From what I've gleaned from my friend it would appear that since times are tough for Corel there is a good chance they would sell Bryce to put something back in the coffers, and I think this would be more likely since at present they don't appear to have any future plans for Bryce. The patch for Bryce 5 was the last work to be done on the program and since many of the developers were laid off last summer I don't think any more work was completed for a Bryce 6. Also there didn't appear to be any developers brought in from outside the company to continue work on Bryce, this would have cost a fortune to do anyway and I don't think Corel have the finances for that at the moment. From everything my mate has told me it would appear that the developers of Bryce were/are as dedicated to the program as we are, but because times are very hard economically for Corel they had to let the developers go and as Bryce is not included in Corel's future plans, no more work is being done on it. Folk who have an interest in aquiring Bryce basically have a similar problem as Corel itself, the venture capital isn't there, and there's another point, many people would like to own Bryce the name but not Bryce the program and we should all be careful about who we choose to trust with the use of our money to develop Bryce. One thing I was warned about was that putting money into buying Bryce would have to be done as an investment program with all the contracts etc. that accompany such an action, then we would have the assured knowledge of what we would be getting in return otherwise we could end up throwing good money after bad and not get the program we want in return. This brings me back to a point I made earlier and that is that we would need someone trustworthy to organise this and it would be asking a lot of someone to do this. I hope this has answered some of peoples questions and if there is anything else anyone would like to know either write here or IM me. I'll also put this in a new thread to keep everyone informed. Cheers Cat

To sum up the previous discussions: They had a program that has "hundreds of thousands" of registered users. They dropped that in favour of office stuff where Microsoft dominates the market. Talk about stupid business decisions. Otherwise, I agree with you. I wouldn't want somebody taking the name and creating a silly little program that wouldn't be able to do half as much half as well as our Bryce. OTOH, are you talking about some kind of investment fund or what? That would be very difficult to organise, given that even a relatively small group of Bryce users like us here is scattered over at least three continents.

Yeah...Times are real tough and money is even tighter,I have tried drumming up Financial support thru a few folks and I keep getting the same response ....Maybe in 6-8 months if things get better Market wise...I am and still trying,but Like Doc says 1-1.5 million is not just Pocket change,Then after aquiring Bryce you would have to HIRE the Developers back then start from scratch so maybe 2 million might cover it...I hope and Pray that Bryce's Future isnt dead but the only thing that will help is MONEY....Just say Bryce is purchased and they start Developeing a newer and improved Bryce which would take advantage of a newer Rendering engine OR able to export Entire scenes to outside Rendering Programs like RENDERMAN then I can see Bryce over taking the 3D worlds best programs...I will always use Bryce just because it is fun and I can put all of my scenes together in another program and Import into Bryce I mean we see it all of the time...Rendered in Bryce...Even if I get a job in the gaming industry I will use Bryce for a ton of stuff...

I think there won't be any money for anything while this war is going on and depending on how much the war costs in the long run there might be no money around for a long time. As for someone buying Bryce for it's name, I would not buy it if it changed so much that it looked and acted nothing like Bryce, and I really think that if this is what anyone has in mind they should consider how many Brycers would update. Cat

Having done almost too much work with venture capital guys the last few years... 1. The registered user base is a HUGE plus...a readily defined initial market is key to someone wanting to invest. 2. The product history and stability is a plus. It means that there are folks who know it out there and developers would be easier to come by for the platform. 3. War economy acutally creates an environment where some guys, some mind you, realize the time to invest is NOW. Waiting a few months for things to stabalize means you're part of the rush, not a leading edge thinker. 4. Venture money might NOT be interested in a shared investement plan with the user community because it would dilute their return...on the other hand it might allow them to get in with less money invested AND would be a huge marketing tool in the release of the new product by the new company. The deal could be structured to a VC's advantage that way but it wouldn't be as attractive for the "mom and pop" investor. 5. The down side as I see it is leadership. Venture guys invest in management teams. The product is right, the market is right, it will take the right management for venture money to be interested. I've seen VC's close down one company because the product was wrong and move the entire management team to another company in their portfolio where the product was right. I think if the right team was wanting and willing to take it on...the money could be found. That's my two cents...which you can invest anyway you'd like.

