After looking at a lot of textures and characters for sale at the store and renders in the galleries, I can't help but notice that the vast majority have these large, bee stung, puckered lips. Is this a standard of beauty because we are programmed to respond favorably to lips that somehow resemble a woman's genitals? Whatever happened to normal sized lips or thin lips in a woman? Browse through any Victoria Secrets catalog and you'll see that most those supermodels don't have those kinds of lips, yet that seems to be a favorite trait among character makers here. It's just a question for people to think about here.

I absolutely, totally and completely hate, loathe and despise those "smacked in the mouth" lips, especially the ones which don't meet in the middle. I'd like to see more characters with normal size/shape lips, but I'm not gonna hold my breath until it happens.

I'd like to think it's too better show the lip color. A few years ago, collagen lip implants were the big thing. (Pun intended.) I couldn't stand the look, personally. It's one thing to have thick lips when you have broader features - it balances the face nicely, but it looks really silly on people with otherwise thin facial features.

Lips? Personally, I find every single part on V3 to be plump or round or otherwise under 20. Not everyone knows that Lips Thin are just a few clicks away. The rest is good marketing in a tough market. Don't worry. The "next gen" has much worse things in store for us.

Other than Angelina Jolie or Jessica Alba, I've never seen a woman who I thought was attractive with a set of huge lips. They either look like they've been punched, walked into a door, or otherwise sucked on one too many lemons. Then again, I've noticed most Victoria characters look like bad plastic surgeon projects anyway.

Yet a lot of people seem to go nuts for them. Case exhibit is the render Ceba posted a couple of messages below. I personally don't find it attractive.

Poser has made me examine a lot of my 'automatic' reactions to human features...and it started with the Big Lips. I'm with Crescent--if the lips look like they belong with the other features, then they seem beautiful to me--thick or thin. But if they're on a face without one other feature that is full, softly rounded or fleshy, then it looks grotesque to me. The whole full and not-quite-meeting-in-the-center trend is really interesting....it's very neotonous (sp?) as in relating to neotony--the tendency of mammals to be drawn to baby-like features. It's really effective as a way to bond parents and young, but I find myself wondering if any previous generations were so utterly fixated on it as this one is....? And why does it have such a powerful effect on us?

Well if its just the lips that bother you, cant you just adjust the head morph settings to give you the thickness of lips you prefer. I have generally tweaked any characters I have bought to suit my own personell preference in some way. I hear what your saying and I quite agree but it is easily fixed and as the saying goes "you cant please all of the people all of the time" ( well ok its "fool all of the people" but it still sounds good) :o) , so the people that create these characters are always going to fail in someones eyes, as we all have our own idea of what is beautiful. Marv

"The whole full and not-quite-meeting-in-the-center trend is really interesting....it's very neotonous (sp?) as in relating to neotony--the tendency of mammals to be drawn to baby-like features. It's really effective as a way to bond parents and young, but I find myself wondering if any previous generations were so utterly fixated on it as this one is....? And why does it have such a powerful effect on us? " Do you really want to know the answer to that? Ever heard the phrase "Blow job lips"?

dialyn, maybe that's as much to do with social conditioning as much as anything. Not just the female reaction, but to a degree, the male reaction, too. You know, if a person is told repeatedly that something is attractive, eventually they will believe it. Not everyone, but a significant proportion. As for the whole neoteny thing, that would explain Brigitte Bardot in her heyday. If it's any consolation, I find the whole thing pretty damn distasteful, too.

Sam, I agree with you on the statement: "If a person is told repeatedly that something is attractive, eventually they will believe it." It goes back to the days when larger women were considered attractive because it was a sign of being "well-fed" and wealthy enough to afford good food and eating. Marilyn Monroe was considered a babe in her day and she was a size 10 or larger, maybe. The media tells people what's nice and they believe it. Playboy models have been getting skinnier and more plastic every year. Take some of today's models and actresses, they look like starving ethiopians or anorexic poster children. Laura Flynn Boyle and "Posh Spice" Victoria come to mind.

Reminds of a Jim Carey skit as Venus Demilo In Living Color... he used a Curling Iron to achive this look.

The problem with a stylistic trend only surfaces when something is pushed to extremes... of decadence, decay, over-foliation, or deformity. At that point, our human revulsion kicks in and preservation of the species over-rides the other concerns. Harelips are deformed. Most normally healthy people see something requiring medical attention to repair and try not to shudder inside while being polite on the outside. When puffy lips don't meet in the middle, it looks exactly like a baby's bottom (think of all those cherubs and putti). When make-up is used to accentuate the look, I have to wonder... but don't really want to know. Carolly

But why now? I assume that babies' bottoms and cute pouty lil' lips have been around for a really, really long time, but past ages' standards of feminine beauty did not seize on them for the ultimate model for an adult woman's lips....Why did we? And when did it start showing up in the media? Many 20's actresses aspired to the bee-stung look, but none that I can recall seeing had puffy lips....or their other features matched their lips, so they didn't stand out....(pun intended!) ;)

Saw this thread and had some serious flash backs to one of my favorite movies 'The First Wives Club' In which the character played by Goldie Hawn was trying to get a part in a new movie and women have 3 roles.... Babe, Lawyer and Driving Miss Daisy..... and she ends up going to a funeral with her lips somewhat more than normal and the statements made by Bette Middler are classic. "What happened, Get attacked by a pool vac?" "Are they wax?" Delivered in typical Middler Style. The fact is they're in vogue, just like in the time of the corsets being in vogue the ideal shape was to have a waist that a man could put his hands around and the fingers touch on either side. Or try this beauty tip from Marie Antoinette whose breast size was considered perfect and was the size of a champaigne glass.... anything more than that was deformed..... or the era of the Elizabethan garments when the perfect shape was as flat as you could get it down the chest with huge amounts of clevage to top it off. Or Japan, where huge eyebrows were painted or the eyebrows were completely removed and teeth were blacked out, all for beauty. Or in China where women's feet were so tightly wrapped that they could no longer physically walk their bones were so crushed together, but they were beautiful. And don't even get me started on African tribal ideals of beauty. And we think someone who got attacked by a pool vac is strange, and that people who find attractive as odd? As weirdnesses vogue fashions go, it's not all that bad. Fashion really isn't about making sense.... explain to me those boys wearing pants so oversized that the crotch drags the ground and they live in serious danger of tripping over their own feet, yet they all but live on skateboards. Or people with so many holes in their head that they look like they've lost a fight with a porcupine and are in constant danger of knocking out their own front teeth with their tongue accessories. Shrugs Beauty or attraction really can't be explained or quantified only enjoyed, endured or quietly laughed at ;)

Beauty or attraction really can't be explained or quantified only enjoyed, endured or quietly laughed at ;) I'm with Littlefox, and yes, I'm quietly smirking. Still, silliness is one of the things that makes us human.

Well said Little fox ;o) Marv