Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com/

Don't think we are done yet. This person asked my permission to post my work on her site and since she provided the link I thought I'd go have a look. Another place with hundreds of images. Just going through the Fairy section and saw many of Turtle's images, of which she is now aware, so thought maybe other's had their work posted without permission as well.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com/image%20in%20air/Artistes/artisteen.php

There is another website showing images. Not sure if anyone gave permission, I bet not. 84 images by Turtle, 94 images by linwhite, 22 by Laurie S and more.

Seems it really never stops. Thanks to one of our members for posting this link over at Faeriewylde.

OMG....this is outrageous. At least the visual presentation of the site is better than the website link that started this thread, but never-the-less it's just not right.

... And BTW BeatYourSoul, you anology is rediculous. The meer fact that it has a presents online does not mean you cant copy/download it at all. Regardless of a signmature or not. Try this one since it is more aplicable. Walk down any street and put your poster/artwork on a billboard or street post. Thats more like what you have here since renderosity has no insurance adjustment (and will not) for people stealing work posted on their site. Why would they!? Because it is pointless. Images, audio, video and text works will continue to be stolen/used without permission regardless of whether YOU think your safe or not. Im not defending anyone. Why would I? If you all think you have been screwed somehow and that you have rights to post your work and not have it copied, your the ones who are wrong. This situation proves my point. Whether the law is on your side or not, you can't prove the person posting these pics had actually stolen them at all. Just because you see them elsewhere dosent denote theft. Do you suddenly own the rights to the file extention? or the file size too? how about the 1's and 0's that make up the image? or is it just the way that you assembled those 1's and 0's ? I'm feeling less likely that some of you care mush for the solution. While I'll bet the rest of you are feeling pretty good your work was stolen and posted somwhere else other than here. You do what you can to make yourself feel good at the end of the day. I only hope I can clear a few heads into thinking that this is exactly what you should have expected.

"3ncryptabl3_lick, you are wrong! Following your premise, a printed book that someone buys is "in the public domain" and can therefore be used as if uncopyrighted. Incorrect. It is still copyrighted as you and your lawyer would soon find out if you provided the full text on a website or quoted parts without proper attributions."

Actually, you're both right to a degree. True your work doesn't become "public domain" but intellectual property displayed on the internet and the right to use them is still in infancy with regard to the public's knowledge of the law.
I doubt you'd find anyone who would see nothing wrong with transfering an entire book to his website but put up a graphic and next thing you know it's all over the net. It's simply not something that people are used to dealing with yet. Anyone can have a website for practically nothing and the first thing they do is put every flashing thing on it they can find because it's so easy.

I highly recommend placing distinct copyright wording over your entire image though when you publish them online in your galleries. Thank you Ravnheart for the psd file. I was at a community sidewalk "faire" sort of thing and a woman had boxes with tiles on the lids with artwork that I had seen elsewhere and I knew wasn't hers. I asked someone about them and she did have them put on the lids herself. It wouldn't surprise me if a few of the images had been from galleries like here at R'osity. A company at a very large and well known trade show in Las Vegas was describing where they got their images for their products and really stumbled around the explaination when I delved into the "do you have the copyright" question. I had such a hunch they were infringing I refused to deal with them. And just like the guy papyes mentioned, he got his material off the net and it's not like he or the woman I saw have a web host to keep them shut down. Sad but true. At least the web infringers are fairly easy to stop.

Image-in-Air has my complete permission. She's a very lovely person and posts here regularly. I would be 100% sure she has permission from the others, too. I never mind if people just ask...geeze. I always give permission if there's no porn on the site. (Just a personal preference on that.) I usually avoid discussions, like this, but since I seem to be involved in this one already......I've just got to say that as to whether it "feels good" to have your images used on a site without permission, the answer is "NO". It does, however, feel good with permission, as you realize that those people love art and have something so important in the murky on-line world....integrity. If the attitude is...."Expect to be ripped off, and I know it's really making you feel good", then I'd say that's about as clueless as one can get. I've never been protective, never even signed my images because I do them for the joy of it. It's also why I love to see the other images in this gallery. But I can tell you quite truthfully that seeing those images (mine and others) on that site like that didn't feel a bit good. Linda

I was wrong on this one, I had given sylia permission. but I never thought she would move my whole gallery there. She is a nice lady and always asks. We worked out a soluation, for her to delete some and ask me, for each picture. So if she has something of yours just tell her and she will take it down. but I think she has everyones ok on these. So I told Fly by night I didn't give permission and then when the woman wrote me I remembered her. Sorry Fly my IM. didn't get to you on time. So egg on my face. Leah

