Well far be it from me to say anything of importance around here, but on another site i go tot someone who has seen actual pics of the M3 claims that most cynics will be more surprised by what M3 has to offer and will see a clear difference between the V3 male look and the M3 look. Lets not jump the gun based off of one lil picture.

WOLF359, I couldn't have said it better. I can't believe people are complaining about Mike 2 being too muscular by default. If you want a less muscular male you already have V3. There is many things Mike 2 cannot do, Massive Mike 2 attempted to push the mesh to its limits but the results are less than satisfactory. Mike 2 feet and hands joints cannot be scaled to match exaggerated muscular proportions, same with his fingers.

Everytime a new model comes out, people complain about the look of it... then times goes by and it becomes the norm to which the NEXT new model is compared...

Granted, out of the box M2 is a hulking brute... but with some work (yeah, work... I didn't spend my money just to point and click), you can get anything from giants to skinny gothy coffeehouse geeks. They made Stephanie out of Mike's mesh, ya know?

The male morphs for V3 were originally an "easter egg" sort of thing, then people wanted MORE MORE MORE! and when they get MORE MORE MORE, they whine whine whine...

And wolf359, I see you post that pic everytime the question of a "more manly man" comes up... I bet I could recreate that face in Poser and if I could find a really cool space suit... The more I look at it, the less impressed I get... The suit and texture is beyond amazing, but that's about it.

I'm sorry, but if you open a coloring book and box of crayons, the crayons don't jump up and start coloring. If you want to create something worthwhile, something beyond look at these things I bought!!, you're going to have to put a little bit of effort into it.

Image is M2 with his own built in morphs.

I agree, I keep seeing that suit posted but on closer look at the picture, which does not apear to be wolf's rather someone elses, the face does not even have eyes, there are no knees well something of knees but still. amazing suit though, love to see what else the guy has done, or if it's a model that can be bought. though it's a rather poor example of what a male model should look like, because you can't see the model inside the suit. With M3 I'm particularly intested in the joint improvements that we have seen in V3, this alone will help make the renders look more real. As daz learns more and sees more of what the community does with their models they have always stepped it up a notch with the next release. I'm sure that when the smoke clears and M3 is in runtimes the proof will be in the renders that M3 will be an improvement over M2. I use Judy, V2, V3 depending on what clothing, options I need for a render, it will probably be the same with M3, still use dork, Don, M2 and M3 will just be more spice and options to my artist tools.

Attached Link: http://mfr.queryweb.com/

A batch file renaming program I've been using for a long time now is Magic File Renamer. Version 3.00 Release 2 never expires and works great.

I'd just like to say I agree whole-heartedly with Wolf359. I'm really not interested in the cross-gender anomalies either!

***"I agree, I keep seeing that suit posted but on closer look at the picture, which does not apear to be wolf's rather someone elses, the face does not even have eyes, there are no knees well something of knees but still. amazing suit though, love to see what else the guy has done, or if it's a model that can be bought."*** HI this model is **not** Mine, its made in 3D MAX by a great modelor called "Fausto" who hopefully got his dream job at blizzard entertainment by now :-) Its not particualarly muscular but he is rugged **NOT** pretty or even Handsome and aggressively masculine looking!. in other words the **ANTITHESIS** of the femmed out "girly man" that some prefer. no offense to fans of the fem-boy look but i just want DAZ to know there is a market for the hulkish man brute and they would be ill advised to ignore it.

I don't think Daz is ignoring anyone, and you shouldn't say they are unless you know. Michael 3 as a base needs to be more 'nothing' than either rugged or fem, purely because it's easier to morph from a flat base than from something like Michael 1/2 which is already manly looking. And that model would be more impressive if it was setup up and rendered in Poser. Now that takes some serious work!

Perhaps DAZ could include alternative JP settings with M3, so that both slim and broad shouldered versions posed nicely. After the V2->V3 conformers we should be able to cope, and if there were just a couple of "official" options merchants might, perhaps, just possibly, support them. (I didn't buy Bishonen, but I seem to recall he had his own joint settings so that Mike clothing didn't work directly? That's what promted this suggestion.)

Masculinity is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has his or her own idea of what a real man is, same as with the female characters. I, for one, am sick and tired of blimp sized boobs on the women, that need a fork lift for a bra. To me, that's not a real woman. I like gentlemen, not brutes. But that's my psersonal preference, I don't believe that it's the epitome of masculity, nor is the brute, it's just my preference. As with everything in art, it's all subjective. There's no real right or wrong as far as people's looks are concerned, both male and female. I think Mike 3 should start out as a very generic figure that can be morphed in all directions. If you want Mr. Universe, great, if you want a waif-like elfin boy, also great. But M3 should be able to do it all, not just one or two looks that seem to be popular. Since I'm in the older group of members here (age-wise), I would personally like to see some middle-age or mature gentlemen come out of Mike 3, besides just buff young warriors. I look at people like Harrison Ford or Richard Geer and think it would be nice to have something on that order in Poser, besides just the muscle-bound wrestler types or comic book superheros. Melanie

I agree with Xena, and let me say from a standpoint of building clothing it is MUCH better to bulge it out than to try and pull it in evenly. Most of his morphs should go outward, in other words. I've already done a couple of characters that have a pose to move joint centers around, and even change joint parameters, I don't see any problem with that if he really needs wider shoulders for some super bodybuilder type (or whatever). Do real-life bodybuilders actually change their joint centers, though? ;-) I may do a set for Mike III, BTW! If so it will be my first ever male clothing set!

Granted, out of the box M2 is a hulking brute... >> M2 a hulking brute??!! Not at all, lhiannan. The image in your post looks extremely femenine. To me it doesn't says masculinity at all, he looks like a little girl. The only masculine traits are his eyebrows but then there are women with eyebrows like that too. I'd like to know what's the use of Mike 3 for people who want to make him look that effeminate. I would think Vicky 3 would be a better template for that type of work. There is absolutely no way to do hulking fantasy characters with huge arm and feet joints with Mike or Vicky3 male morphs without getting a lot of mesh tears and loosing lots of muscular definition, that's what I'd like to see Mike 3 be able to do.

4 Melanie. Even older men can be hot.

Wolf - I did not mean androgynous as a preference on how a man looks - I mean androgynous as a blank slate/canvas with which to customize M3 with whether it be a monstrous, hulking testosterone guy or a cave-dwelling, malnourished, spindly little geek. ;) As ever, to each their own, but I like the idea of a bland piece of clay. G

Im, all for a blank slate as long as they dont waste polygon space with "girl" morphs that are better acheived with vicky and give us some realistic hulking brute morphs :-)

Let me just add to this conversation, from a standpoint as one of DAZ's brokered artist's that as Jim and Xena eluded, many of you will end up QUITE happy with this figure. Like V3, M3 presents a lot morepossibilities in just the mesh alone that virtually any type of character can be created. (Never underestimate the versatility... remember the Ogre made from Victoria's mesh?, or Stephanie made from Michael's?) I will have to agree with Jim on the issue of building clothing as well.... Michael 2 was difficult to build new clothing for and properly morph it due to it's bumps and ridges (musculature, mainly)... A smoother mesh will make the process much easier.

SimonMW, you just proved my argument, thank you... The whole point of building the character I posted was that M2 can look less burly... I wanted to build a child of him and get rid of the "Mike" look. I want all the versatility I can get out of a mesh. And I probably won't be using V3 for men once I get M3... Like I said, V3 wasn't advertised as a gender-bender, people just wanted that. DAZ does indeed try to give their customers what they want.