Yes, everyone just loves to look at those magazine fashion models in Poser, the big breasted, overendowed pinup girls and all that stuff...glam fashion clothes, spiked heels that no one could possibly wear...etc etc... How about someone that has the talent to design REAL WORLD stuff...worn out faded jeans with grass stains, drooly old tshirts, skin textures that look like people that just woke up...without the concrete makeup...hair that hasn't been washed in 2 weeks...grimey smelly people, casual real world people.... Folks that you see when walking down the street in downtown Des Moines, or Pittsburg, or Portland Maine...not downtown Beverly Hills on oscar night. People that look like they just got off a shift in a hot factory in Gary Indiana... Real bker looking people...there is nothing more weird to me than seeing glam Vic 3 with the fashion model face paint riding the DAZ motorcycle with stilletto heels :) What say you designers. Isn't it about time to get real??? I suppose fantasy is good to the fact it removes us from the everyday tedious real world boredom, and real world problems, but I, for one, would love to do some real world images. If you look at some of the work of the greatest photographers, it is work showing people living their real lives...the emotion of a mother that has 4 kids and is on welfare, people sitting on their front porch in appalachia...happy faces at weddings...grief at a funeral, or in wartime.... I have visions of this type of creations...but do not have the talent to create them..I'm learning...but the road is sooooo long.I may be in a casket before I get to the needed level.... So, I beg of you...do an old man a favor in his last remaining years on Earth...do some real world stuff... Thanks...

I would vote with my pocketbook for that. I would love the designers to show some imagination and provide something other than the same old stuff week after week. We real world people may not be the majority here, but we are a market. And many thanks to Steve of PoserWorld for being one vendor who is responsive to this need. And to Ernyoka1 a.k.a. TrekkieGrrrl for her efforts in this direction. And to a few others who provide a mix of products which is greatly appreciated. It would be nice to see more diversity in the Marketplace. I'm not saying there should be no more fantasy - s.f. - kinky stuff, but there is so much of that and so little of normal looking outfits. We're not all super models and we don't all wear stilettos and bikinis to work. Give us a break. I don't know...I'm to the point of giving up this hobby. It's so time consuming to dig past all the fetish gear and find something taht I can actually use. I'm not asking for a lot...just a little something for someone who isn't 20 and isn't perfect in face or body, someone who doesn't spend life staring at the sky but actually has work and problems and enjoyments beyond hacking the head off the odd barbarian. Not so very much to ask for. But too much, apparently.

Attached Link: http://www.baument.com/

That's a great idea for the cars. Having a pick up truck that looks like it has actually hauled something would be a nice idea. In my neighborhood, most of the cars have little crushed in areas because of accidents. People seem to have a fear and unnatural anger toward heavier people, but we do exist and we outnumber the ultra thin set. Problem is, I could buy Betsy by Dalinese, but then what would I find to dress her in? Steve from PoserWorld has a few clothes for the larger women but there's not much. The prejudices around here are pretty sad to view. I think you're right. The community isn't ready for reality.

Don't want to sway too far from the original post ...but we live in a fantasy world...the way people live, look..everything is glamorized...much of what we see and hear are all glitzed over...even the war coverage...yes, tons of reporters, but, believe me, we're not seeing even 5% of what is really happening. A lot of reality comes more to the fore as you gain in years, I think, at least if you have more than tunnel vision...when I was younger, I had more of an adventerous life...looked at things much shallower..didn't really SEE everything and avoided anything that would be a hassle or become a problem. As I'm getting older, kids and all that...grown up kids now, I seem to see and feel things more deeply...think about stuff that I didn't think about before...politics, life, etc..but at a different depth...more inward.

I suspect it's a generational thing. 20-somethings are either full-flowered idealists or freshly-shattered idealists. Thus they prefer either 100% perfection or 100% apocalyptic devastation. Us wrinkly folks have gone beyond both the idealism and the cynicism, so we don't mind looking at plain old reality.

Yes, I suppose you're right. I have to admit that being an older woman in a youth obsessed world is often depressing. And yet I wouldn't want to be young again. I've no interest in plastic surgery or botox injections. I find real life more amazing than any fiction. And I'd like to be celebrate that amazing thing that is real life. I guess I'm going to have to stick to writing because it's difficult for me to do that in the graphics given current resources. Being old isn't my problem. Being ignored is.