3ncryptabl3_lick - there's a difference between a legal right and the ability to enforce it. Yes, we do have the right to display our work and control how it is used. On the other hand, keeping that right is difficult. Unless we do what we can to enforce that right, we will lose it. Realistically, when I go walking down the street, I can't guarantee that someone won't try to kill me. I have the right to walk around where I want to, but I can't be 100% sure that I could stop someone from trying to kill me. That's why I pay my taxes for police officers. Billboards are out in public, and there's a reasonable expectation that they won't be defaced due to property laws. (Yes, there's grafitti idiots, but that's why we have police and neighborhood watches to guard against such things.) Why should we meekly surrender our rights just because it's the Internet? No, we'll never get 100% compliance with the law, but should we therefore let theft run rampant? (Sorry, ma'am, but since we haven't solved every burglery, we've given up trying to catch any burglars?)

bla bla bla ...mot of email lot of reaction and?

With all this going on you see something and just think it's the same as with all the others. But I am glad that this time it's ok.

Me wonders who hides behind the nickname "3ncryptabl3_lick". No gallery and those comments... But what is it about http://www.image-in-air3d.com/??? I recognized the site at once. It has a lot of objects for bryce, which where here posted in freestuff. I already downloaded some of it. I also have peeked once at the gallery (very short, you know how this is) thinking it was a community gallery like Poserpros or so, where people showcast their work. I never suspected that there maybe something wrong. OMG. Now I took a closer look. Please tell me that the images of Luciferino, Madame, Turtle and of all the other artists are there with their permission! I liked this site. No, it must be ok!? There are all the featured artists listed with the number of their images. Every image has the appropriate credits. There is even a most viewed statistic. It is ok, is it?

I just fired off a e-mail to them as well. This is 100% bull! We respect all the artists of Renderosity. We stand by you all!

"This isnt about what is right and what is wrong!" Um, yes, it is. Duh.

BekaVal Read mine and Lindas Post, this woman has our permission. She would not steal. nice Lady.

Err, the site 404's now... guess it's been taken care of (I hope?) /P

Thank you Turtle. This lightens up my view, even though it is already dark outside here.

BTW, I was talking about the http://www.arielsdreams.com site. Just wanted to make that clear

Man this is really something...:-), I know that everybody knows well how to download an image... and as turtle and linwhite say they gave authorization to expose their work... I wonder if they also allowed her to distribute/give away their work ... Did you guys read this in the left frame of the Gallery page...? ========================================================== http://www.image-in-air3d.com/image%20in%20air/Categorie/categorieen.php ========================================================== To "Save An Image", all you have to do is "Open It" and "Right Click" on it with the mouse. A window will open, choose "Save As", then choose the format that you desire the image to be saved in (.JPG, .BMP,.........etc). Now choose which folder on your hard drive you wish the file to be saved too. Finally, click on "Save". ==================================================== This person might be a very good person, but seems to encouraging people to download the images exposed... I don't see those instructions at Renderosity for instance... Just a thought... Images for the taking...!!!

If someone downloads an image and puts it in a folder on their harddrive without the original artists permission, it's theft IMHO. What more proof do you need? The password protection of the folders is designed to keep people from not seeing what's in them.....to hide the theft. You know......those who create browsers could stop this. Eliminating the "save as", "view source" "select all", "copy" and "print screen" "caching images to the temp folders" and "offline browsing" would go a long way to eliminating this problem. The only way an item could be obtained is through a legitimate download link created by the artist/page creator. Sure, I suppose someone could "hack" the page, but most of these people would be too lazy to try and figure it out. It would be nice if Microsoft and Netscape at least took it upon themselves to implement these changes. Tutorials and the like can be set up for download as easy as not. I can think of no legitimate reason for someone to save pages on the web other than to save a tutorial for later use. Other than that, they just want to steal something.

Yes, I read that too, just a minute ago, Maforno. It seems a bit unusual. But under the frame with the images is a copyright disclaimer. On the other hand, anyone can rightclick and save pics to his HD. This can be restricted by disabling the right click by programming.

yeah I saw the disclaimer too... but should't be more visible than the downloading instructions...? or at least in the same place...? Or Better yet... much better indeed... NO DOWNLOAD instructions and the copyright disclaimer in it's place...?

I think Sylvie (ImageInAir) was thinking of private and temporary desktop usage, and how many of us haven't done that....be honest. I'm sure she would remove those instructions, Marforno, if asked. But personally, I don't care if my images are used as wallpaper. If it brighten's someone's day and screen for a little while, then I'm only happy about it. Let's not confuse Sylvie with the commercial site with no permission....PLEASE!!! She asked permission...Ariel didn't. Linda

But personally, I don't care if my images are used as wallpaper. If it brighten's someone's day and screen for a little while, then I'm only happy about it. I have to totally agree with that Linda. LOL!

Yeah Linda... I agree there is a huge difference between the 2..., as I stated in my first posting about this it was just a thought ... as many others struggling in my mind since last night... The only Good thing about all this is... that I was distracted from my work (haven't done a thing in 24 hours...:-)) spending all this time looking at images in both places... And I have to say... I have seen WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL works... You guys are such a bunch of good artists..., think I will pay more attention to our good RO. Gallery from now on... peace to all (me goes back to work... :-)

Image-in-Air has my permission, nice gal, asked first and always includes links, credit and so on.

OK, Y'all... I think our work here is done. It's a 404. H:)

Yep...case closed. :O)

BekaVal I am new here. If my lack of a gallery precludes my innocent comments and subjects me to scrutiny then thats your porogative. xoconostle, DUH. this ISNT about what is right and what is wrong. We all know theft is wrong. Don't you? Or did you learn that here? This is about the 'actions' not the 'ideals'. Of which, we are all in agreement. What happened is wrong. BUT is it theft!? I say it isnt. The rest of you say it is. Are we all here to debate that? Am I defending theft? Am I belittling all who think that anything is safe online no matter what the law states? Wake up.

I REALLY hope that we don't start disabling the ability to save images from the galleries here. I have saved many excellent images from Renderosity to use as wallpaper, to study the techniques used, and simply to have and enjoy when I'm offline. Pirates will use Printscreen to get them anyway (as will I if that's the only way to save them for my own enjoyment). :) LOL circle, no one ever bothers to take any of my images either. ;) SnowS

3ncryptable3_lick, all I have to say is what was said already. There is nothing stopping me from performing any action whatsoever - murder, stealing, bribery, plagiarism, you name it. Ah, but there is something that exists in most people which acts to dissuade the pursuit of such actions. It's a built-in "empathy" which guides our actions for the good of our species, our close group, and ourselves (not always in that order) - usually denoted as conscience. As sentient beings, we have codified these built-in responses and actions as laws and rules. Therefore, just because one can do something, doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Just because most people don't have a sign on their door that says "tenants only - no trespassers" doesn't give one the right to enter their premises. Why? If you answer this, then you know why copying other people's artwork without permission and displaying without permission is wrong and illegal. BYS

Attached Link: http://www.arielsdreams.com/

SnowS: I was actually suggesting getting rid of the print screen function in the browser as well! :) Yes....it would be bit extreme, but eliminating those functions is one way to prevent this theft. I don't want to beat a dead horse, hogwarden, but FYI, Ariels Dreams is still there. The only difference is that now, in order to access the gallery, you have to have a password :) You can't see the thumbs without it, so there is no way to know what the images are behind the thumbs. There is, however a new disclaimer at the bottom of the page that states: "To have your tastefully created work staged here, please contact anthony.lang@arielsdreams.com. All art is displayed with the express written/emailed permission of the artist."

the only two sets in the gallery I see are Creations By Fatale: with a link here and Creations By Magician: link to a german site.

BekaVal, disabling right-click is no protection whatsoever if the downloader in question has almost any sort of graphics program. Most of them feature a screen capture function which can be set to start via hot keys. Or barring that, a simple print screen will do the trick. Basically copy-and-paste. There really is no sure-fire way to protect 100% of the time; though it may sound trite, where there's a will there's a way.

hmm... i can't even get to the site now... i'm curious though... can anyone verify for me that images were actually hosted on that site? i gather this to be the case after reading through this thread but really would like to confirm as i have yet to be able to determine where the b/w theft from my site is hailing from and i can guarantee i'm experiencing it based on reports and the way the pages are written... everyone who banded together on this to get things removed and to help look after fellow 'sity-ers, thank you!!! ~K.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

I'm Sylvie B., webmaster of Image-in-air3D. I'm really sorry that my site created so many debates:):) I clarify however that all the present artists on Image-in-air it are with their agreement. Besides, as a result of a mail which I received yesterday, I added this in front of the pages of every artist: Please, read the text at the bottom of each of page, concerning copyrights. I also added, to the already existing copyright, this: Rights of representation for the only purposes of personal and private consultation. " I think of having made the necessities to make understand that, in spite of I tell how to register images, this is possible only in the only purpose to have a beautiful bottom of personal screen.:)

Here we are, I understand perfectly your anxieties, but never I would allow to put creations of artists on my site without having asked for permission of their authors. I'm myself a creator of images 3d (SylvieB92 here, in Bryce and Poser galleries) and I would not love that somebody steals me my images.
Thank you to Linda and to Leah to have rectified this error:)
Warmly in all and... lol... it's very likely that I shall ask to other artists if they wish that I open them a gallery on Image-in-air3D, it in the future:):)
I'm above all a passionate person of 3D, I created this site only in the only purpose to make known this fantastic art in French through the creations of the best international artists. This without any lucrative purpose. On the contrary even, because this site costs me much money... but... when one loves one doesn't count isn't it???:)
And sorry for my bad English.
Kisses of France to all!:):)
Sylvie.

Mlevans, I know that there's no way to totally barr saving an image that is on the screen. It can only be made harder or more uncomfortable by disabling the right click. I'm with SnowSultan, hoping that will never happen. I think everybody saves from time to time artwork of other people to his HD to enjoy, to view them again or to learn from them. It would be a shame when this form of admiring and sharing of art will be destroyed because some people disuse it. It would not stop these people, because they will know how to circumvent protections. It would only annoy or discourage the upright people.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

Any manners, even by not writing this, everybody can register an image with IE which them lets know with a small window. And, openly, I don't see where is the evil to have a creation of artist in bottom of personal screen. I'm personally happy to know that my images please and are in homes of unknown people, on condition, naturally, that these is used only in this only purpose. I think very sincerely that, if one doesn't want that this happens, it's simply preferable not to post anything anywhere and to keep what one makes for oneself. On it, I close the discussion which, in my humble opinion, goes a little bit too much far for a case as mine where everything is made to limit damages. I made this site in a very honest way. There will be always critical spirits of any manners. And then, I'm sure that many authors of images 3D are very happy to find sites as mine which offer to them gracefully to present their works. Let us reflect a small moment about this, do you want? Because this is above all a recognition of the realized work. Although it is it, I don't have anything to me to blame in the way of which I made my site. And I still thank these fabulous artists who allow me to live my passion until the end. Besides, do you think that Renderosity, or quite other site of 3d all over the world known, accessible to all, proposing thousand images, doesn't allow, with IE or the other one, to download these images? Whoever, with a minimum of computer knowledge, is capable of making it. And, sincerely, if it's in a personal purpose, I don't see where is problem. For me, this debat is closed...:) Kisses:) Sylvie.

I just saw Fatale's images on their site and will post an IM to Fatale to make sure that he is aware that this is happening. Can I suggest that if you see someone's images on this site and they have not responded to this Thread - can you drop them a note to let them know! Thanks so much! The worst crime against an artist is theft of his/her artwork! ladynimue

Just sent an IM to Magician to let him know that his images are also featured on this site. ladynimue

http://www.arielsdreams.com/images/gallery/ while doing a gallery search - the only two Artist's Galleries I can find on the site are Fatale's and Magician SO hopefully all of your hard work paid off! ladynimue

Thanks, ladynimue :) just gotten your IM. They did contact me, and I did give them permission to display my images as long as they link to my store and gallery, which they did.. as long as they dont start selling any of my art (which I place here in r'osity for free fun), I'm fine with it.

Over the years I've given several people permission to display various images of mine. But I've had to tell them to PROMINENTLY say that the images are used by permission so the image police don't get on their case. Unfortunately the Image Police harrass them anyway. Folks, we have to be a little careful. Yes, there are abuses, but that's no excuse to presume guilt over innocence.

Thanks so much for responding Fatale - You know what a huge fan I am of your works and I am glad that there was no theft involved with your gallery.

