I'm not sure if there's anything specific about this in the ToS, but personally I take a dim view of using the freestuff here as a platform for crude political sloganeering. Anyone with more spare time than good manners can easily run up a texture for the P4 t-shirt with some slogan on it and then upload it here. It's an invitation for someone to reply with a counter-slogan. But do we really want that sort of thing at this site?

Hi I Im'd ClintH last night who's told me to refer it to spike see yo later Dave BTW glad it wasn't just me!

We had the same situation right after the election in 2000. The admin and mods nipped it in the bud before it got out of hand. I think they should do the same now. You have a stand? Fine. You want to express an opinion? Fine. Do it in OT or even with art in your gallery, but leave the libraries out of it. Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica

... since it's a general site matter, not Poser specific. Kevin.

I second casamerica totally. Being French, there are a lot of things I could say on a mainly US forum about the upcoming war, but I just don't see the point to discuss this in a forum dedicated to 3D rendering. And I too was irritated by the posting in the freestuff, which looked to me as if someone was trying to "slip around the rules". I'm very glad that someone else mentioned it. I would not have run the risk of being acused of being, well..., french. LOL I'm very glad that this place is still a place of neutrality, where everyone can chat and download useful things, whatever their country, gender, religion or whatever. I hope it will stay like this. Compiler

Nice to see that there are others that think the same about it.

I try 2 behave here myself, it is hard

I'd like to hear the moderators' opinions. I have a set of 3 "Peace T-shirt textures for P4W" ready, just to provide a counterpoint-download; as Phantast says, it's not that difficult. HOWEVER, I've hesitated to upload it for the very reasons Phantast and casamerica describe. I want to be a "good guest" at Renderosity, and save expressions of my vehement opinions for those places where it's considered appropriate. I also want to express my admiration to the folks at Renderosity for appreciating that politics-through-art is acceptable, and even creating a genre category for it. Given the venerable history of such expression, I always have found the assertion that art should stay "away from all that" faintly ludicrous. But the Renderosity understanding of this principle has redoubled my desire not to abuse that understanding - as I said, to be a "good guest". And finally, 'cause I just can't resist a snarky comment: Is it just me, or is using an artistic website to make a political point - slamming actors for making political points - kinda... contradictory? Ironic, even? April Follies

April, I don't think anyone would really object to textures with peace signs on them -- the difference is people wear t-shirts with peace signs all the time, impending war or not. Plus, it's just like saying "I disagree with the war" as opposed to actually insulting a group and labeling them as traitors for their beliefs.

Ok, i have read over all of the replies as well as given much thought about the topic. Now First let me start by saying I was in the US Army for 5 and 1/2 yrs and I do not see the need for the war or why America seems to feel that it must tell everyone what to do in their own back yard. Don't get me wrong, i do understand why some feel that we should, but i don't think that they are thinking with a cool head.... Think about this... If you place chess and then use all your pawns first. What happens when you azre out of pawns and you opponet has all his back peieces. He wins right, well America does not have any borders or even a way to stop anyone from bringing a speed boat into a shore with a Nuke on it. So why bother to fight when all here will be wide open and yes I do own a few guns just in case.LOL Well as for the shirt thing I think that if you are giving the shirt away for free, then it is up to the user to use it as he/she see's fit, but then again if the shirts are going back and forth about : " Your a butt head!" and a reply: " Your mother!!" Then it should be pulled. We all have a right to feel what we do as well as express it in any fashion that we wish. That is part of what AMERICA Great! ~ Barry C A.K.A Senjin or Paradox if you prefer. :)

We all have a right to feel what we do as well as express it in any fashion that we wish.<<< True. But when that right is exercised without any respect toward others or without acceptance of the responsibilities that come with that right you end up with the childish, immature exchanges currently going back and forth in the OT forum. Frankly, I do not wish to see the libraries overflowing with the same. But if the admins and mods see no problem with it then so be it. It is, afterall, THEIR site. Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica

OK, I can see your point on the respect of others. But You can't please everyone, so how do you know if people are like you or not till you do something that a person says: " i don't like that or it offends me." Well anyway I agree with you on the fact that a lot of the banter is rather immature.