Sounds like this post is being occupied by the "wrinkled ones"! :) Being an old person myself, I heartily second Dave-so and Dialyn and I think ockham hit it right on the head. It seems like a lot of the people who create the images and spend money on these products want to "escape" from a world that has become too unpleasant and too confusing....especially for the young ones who may have grown up in over protective environments with their every request provided. Then they leave home and find out that life really doesn't "owe us" and that "jobs" are just that. They come home at night and try to recreate the fantasy world they grew up watching on TV, or express their disillusionment by creating apocalyptic scenes. I would guess the vendors are simply providing what the "mass market" will buy. Those of us who want to recreate our memories of a simpler time are left to hope that a few of the vendors will be willing to accommodate us :)

Alot of style is really just achieved with the texture /trans maps. The right map canmake any short a old T-Shirt, battle armour, vest, etc. Meshes are just surfaces. Unless it is a sc-fi/Fantasy battle thong or something, alot of Real WOrld stuff is just textures and morphs. Alot of fire morphs can easily make stuff loose and such.

okay....stormi and dalinese put out a very nice "wrinkled" package...the golden girls. how many of you bought them? i really don't much think the vendors are out to accomodate anyone. i think they are out to make money. if they weren't, they'd be more posting stuff to freestuff. and, how often do you see any reknowned vendors, with the exception of ecstasy, and traveller, giving anything away. i doubt, seriously, that anton will jump on making clothing for "hall monitor mike"...with pants up almost to his breasts, a pocket protector, and, wing tipped shoes. and, ya think jim burton will jump on a new clothing line....vicki, overweight, going on fifty, and, cleaning up old folks in a nursing home????...replete with thick soled white shoes? how about some clothing for a subway driver in chicago, at 4:00 a.m...is this really a MONEY MAKER???? this community has changed, last couple of years. don't expect anything too real, anymore. unless, of course, you can pay for it as a "specialty" item.

I purchased the "Golden Girls" and the "Century" package as well. I also purchased the Zeta studios textures and Syyd's Dragonnesa and Merlin. In fact, I think I've purchased every product of "older people" and clothing that matches. Vendors do create to make money. They wouldn't be in the business if they didn't make a buck. And they create what they think the majority of the people want. Since that seems to be "young", "perfect skin", "tube tops", "bikini's" and clothing that would only be worn by an amazon in a forest, that's what they make. Frankly, I think Anton should jump on clothing for "hall monitor mike"!! In fact it sounds like a perfect character product for Beth at Capsces! And why not clothing for Viki going on 50....or plump! Dalinese created a lovely heavy set woman in the person of Betsy. I just got her. In fact I would buy every one of the things you mention. The vendors who have chosen to ignore this market may be surpised at how many of these "unglamorous" things would sell if they gave it a shot. People buy what's "new" and "unique" and not being made by 100 vendors. Take a look at the 40's style hair and dress. Seems like it was selling pretty well.....certainly as well as "tube top and bikini #500".

I bought the Golden Girls and Half Century Club. I'd buy Betsy if there was a way to have clothes for her. I have Gertrude and Frank also. And I've used Bertha. Yeah, I'd buy diverse characters...I'm not wedded to the "young and beautiful is all there is" philosophy. And I know some lovely ladies in their 80's that would be deeply offended at your idea of what an older woman looks like. They are independent, living alone (or with significant others), and travel extensively through the world and I wish I had half their energy. If you get out of the virtual never never land of fantasy once in awhile, you find some awfull interesting and lively older people are out there.

dalinese is one of my favorite artists, here. she's on my wish list. sometimes, i think people just get "stuck on stupid". people buy the "flavor of the week"...who's hot in the market, at any given time. the beta testers, and friends, make sure that our galleries are filled with images of stuff soon to appear in the market place. then, friends of the marketeer, comment on how wonderful that thing for sale is....how beautiful, what a piece of ART, etc. and, when viewers see how many comments this new item gets..heyas...they think...wow...i could be another royo wannabee, if i just have this thing/texture/background. easy marketing. me, well, i live in the real world. i'd lie if i said i didn't make some money off of "soft" porn. so...hey, now, how about those morphing clothes that can go from prim and proper...to on the floor at the foot of the bed/toilet/campsite/xerox machine...ya get my drift???

dialyn wrote: I'd buy Betsy if there was a way to have clothes for her. yeah, betsy could be real hot. i like her too. she is the MOST normal poser character i have seen.