People who are interested in Bryce should perhaps contact Corel now, there is a good chance they would be open to discussing the sale of the program. At least from what you say Claymor it may be a good time to get that all important financing. Cat

Thanks for the update catlin mc. Times like this I really wish I had any real head for figures and business. Fingers and toes crossed! Cheers!

Money it all comes down to it...I will try and help anyway i can...

Attached Link: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/24/corel_030324

Did you see how much Microsoft lost on Corel?

I'd be glad to do whatever I can to help. At the moment, I don't know any good securities lawyers, but there are ways of doing this and I'll be taking a new job in a few weeks where I can ask around. Lets see what Mo turns up. I can't think of a better person to take Bryce to the next level.

I was just talking to an investor about purchasing Bryce. The big question is whether the same money would be better spent adding Bryce's key features to MojoWorld.

Having worked on both, I can tell you that MojoWorld is much better designed and implemented, under the hood. ;-)

Since MojoWorld embodies tomorrow's technology and Bryce yesterday's, it probably makes more sense to develop MojoWorld further.

"We'll see." This guy (who is Clay Hagebusch's boss--thank you very much for the tip, Clay!) seems like he's for real, and may be able to come up with some real $$.

The main downside: MojoWorld will never have Bryce's UI. What do you all think of that?

-Mo

At some point, I can see a blending of the two programs if you get it. I am very partial to the Bryce interface though. Its got a wonderful entry level look and feel to it. I agree that MW has more advanced programming to it. The terrain and texture generators are superior in MW. Using OpenGL is also a good thing. The downside is the complexity of the MW interface. Also, being able to compose a scene on a smaller scale such as Bryce is very convenient. I wouldn't want to lose the ability to import mesh and arrange the scenes like Bryce offers at the moment. And the lighting lab in Bryce is probably the main reason I still use it. Would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

The UI is one of the things about Bryce that I love. I find it very intuitive and easy to use, whereas with Mojoworld I feel a bit lost. Perhaps fluency would come with frequent use but I think the Bryce interface beats all other apps hands down and I'd miss it. 8( Cat

Well DOC I like Bryce's ease of use and the Lighting also the DTE and the Terrain editor are superb,From what I can see Mojoworld is going to put off the NEW user because of its complexity to use and the learning curve(Of course I havent had it on my system since the early stages so there might be major changes from when I used MojoWorld)....BUT...If you could put all of the features of Bryce RE:Lightlab,Treelab,DTE,Libraries,Picture editor And the abilities to import and export as Object format and for the advanced user the ability to develope PLUGINS for Mojoworld then I can see most of the Hardcore users changeing to Mojoworld...like I have said before I will use Bryce because of its great features and I will keep Making things in other programs and importing into Bryce and I will help in anyway to get Bryce moving along its destined path and if it is to merge with Mojoworld then that would be fine...Hey DOC can I beta-test again?Especially if they do merge together?

And why wouldnt you be able to make a special UI like bryces and have it as a preset?And also have the default UI for Mojoworld?

Sorry, I can't think of another UI. It's the main reason why I continue to work with Bryce. Is it so difficult to maintain both options? Stefano

... is a major point for most people of the current user base. And as others have written before: Mojo does have the better architecture, but their approach requires much more learning and the learning curve is steeper. Actually I'm not hoping for investors, but for a release as open source. That would allow to integrate the cool parts of it into other 3D programs (I absolutely love the texture engine...), to fix bugs and to save it's long time survival. Investors might use just the parts they are interested in and dispose the rest of it in some dusty place... Folks, this is really sad. Maybe I should work out a Bryce skin for Cinema... Klaus