senjin, I think we are much more in agreement than not on this point. ;) aprilrosanina, I'd go ahead and post them. They are definitely more respectful than the library offering that prompted this thread. You make your point without insulting those with an opposing view. THAT is showing respect. THAT is accepting responsibility while exercising your right to speak your opinion. Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica

I specially like the "give peace a chance" T shirt. I can see no problem in posting them, since they don't attack or demean anyone. On the other hand, there might be people who'd get offended. These are people that feel offended every time you dare to voice an opinion different from theirs. They could then start a flame of sorts by posting even more outrageous "free stuff". But if things go this way, I trust the moderators to step in, then. Compiler

Personally, it is stupid and immature no matter which side of the coin is being criticized. The item in question wasn't exactly in good taste, but IMHO posting freebies in a sneering counter-gesture is just as immature. I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if the t-shirt texture called Bush some despicable name or somesuch, most of the complainers in this thread would prolly be giggling and downloading, and not demanding the removal of the item. I'm not saying all this to stir up a troll, but to raise a valid point: If you're going to complain, please do so fairly, and not use it as a soapbox to push your own views instead. Some in this thread have been quite noble about this (and I thank them profusely), but I really wonder about the rest... there's a whole OT Forum available if you're in such a hurry to proclaim your politics. /P

"I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if the t-shirt texture called Bush some despicable name or somesuch, most of the complainers in this thread would prolly be giggling and downloading, and not demanding the removal of the item." Then you'd loose. At least as far as I'm concerned. The point I see here is just "I wish you'd discuss these things in the OT forum and do not try to sneak the debate in the free stuff area". And this opinion stands whatever the message is. For instance the T shirt "texture" which was posted today and states "you don't have to love Bush to love America". I did not download it and I'm just as uncomfortable with it as I was with the "free stuff post" that started this thread. But then again, it's just my opinion, the opinion that really matters is that of the moderators, not mine. Besides, I can't see anyone in this thread asking for the removal of any free stuff, and I certainly wouldn't have : "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll fight to let you have the right to say it" Voltaire

The item in question wasn't exactly in good taste, but IMHO posting freebies in a sneering counter-gesture is just as immature.<<< Which is why I did not believe the original "offering" should stay. Counter posts were sure to follow. Yes, I admit it, I thought it should have been pulled. I simply thought an item "flipping the bird" at those with an opposing view was insulting, immature and not the sort of item we needed to start filling up the libraries with. >>>I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if the t-shirt texture called Bush some despicable name or somesuch, most of the complainers in this thread would prolly be giggling and downloading, and not demanding the removal of the item.<<< Okay, okay. But I'll only take $32,995. You see, you're wrong. Frankly, I don't care what childish, immature comments, remarks, names, philosophies, propaganda, rhetoric or BS one wishes to spew in OT. It is already filled with such drivel and I can easily just ignore it by not going in there or by simply breezing by any threads started by any one of about thirty or so people. The libraries are a bit different. There is a "nudity" flag, but I see no "stupid" flag or "insulting" flag. I like to see what new items the artists have created and offered for use here. I have found all sorts of useful items in the libraries. I just don't think the members here should have to accept the OT mentality in the libraries. That's all. Since it is obvious that at least a few are not going to show any respect for fellow members with an opposing view I would have thought the admins or mods would have. Believe me, Peng, this can get out of control and get very ugly very fast. BTW, I voted for Bush. Will you be sending that $32,995 by certified check or should I send you my PayPal address? ;-) Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica

Am I wrong? Some yahoo (more than one yahoo actually) has posted their protests as well, and the download counts are climbing in either case (I did say "most", not "all"... please keep that in mind before pronouncing wrongness :) ) Like I said - it's stupid an immature in either case, and I agree with the original poster, and with you, Cas... the original offering is immature and stupid, as are the "responses". Question is, what will the PTB do about it? /P

I take it then that I shouldn't be waiting for that $32,995? The missus will be mightily disappointed. ;) Actually, Peng, I think we're more in agreement than not. Probably most of us here are. It is already to the point in OT where you can't start a thread on a totally unrelated subject, such as science fiction, without someone having to shove their political agenda in your face. I would just like to see such disrespectful and unsocialable behavior kept out of the libraries... from all sides. Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica