Hmmm, seems there is no way for me for posting new stuff - maybe the harm I've done is to big - Sorry again for that guys, so it seems there is no way for me - I'll greet all great artists here and say thank you - have a fine time here and maybe someday I'll return and see if someone has forgive me. Goodbye (schnieef). I don't want to give you (the team) more work than it has already to do. So you don't have to delete my work from now on - I'll do no more postings yet - once again: sorry

Steffi, If you are TRUELY sorry, then that's good, but you couldn't have goofed at a worse time if you tried. Both forums are fresh from a MAJOR copyright infringement business with some wacko in Spain, and were VERY ready to jump down the throat of the next one who tried it. I love supportive communities. :) Next time, READ the readme file. It's there to keep you from MAKING this type of mistake. And a private appology to the owners of the poses might be VERY appropriate, and go a long way towards that forgiveness that you want. Greywolf Starkiller

Thank you Greywolf - for your direct and clear words. So, if someone was offended (hope again this words are right) by my posting please leave me a message so I can directly respone her/him my apologize. Thank you ...

Oh yes. An email to Jack, the forum admin, might also be a good idea. Simply apologize and let him know that you'll pay more attention to the readme files in the future. :) Jack isn't unreasonable, it's just that there is zero tolerance for using someone else's stuff without permission. There has to be, otherwise no one would post their stuff. Greywolf

I've already done this. Hopes he understands my apologize as it is mean - truely. My English isn't very well - so I'm not really sure about it. Once again let me say: I don't do this again !!! So what else can I do ???

GEEEZZZ....Come on people, cut the guy some slack. If he posted something wrong then he's sorry already! I mean all he did was repost some poses that someone else posted already right? If the person had already posted them, then obviously they don't care if they are posted...see my logic? I mean, whenever I post something I understand that it's gonna be spread all over God's green acre. It's a fact of the internet. Once you release something it goes EVERYWHERE. Get over it. As long as he wasn't selling something who cares? I wouldn't...as long as they didn't sell it. And if I saw it I'd just tell them it was mine. Simple as that. I mean the guy doesn't even speak great english so he probably didn't even understand the readme. As long as he is sorry give him another chance. I would. Kyrin

I haven't checked the Complaint and Debate forum in a few days, so I was totally unaware anything like this was going on. Since my poses were involved in this issue, I feel like I should make a statement. Although I would have prefered that my poses not be included in a collection, I don't have a problem with what Maier did. He did his best to make it clear that the poses were not his creations, and to me it only looked like he was trying to do us a service by combining similar poses into one large compliation. I still believe that he could have put a little more effort into tracking down the original poses' creators, but no harm was done in the end (at least, not to me). Just my opinion, but pulling his pose collections is punishment enough; there's no reason for him to be banned. I deal with people every day who's native language is not English, so I know how misunderstandings can arise. Just because we're all coming off the Spain infringement doesn't mean we should pound anyone who seems suspicious, nor should we stop contributing because someone MIGHT use our work without our consent. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Thank you SnowSultan and Kyrin ... Let me say that I know what I've done wrong. So if you feel harmed through my postings please mail me at schlabber2000@gmx.de to tell me how I can repair this (if this is possible). I really regret it, so please let me know what to do ... Thank you and once again: sorry, sorry, sorry (It'll not happen again)

That's a very adult standpoint SnowS, I'm glad that you aren't being nasty about this. So, OP's, let the man back in already...appearently there was no harm done. Kyrin

I've only posted one thing to freestuff. A set of elf ear morphs. But in understanding that people will spread it if they like it I stated in my readme that I as long as I got a mention for making it it could be put anywhere or sent anywhere people desired. The real reason I did that is that I didn't ever want to be in Hokusai's postion of having a lot of good work out there that noone can ever get cause I'd lost my sites. The way I see it is once you give away something for free it's unrealistic to be able to expect to be get paid for it later. So plan from day one of a freebie to just let it go where it can. If you ever desire otherwise then on day one charge for it. It's unethical to steal work of course. But I don't see what Maier did as that. I think he just assumed we were more of a community than we seem to be turning out to be. It only seems to make sense to compile similar items together. I'm planning to group all of my own list of downloaded poses together into logical catagories. From there it only seemed to make sense to share what you'd done with the others in the community. Since it's the same community that made the stuff. It's sort of like saying "gee thanks for giving me all of this cool stuff; I sat down for a few days and catagorized it; here's a copy back for you of everything put together in catagories; as a thank you." If people would stop being paranoid about theft they'd realize that in many ways what he did is a service for the community. The failure to include credits is the only flaw I can find in the whole issue. And given the horrid way people name their readme files this doesn't suprise me. It's not like he was trying to sell the community's work for his own gain. He was organizing the community's work and then sending it right back to the community. I believe that less than a month ago there were people seriously talking about doing just exactly what he did and then selling it in the store to raise funds for the site... Remember all those 'best of renderosity' topics? ...