---

I agree with you Spit - "no excuse to presume guilt over innocence" However in this case, since so many members Did Not give permission - I thought it wise to contact those Rosity Members whose images were still posted to the above mentioned site. I also stated in my message to the artists that if the artist Had Given Permission to disgrard the message. Better to be knowing than not! ladynimue

SylvieB, I don't think most of the discussion is about your site, but about the other one. Linda White cleared things up where you are concerned. Everyone now knows you ask before posting images. And thanks for clarifying the language on your site. I think that will be a big help :)

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

Thank you Sandoppe, I apreciate a lot your message:):)

Yesterday Anthony contact me and he asked me if he can post some images from me at his page and I could have a look in this gallery. Found only images from my friend Fatale in it at this time. I gave him the permission to do that. It seems that Anthony is a loyal man. I don't know what happened before till ladynimue send me a message (Sent 6/7 13:06). Magician

Not to excuse anyone or anything, but EVERY SINGLE IMAGE YOU VIEW ONLINE IS DOWNLOADED TO YOUR COMPUTER! If it wasn't you couldn't SEE it. Gee.... peeps.. no need to ban right clicks, print screen (not even possible) or anything else. The images are allready downloaded to your "temporary Internet Files" (I have no idea what it's called on a Mac but likely something similar) This does not allow you to USE those pictures of course, but if I see some great pic online NOTHING or NOONE can prevent me to use it as a desktop wallpaper if I choose to do so. Now I'm vain enough to only use me own images for my desktop L but in theory I could use any Rosity image as such. And noone would know. And I bet noone would REALLY care. IF they do so, the they should not post pictures online at all. Please let's not get carried away with paranoia. Some people download the pictures just becourse they want to look at something PRETTY! Why not feel flattered instead of pissed off? (Now I'm NOT talking about SELLING other people's stuff ir pretending to be the creator of it, mind you) But as long as people say where they've got it and provides a name/link I just don't see there's any harm done. On the contrary: Your art are being more widely known. Free advertizing so to speak. But that's just me. Prolly becourse I've never had any pictures featured anywhere but in my own gallery. Perhaps I'm just jaloux? :o)

I don't have a problem at all with ppl downloading my images and using them for deskops and whatnot.. what I DO have a problem with is ppl putting them on their websites without asking me first and seemingly trying to make money of them. But I guess that's just little old paranoid me.

I think the whole point here is of ownership!

After all your art is an extension of your creativity - of your inner self - of your artistic soul!

You are very correct in saying that once you post your artwork online that anyone can download it. Which is not "That Different" than your images being featured in a magazine or book - Anyone can remove the images - frame them and use them for their own enjoyment!

However, it is against the law to take an image from a book, reproduce it and reprint in a book you are publishing - without the approval of the owner of the artwork!

This is where the paradox begins!

It is one thing to say Yes you can view my image for your own enjoyment From a Web Site that I have Approved the image to be featured!

It is very different to have someone take a Whole gallery [or even a single image] post it to their site Without the artist permission. (and in some cases even claiming ownership of that artwork!)

Why is this a problem you asked? Well for one thing - what if your images were posted on a site that you did not approve of. What if they used your images on a site that promoted views that you did not believe in? Or Material that you did not think proper!

Also, what if the person said they Owned your images, because they were posted on their site? That they had a right to distrubute your images and make a profit? It is all about ownership of your creation!

That is why our copyright laws came into being! To protect your creativity! I for one think that art-theft is getting out of hand! We are seeing more and more of this every day. Not sure if it is because of the easy access of the web or just a change in attitude!

However - It is so easy to just email an artist to ask their permission to use their artwork! And I would guess that in most cases the artist would not only grant permission, but be flattered that someone was interested in their talent!

Once you stand by and let anyone just take something without permission - the world reverts to chaos!

Some rules - like the copyright laws are here for your protection - not to limit people from viewing your artwork - but instead to give the freedom of artists to post their work to allow others the pleasure of viewing!

ladynimue

You hit it right on the nose, ladynimue. As the old cliche goes - possession is 9/10ths of the law. And in the case of one's artwork, the creator possesses it and has certain (internationally recognized) rights concerning its use, distribution, and display - no matter how easily it can be acquired by others. Again, just because you can do a thing does not mean that it is legal to do it. ernyoka1, I was going to mention that everything (except server-side scripting and certain streaming media) is downloaded to your computer for web browsing. But this copying, again, is covered by many laws which restrict what you can do with it. This is close to a EULA, in that you can install an application, but cannot lend it to your friends, sell it, etc. Any data copied to your computer that is copyrighted still falls under copyright law (period). In this case, the agreement is that you can view the material but cannot use it in any other way without permission from the creator of it. The internet started with free-exchange at its core (ArpaNet and exchange of research documents and information between colleges, universities, and such). Once it entered the public domain and then the business domain, this free-exchange has opened up a pandora's box of legal indeterminants. The internet crosses national boundaries, where laws vary from one nation to another. What the web needs is several levels of encryption (PGP or similar) depending upon the material being served - free, protected, secure. If data to be only viewed (and not copied, saved, or used otherwise) were protected, most of this would not be happening. BYS