Attached Link: V3 Morph Expansion Pak 1

Now to throw her in those old scruffy sweats with sandals falling off... Actually my favorite all time look... Rollers, no makeup, shorts with rolled down support hose, and black slip on shoes...with holes in the toes... I've always wondered what the high fashion folk looked like when they roll out of bed in the morning...I betcha some of them are just downright scary looking :) Although some preople would look sexy wearing just about anything, or nothing ;)

There is a roller-set hairdo here in the Marketplace somehwere. Think it is called "Real Curls" or something

How about the attractive sight of older gentleman in plaid pink shorts, black knee socks, and sandels. Tummy pushing over the waist of the shorts. Bright yellow polo shirt. Thick glasses with black frames. A cigar drooping out from under a yellow stained mustache. There was one of these charmers at the bus stop today. Men love to make fun of older women. Some of them need to look in the mirror.

I didn't know you took my picture LOL

Yup that's Erynoka1's roller hair. I think it's designed for V3, but can be used on V2 as well. I think the "high fashion folks" are pretty scarry in the a.m. I think they cover themselves and their skinny bodies with those beauty masks, mud packets and so forth. Must be pretty spooky to look at...a bit like that zombie at DAZ :)

Nah pretty people are always pretty...just in a different way. :)

You must be talking about "real pretty" Anton.....not "fashion model pretty" :)

quote from the roller hair product description: It's time to say goodbye to the Perfect Poser Plastic: Step into the Real World with these 2 hairdos for Victoria We have another product for the Real World folks :)

Prpefessional models are always pretty. They are chossen on how they look without make-up. They have to interview with a "clean" face.

So that's your only criteria for beauty. Skin deep. How very sad.

Huh? Dialyn did you insult me? What was that for?

I dunno. I grabbed the golden girls and century club too. Hard to dress them, my Tailor skills are a bit lacking. Love them though. But, darn, I enjoy the pretty Vicky's and currently am enjoying the tiny waist and delicate look of Aiko (V3 seems to have such a fat waist after I've been playing with Aiko. LOL). I also love the pretty clothes, the fantasy and sci fi stuff. Goth's not for me though. And I'm 59. So I guess the need for 'reality' stuff doesn't necessarily come with age. But my favorite stuff when I really search my soul is the animals and of course the fun stuff. Housemouse and Scurmudgeon and Lowen and the Plant Pixies and D-Bot. Love that D-Bot.

I love sci-fi stuff...not into fantasy much...and I actually love all the Vicky stuff....and even some of the cutesy stuff...BUT.... I have HUGE political underpinnings. I NEED to express myself politically...I want to do images of poor, neglected people...I want to do images of poor, defenseless people...I want to do images of war torn people...down troden, lifeless people... Perhaps I have a bit of a negative side, but I don't only see the peaches and cream..thus...the thrust of my original message in this thread :)

Odd, the way each one of us uses art for expression. I worked in a woman's shelter as full time staff until we lost our finding a year ago, and still do volunteer work there. I saw all of the poor, defenseless, neglected, beat up, worn down people I could hanndle, and when the day was over I came home and created my own virtual worlds. I filled them with kindness and magic and fantasy, and an affinity with nature. I'll take the peaches and cream anyday in a virtual world..... I see enough inhumanity and the real world by turning on the television, or walking down the street. But that's what makes us all individuals, isn't it? :))

Hi Judith...all, and that's why I need to show it...because there are tons of folks that don't see it...or don't care to see it... The reason for your shelter losing its funding...and many people being cast out in the cold... Its the reason we are not seeing bodies being blown apart in Iraq...believe me, they're there...but as a society, we don't want to see that stuff...perhaps if we ignore it or don't see it, it will go away... But it doesn't. I'm the same way tho when it comes to work...I don't want to think about it, see it, or do anything that even remotely looks like it when I'm on my own time...I do this stuff :) Anyway, enough of the heavy banter...I think we're all here for some relaxation and peace of mind...sorry to get off on a depressing note.