Hey Doc, I'm with ya whatever you do. I still can't think of anyone better to get a hold of Bryce, I'd love to see Bryce and MojoWorld work together, here are a couple of my concerns with it. We would need two different types of documents or workspaces, one a World level where you take all the power of MojoWorld and also a level where you work with a small area building a scene just like you did in Bryce. You'd still use the power of MojoWorld but on a much smaller scale. Might be implemented as a third type of terrain (Terrain, Sym Lat and Mojo or something). I think users would still want the functionality of Bryce's TE but also the amazing Fractals you've come up with. Another area would be the DTE, I know it's horrible implemented and somewhat designed but here again you'd need two options. I don't think many would upgrade to a new version if we lost all of the great textures out there now especially Jonathan's and Tony Lynch's and/or other product developers based on the DTE. What I imagine here would be another button next to the Picture Texture and Procedural Texture dots, this would be Bryce Classic or DTE Texture while MojoWorld Procedural would be the default. As for a UI redesign I think that may have to happen somewhat, but It wouldn't be to hard to adjust to if it was just colors and what buttons look like, but still having tools work mostly the same way. Things like the Track Ball, the rotate, scale and translate tools, things of those nature would have to work the same way. Over all I'm willing to adapt to a new program if Bryce must die, but I don't think that would have to happen. One more thing, have you thought about having a upgrade path from current Bryce users to Mojoworld, this would get more money for you guys to be able to get and work on Bryce as well as starting to get the users into the mindset of MojoWorld so the learning curve wouldn't need to be as steep when and if you combined implemented MojoWorld and Bryce together. Good luck and keep us updated, let us know if we can do anything and if you'd like us to write Corel what should we say? I don't want to end up hurting this deal by saying something wrong.

Well, I do like the Bryce interface. But to be able to continue to use all my Bryce stuff plus add the power of Mojoworld, I could learn a new interface. So, if that is the way it has to go then lets do it. Simply put, I love Bryce and have worked in it for years. I would hate to lose all that I have if I didn't have to. Jesterhawk

I personally love the Bryce interface. It's an easy, out of the box--no instructions needed--userfriendly interface. I demonstrated to the computer teachers how easy Bryce was to use (as some of our high school students are not as computer savy as others) and the school bought 5 copies. I am planing on using Bryce for the graphics and animations for my computer game (along with some posers stuff of course). i just tried the demo of Mojo World, and have now descided to find and read the documentation, because i found it (mojo world) very complicated. It is not user friendly (although this might change after I read the manual) I have been using Bryce since the demo of version 2 came out. I have used Bryce 2 to create a 6 minute film for my grade 12 history project (roughly 80 + hours of frame by frame shots) and Bryce 5 to create a 2 minute WWI film for a multimedia cd (a work in progress) on the history of flight. I plan on spending the $550 Canadian to purchase a new version of Bryce (so long as my computer can run it), but I do not want Bryce to loose it's simple out of the box ease of use. If the interface changes to incorporate new features--fine, but if i have to spend days reading the manual to create a simple scene...then i will be angry. Please remember: Bryce is an amazing program that can do Great things, but was made for simple people. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, David :)

"Made for simple people." I like that! (Not sure if everyone else would, though.) >;^)

Craig and I just plotted what we'd like to do should we land Bryce:

1. Add as much of MojoWorld's functionality as is practical to Bryce for version 6.0.

2. Make MojoWorld load and render Bryce scene files, and employ some or all of the Bryce editors as plug-ins to MW.

3. If we owned the Bryce brand, we could put the Bryce interface on the MojoWorld engine, which would make many people happy. :-)

We'd probably keep a version of MojoWorld more or less as-is, and call it Bryce Pro or something like that.

MojoWorld is more at a professional product than Bryce. The MW interface is better than Bryce's (we think) for workflow, once you've learned it.

Bryce has a more visual interface, and one that invites you to play and learn.

Hmm. It sure would be nice to have one program that contained the best of both worlds...

Much to think on. It all depends on where Corel goes from here, methinks.

Keep your thoughts coming--they are very helpful!

-Mo

What you have proposed here Doc sounds much more acceptable and having the Bryce editors as plugins would work just fine I think. As you say Bryce has a visual interface and as Pedrith said is good for simple people, but some people have problems with a complex wordy interface for reasons like dyslexia, and some of us simply have a visually inclined brain. My partner and I are planning on buying Maya soon so I wouldn't say I was scared of higher end apps, it's just that Bryce has always been a labour of love and it's ease of use keeps me coming back. It also works better than taking anti-depressants. 8) Cheers Cat

Hey Doc... Can I play and be a beta-tester(I am thinking positively) I feel the Power starting to build.... We will be successful I just know it...

and happiness abounds around the Bryce comunity...........8)

catlin, I think you'll find Maya fairly easy to adat to from Bryce, the interface is similar and so are the tools just a hell of a lot more to it. Texturing will take a lot to get used to. Doc that sounds like an excellent plan so far. What I'd really like to see is dynamics (particle, gravity, etc).