As i see it no harm is done. Sure it is not nice to violate a copyrightlaw but the guy regrets it and we are all humans and makes mistakes i sure know i have done mistakes So if there are no harm done i can't see any reson not to give him a pat on the back and say "Hey it's allright" Thats my Opinion... You must Excuse my English... I'm from sweden and English isn't my first language though I got a A++ in Speach and a A in Spelling and Understanding... Ohwell enough about School :) The T-man

I suggest the following, in my readme-files you find the following statement: All this files are only for FREE use. MAKING MONEY WITH IT IS NOT ALLOUD. Well, i think the word free says all, means why had anyone have to ask me what he can do with that. I feel good to see some works with my stuff, thats why i post it for free. At this time i post it for free, it's not mine, it's the communitys stuff. Thats my sugestion of free use. Doesn't means i never ask for something special, take as example the combination of travelers an thornes hair pieces, i ask both of them to make this combination and post it at free-stuff. We all make mistakes, sometimes it isn't possible to find out who was the creator of a piece or something else. What all of us can do is, place a readme in all downloadabble files with the permissions and restrictions. I'm not much religius but at this i think this words comes close to the thing: THE ONE WITHOUT CAUSE HAD TO SHOOT THE FIRST STONE !!! SHARKEY

Does this mean there ain'ta gonna be no lynchin again? Durn!

I for my person means, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. We dont must go in paranoia, in real life we could do more then give a sorry, but not at this place. All of us make and would make in the future some mistakes, and each must have a second chance. Give her back her name and maybee she will give us something back. Thats my last suggestions about this. Robert Egli alias SHARKEY

Actually I believe it's been shown that Maier was unable to pull the files because Maier was unable to come on here using the account that had access to pull the files. Of course I don't know as regards the actual copies on Mair's ISP account. WHat bothers me here is that people in this community now leading this witch hunt were before suggesting doing the very same thing in order to raise money for the site. Now that someone else went along and unwittingly did it they go up in arms.

arcady I don't see much similarity in the situations at all...noone went ahead and put out a compilation of "The Best of Renderosity" w/o asking permission of any of the artists, it was simply an idea that was suggested. In this case the poses were offered to the community at large, with no effort made to even locate the original posters, much less ask prior permission. As to your "witch hunt" charge I didn't see very many people screaming for Maier/Schlabbers' head on a platter. In fact if you reread the threads you'll find that more people felt sympathetic to what they chalked up as an oversight on her part & that the subsequent ban was an overreaction.

Whats all the fuzz... It's poses... To make a pose is easy why set a copyright on it... The poses is at Freestuff and if you have 200 MB of poses on you computor heck i don't think none of you could ceep track on which pose belonged to which... he/she said it was a collection of many poses to make it easy and he/she didn't take credit for them just made a Collection and no harm was done... I wouldn't Care if someone did that with some of my poses aslong as they didn't take no credit for it... better no credit then a False one... The T-man

Allerleirauh... I don't think that it's no wrong on my opinion it's my i remind you the freedom of speech... I just think that copyrighting a pose is like Copyright a stone you find... Sure you could copyright everything you find but why share it on a free webpage. Respecting ppl work i can understan but as long as noone takeing credit for other ppls work there is no use of copyrighting a pose... If you wanna make money on your work do so but if you wanna share your work with others theres no nead of a copyright i think... A thanks to the maker is well enough i think IF you remember who the maker was couse when you download a new set of poses many ppl sure reads the ReadME file then just tose it away and try to trackdown who made which pose on the internet... speciely when you got all the poses mixed together. So Allerleirauh i don't like thats tone your using it's your attitude who sucks it you can't discuss without cursing or putting ppl down for there opinion... so Cut it out oki i'm not your enemy... "Luke i'm your father" The T-man

"It's poses... To make a pose is easy why set a copyright on it... " Ever wonder why comic-style rock-'em-sock-'em 3D art is fairly rare? It's because posing them is NOT easy. After a recent post about raph.com, I went through every image in their collection looking for anything with some 'life', some action...and came up empty handed. I made those fighting poses in the hopes that it would allow others to make action-filled images; the kinds I specifically bought Poser to help me create. As long as others don't claim to have originally made the poses (which Maier did not do), I'm not particularly concerned with what happens with them. I thank those who have been supportive to the poses' creators though, and generally agree with Allie in regards to this issue as a whole. This incident was a misunderstanding, but we need to make it clear that when it's not a misunderstanding, we won't stand for it. BTW, I'd also like to apologize for referring to Maier as a 'he' in my previous post, just now realized that goof. Sorry ma'am. :) SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

SnowS... Well your right some poses is maby hard to master i must say but itn't it just a pose? i can understand ppl copyright OBJ files and morphes couse i think they are really hard to make... I sure can't but wanna learn... Making poses is for me simple and i must exuse if i was a bit harsh Allerleirauh I didn't mean to... It's just that I think posing a dude is the easiest to do... making it animated thats the hard part i would say... Well thats all from me and i hope that i haven't made a fool out of myself in here couse that wouldn't be fun :) The T-man