I administer employment and training programs, so I understand what judith means :) Sorry to hear about the shelter's funding, judith. Hopefully those types of services will regain importance in the eyes of those who decide how our tax dollars are used. I have a rural background and love the plants and sets that Transpond has created. When I do fantasy scenes, I prefer to work with the characters like Scurmudgeon, hobbits,gobbles, house mouse, toon cat and the like. For me, "real people" and fantasy don't work, unless there's an historical connection. That's why I personally don't care for "nekkid vikies in temples" :) The ideas I have lean towards celebrating people who have made a positive contribution, humorous people, historical people and things/people I remember from my childhood.

Thank you very much Sandy!

Chill a bit will you dialyn :) You've made a bit of a "broad generalization" when you speak of ".....beauty in their ordinary lives that are too lowly for all of you to see". I suspect judith has seen much of that beauty in her work at the women's shelter and I certainly think Dave-So's comments suggest that he has as well. I know I certainly have. I didn't get to where I am as a result of just sitting in a classroom. I suspect I've been around more blocks than most. So unless you've walked in that old man's moccasins, please don't pontificate as though you are the only one who can see the beauty of an ordinary life.

Yeah, well, sorry for feeling passionate about life. All this virtual stuff gets to me. I'm going off the forums. You all have a nice fantasy.

good night all... And yes...I have been around the block...have seen stuff no human should...and it blows my mind we all can't seem to get our act together here on Earth...even during a bit of evening conversation.

Dave - and all - this kind of thread is doing more for your country and for Poser art than ten US admin press conference, or two tonnes of NVIAT's. Those who think that the US is the land of flag-waving imperialists with no social conscience and Barbie doll tastes in art and expression oughta read this kind of thread more often. Whenever I hear anyone bad-mouthing american conscience or mentality, I refer to my experience of people whose opinions I read in threads like this one - "they've got a lot of thinking, feeling, expressive people over there, you know". If we can't get our act together, it will be no fault of yours, IMHO!!! Just a quick 0.2 Euro's worth from my side of the Atlantic ;o) And on the subject of clothing : post some pics, pleeeeze, modelers think in pictures, not words.

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=17978

By the way, I didn't mean that I was going off the forums forever (no one would get that lucky) but that I was going off the forums for last night. I have had jury duty all week, and trying to do that, and my job, has caused extreme exhaustion in me. And my apologies. It's not a major thing, though I made it sound so. I don't care if people do s.f. and fantasy and fetish and pinups and whatever...that's their choice and how they like to spend their time. It's not my thing but who cares? It's not as I am trying to earn a living doing this. I happen to think that there is a lot in the real world to explore and I am happy to find that the field is relatively clear of competition since I can't compete with any of the fine artists here. I don't want to escape the real world. I want to celebrate what beauty manages to bloom between the trash heaps. The vacuous ladies in their ornate robes don't speak a truth to me. I realized last night that was what was missing in all of this....in graphics, as in writing, I prefer what speaks a truth about life...not something that pretties it up and disguises it. There is great beauty in reality. The person who is beautiful to me is the little old lady in the walker who manages every day to get to the Senior Center to have her breakfast and play bingo with her friends...her courage is what is beautiful. Not some overpriced supermodel. But that's just me and I know that. Apologies for being human, tired, and my usual cranky self. Now I am off this thread, which is what I meant to say last night. Sigh.

Thanks for the link, rasputina! That's something I've been actively collecting lately, the 'non-Barbie' textures and characters. And yeah there needs to be more...average...use kinds of materials (Clothes for Betsy and the Dina Zoftig would be real nice, f'r instance....)

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=8699

I also think if poser wants more recognition other than just being a hobbyist tool, some real world stuff would help in that area. People could use poser for a lot more, but the objects to do so are really lacking.

Dave-So that is such a lovely render, very soulful features.

I've been eyeballing that V3natural skin product...did the price just go up today? Thought it was a couple of dollars less yesterday. Suppose if we convert the availabe V2 skin textures to V3...or could even use V2..but V3 is just so much more adjustible :) then we can at least have some older characters.... Now for the clothes and objects...Poserworld actually has some pretty good background photos, and now the texture club stuff is there.... I think the clothes are the big thing....

Dave in my pic above, that is what I did, I converted the Golden Girl texture to V3, I did Dragonessa too, but haven't tried it yet :)

Those are great Beth :) I love the Roxanne charicatures :)

Yep..those are looking good :)

Beth, what jeans are you using on Roxanne?