Now this seems really great, Doc! S.

Aldaron I got the Maya demo and I really love the ease with which you can manipulate the primatives but you are right about the texturing, at the moment I don't have a clue. Oh well, lots and lots of practice to do. 8) Cat

I am in total agreement with the interface assessment. I work visually, both as a photographer, pen & ink or CG'r. Bryce's visual interface really works for me. so far Doc, you're sounding better to me (was worried after that UI comment!) One other thing, I take major advantage of the on screen render. Don't want to trade that for a render to disk only style crunch. Both please.

Not to worry--MojoWorld always renders to the screen as well as the disk, no matter what the resolution. :-)

The more you say Doc the more relieved I feel. We all want a better, faster Bryce and some consessions would have to be made I guess, but we also want to retain some of the things that have kept us with this program from the start. Please keep us informed Doc on what's happenning your end. Cat

Please keep us informed,And especially if you need any help and i mean any help at all...

Attached Link: http://e-onsoftware.com/survey/

Has anyone else seen this? Interesting ...

I'm currently pretty much a casual hobbyist, I'm not exactly swimming in cash, and I've always had an uneasy relationship with the concept of research. Taking all the previous into consideration, I'm hoping that if this Bryce-Mojo thing comes to pass it will still be cheap, slacker-appealing and utterly familiar! :o) [applauds Doc Mojo, and Catlin for sending me toward the Light ;o)]

Yes, we who are the brains behind MojoWorld are pretty research-geeky. :-)

We're designing a simpler $99 version of MojoWorld right now. Something much more WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) with a lot of power to create, but not a lot of complication and hideous numbers.

You'll get to be the judge of how we did when it comes out. ;-)

Not to worry, Waxradpole, I'm a big believer in getting maximal technology into the hands of our users, at a minimal price. It's just too much fun, you see...

-Mo

:Bookmarking:

Well I am also a hobbyist. I actually work as an design engineer for an aerospace firm. I use bryce as a passionate artsy but I can def undertand research-geeky. I have been drawing, painting and photographing for most of my life. I mention this to give a bit of insight into how I think. Maybe others will agree or see some aspects in themselves. When I shoot a photo of a model, I usually do not spend spend great amounts of time working the settings - this would kill any sense of immediacy/spontanaity. Other times I do take advantage of all the manual control power of my camera. What I want to say is that 90% of the time i work visiually and the other 10% I work technically. I do appreciate the abilty to do both! My camera must have that capabilty to do both. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise. As I have stated before, this is also how I treat bryce, as a virtual photographer. And as such, it must have the same capabilies to suit my work style (visual mostly, but occasionally technical.) This is why i am so UI sensitive.

Yes I also saw that question when I filled out the survey and it has me wondering if VUE is in the hunt to get Bryce...Gosh ya got ta luv competition...

Very much obliged, Mojo sir! :o) I look forward to getting my mitts on those "loved-user concessions" (Real World Bryce 4-inspired humor, tried to resist but couldn't! [sheepish grin]) At 99ish bucks, I can easily see a new addition to my meager software collection happening! - Gleeful Wax P.S. to quote an old car ad, "Ve LIKE to heff fun!"

bookmark

Ok, I moved this post to another thread about the future of Bryce to here to add some thoughts on what the appeal of Bryce is IMO, and where it could go: There is something very natural about the Bryce UI, and after Poser, I would think its one of the most popular and used 3D apps with members of this site. The quality of the images posted can be extremely varied, from newbie to pro, but it's testatment to Bryce's 'easy to make a relatively competent picture quick' that encourages new users to at least try! It's also true to say (as before) that Bryce obviously has that 'all round' appeal that allows the user to attempt every kind of imagery and subject matter - it's far from just a landscape app, which from what I know/have seen, Mojoworld is. There is a definte X factor to Bryce, and it would be a shame or even commercially foolish to mess with it's most popular features. If someone is truly willing to take it on, and further it's development, the first thing they should do, is consult the community(s) on everything that Bryce IS and COULD be, and then decide how much of the points can or should be addressed for version 5.5 or 6 and so on. So Doc Mojo! - Would it be an idea to start another nice new thread which sets out to purely state what people do and don't want to see Bryce become!?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=1168234

Good idea, Kromekat. Bring it on! -Mo