction Set does not have is much in the way of 3d content - you have to supply it from other sources (TreeFrog,etc). In this respect Vue is better.

I would have to agree with redon634. For what you are trying to do Nate, World Construction Set was made for just that kind of job. Cheers

There is a way for you to do what you want. I assemble my scenes in AutoCAD. The model is divided into layers, where each layer is made up for each texture or color to be used in Vue. You can create a very precise model this way. To position trees accurately, place vertical "sticks"or markers into the AutoCAD file. Then in Vue, you can "drop" or position each tree or bush over the marker to get accurate placement. Then export the AutoCAD scene into a 3DS file format, which imports into VUE. The idea is that you use VUE only for placing vegetation and rendering. You can even create the terrain in Vue, export to AutoCAD, then import the scene.

Good show...

Sorry, but I don't have autoCad... I don't do much in the way of engineering/architectural type work, however you did make me think of trying something in Rhino if I can get the terrain in there.

Thanks for all the good info... the World Construction Set is looking good - downloaded demo so I can kick it around a bit.

Two minor comments. If you render in Sketch mode, it is possible to check the positions of the plants very quickly. Also, Truespace Version 3 is now widely available and is FREE. It has a very precise 3D coordinate system in it that is very easy to use. You can both build the terrain mesh in it (or export it from Vue or Bryce into Truespace if you have already built the mesh), and then position little cubes or sticks very precisely for the veg positions. Vue imports Truespace files.

I will post a couple of sample rough test images here to show how the placement of objects is simplified when you have a visual render of the top view where you can see the details of the elevation as you place a new object and drag it around. This does not require adding any "stick" markers, etc.

These are from Bryce 5... This is the sort of thing I thought might be available using Vue.

Thanks Gebe.
I'm not trying to sell Bryce or imply that it is better than Vue... I'm only trying to figure out how to work in Vue... and I thought posting this image may help explain what I am attempting to do.

What you show is what I need, I think.... Obviously I have to do a lot of experimenting to learn Vue. So far my scanning of the documents that come along with the download demo hasn't turned up any detail on this.

A question, if you don't mind...
In your render of the top view with orange trees... are you able to select and move one of your trees in that view while the render remains visible as a rendered, colored image, or does it revert to wireframe when you add or move an object?

I'm not trying to be a pest or a smart aleck, just trying to get a handle on this... It would be good to have what you show and have that remain in view while positioning other objects.

I do really like what I've seen of Vue so far.

again, thanks for your patience.

We are here to help you:-). Feel free to ask fore whatever you need. You ask: In your render of the top view with orange trees... are you able to select and move one of your trees in that view while the render remains visible as a rendered, colored image, The answer is yes:-). See the following messages, I show you how.

If you need beginner tutorials, see in our FAQ in the header. I have plenty for beginners here (just blick the link):

blick?? no, click!! (LOL)

Actually, I like "Blick" !!

thanks again...