Last night (3am european-time) is was really annoying and one close click away to delete my stuff and all my messages. Your life is an unwritten book, we all fill the sites. For my person i hope i was abble to fill it with such things like: - make people to stay happy - give people some helping hand and so on. My opinion is, each of us must receive a second (sometimes 3rd) chance, i'm shure all of us had becomes in the past more then one. I look up to people like SnowSultan who where abble to accept a sorry, they could be real friends. Greathearted people like that makes the core of a community. If someone doesn't remember what community means, go to a library and i'm shure you will find the right explanation. For me, it's a big difference to make faults/mistakes because she/he knows not the rules. A really other thing is to makes "faults/mistakes" for making money, no pardon for this. If someone feels my words as a personal attack, YES that was my target. BUT STOP don't think with your brain, think with your heart and i'm shure it will give you your right direction. Why are wy humans at the peak of the pyramide, we are abble to make mistakes and learn absolutely quick from them. A really other thing is the copywrite of written words, all of us have given help, opinions etc. whats with our copywrite if our ID was banned, isn't it our right to delete our messages and other things ? At the moment, i'm sorry but i don't feel to stay in a community. I feel like i am in a wytch-hunting. My Vote: Give Maier a second chance with her original ID, she had give more then one a apologize and sayd sorry. Must she come on her knees to you, or what else ? Robert Egli alias SHARKEY

{The freedom of speech may give you the right to belittle other people, as you have done here...} Actually, this is the most misunderstood and abused "right" granted by the constitution. The intent of the law was to mean that a person could criticize the government without fear of being arrested solely for that criticizm - a right UNHEARD OF in Europe at the time... Otherwise, I have to agree with everything Allie said... :-) Posing is easy. Posing WELL is an art form in and of itself.

First, no more name calling, I am NOT IN THE MOOD for it! Understood? GOOD! Next order of business, Maijer was banned not for the attitude of "hell it was posted to the Internet, so screw it, I can repost it", it didn't matter if it was Poses, geometeries or a picture, that attitude WILL NOT be tolerated here! As for the poses, that is what I do, that is what I am known for, think about the 2 hours you saved by using one of our poses when next you do your image DarkEden, even if all you do is use my pose or someone elses as a starting point, think about how long it would take you to pose that character from the default pose every time you do a picture. Telling me and others who work hard on creating poses without seam breaks and body parts imbedded into other body parts take time, which also helps to cut down on your Post Render time. You don't think their worth it, then don't use them. And granted you have the right to say whatever you want, but don't think that you can shield yourself with that BS here, because like you, everyone else has the right to that right just as you do. I have talked with Maijer and he is no longer banned on the site, it was a situation that needed to be addressed and taken care before it got out of hand... I did that and made sure that those whose poses were re-distributed were apologized to. Problem handled and dealt with. So back to your regularly scheduled rendering folks... Jack

Well i thought it over and well your right about the poses. Thats all i wanna say... An yes... whats BS??? The T-man

Thank you very much Robert, I indeed appreciate your kind words. Hopefully this will all calm down now, and we can spend more time using the poses in question than arguing about them. :) Only other thing I'd like to add is a request of sorts for Tygerlander to reconsider her latest decision. All it does is deny those who think highly of your work; nothing is solved this way. I do hope you decide to share your creations with us again soon and not let misunderstandings like this drive away another fine member of our forum. Thanks, take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Nothing more to say then THANKS. This thanks goes to a community who can handle troubles and can find solutions for it. Thats the community i find 6 months ago. Thanks again. Robert Egli alias SHARKEY

SnowS - did you see Tygerlander/Tina's post over at WIllow's PFO? If I read it correctly, she essentially said she's sort of re-considering. It will be a while before she posts anything new there, but she will still host her old files, as well as some stuff for other people, and may eventually host some of her own stuff, but for the most part she doesn't have the time to create new things, and when she does, she's more likely to distribute via e-mail than her site in the future. Jack - isn't Steffi Maier female?

When I asked, he identified him as a him, so I think she is actually a he and got the short end of the stick when his parents named him, sort of like me when my parents named me Jack... must've been a bitch for him when he was in school, unless of course, Steffi is a male name overseas... this Internet thing confuses me sometimes... Jack

Hmm. Maybe Maier is a hermaphrodite? :-) Or perhaps two people sharing oen account? From some of the posts I've gotten that impression - Maier sometimes seems to write with a masculine voice, and sometimes a feminine one; I'd thought it was just the awkwardness of typing in English for a native German Speaker, but perhaps it is two people? Or one very disturbed one (which would fit in VERY well around here, I think... ;D). And I think "Steffi" IS a "unisex" name, like Kelly (from a celtic word for Warrior) or Robin are in the English-speaking world...

To make it clear: I'm male but used a female name as Maier (Steffi is just a Nickname). Finally I decided to kill my Maier-Account because I don't want to come back as him/her. So I'll stay on as Schlabber (which is a nickname of mine in resolution to a very chaotic situation) As promised I'll put up no more not-mine work (changing my nick doesn't mean I'ld break the rules again). In the beginning I though I'll put up some new images in the Art-Archive.

Sounds great, looking forward to seeing them!! Jack

I'm just glad everything is resolved, at least in this case for the time being...