I'm sure your tastes in art may be most eclectic. However, it does seem that you have expressed some predisposition to consider Poser nudes as artless. If you prefer sea cucumbers, to viewing breasts, then I can only speculate that the said predisposition is based on perhaps something more than pure artistic sensibility. I also suspect that you're not alone in that feeling, just more honest than some. At any rate, I respect your preferences in art and marine life. For many people, Poser is about fun. I can kind of understand those who wish to take it more seriously and aspire to some greater level of artistic achievement but that's just not everyone's thing. Some kids enjoy playing a pickup game of ball where the trashcan is out, others will insist on dragging out the measuring tape and setting up base lanes. Whichever makes you happy. Fact is, no matter how accomplished your craft, there are other "kids" who will dismiss it out of hand, simply because you use Poser and don't build your own models from scratch. Everyone, it seems has to have someone to look down on. That is truly sad.

Well put. And that's one of the things I love about this site; that we are a "safe place" for people to play and and enjoy and share and not feel pressured about whether they are "good enough." On the other hand, this is the Art Theory forum; almost by definition the place where people who want to learn and improve hang out. Although this isn't the first thread that has become meta-theory instead; debating whether a critical aesthetic is even important to many of the artists we are discussing. But, to follow that thought further....if the first assumption is that no critical process is needed or wanted, then no other discussion is possible. The only reason to have a thread at all is if we take the base assumption that criticism has a place! I accept that there are those who are fulfilling their needs in ways in which I can not help...those who are satisfied and do not need to learn, for instance, or those whose muse is so powerful or so culturally remote from mine I can have little point of contact. My belief is that a large number of the people on this site DO have a classical western viewpoint; a need for constant self-improvement, a desire to learn (and to teach), a respect for methadologies based on observation and logic. And since we have a language and tools to help them, it seems rather silly to ignore their presence and go chasing after someone to whom our discussion is of no relevance.

An excellent thesis with which I agree completely. I agree that one of the best things about Renderosity is the stimulating mix of viewpoints and ideas. I also agree that it is an excellent place for those who want to take what may be their first serious efforts in art in a safe, non-critical environment. By non-critical, I refer not to artistic criticism, but rather to absence of the type of doctrinaire dismissal of someone's efforts simply because theydon't fit into the critic's view of proper art. Perhaps it's just a passing trend but I seem to see more of the latter of late - perhaps it's just my perception. For some reason, it also seems that it is never faeries, house mice or robots that are singled out as the ultimate excrescence on Poserdom's serious artistic soul. Now certainly, there are poorly done Poser nudes, there may even be a preponderance of them, but the fact that they are singled out with such zeal by the self-appointed arbiters of the pure has always led me to question... Even the inevitable adimission that the critic may have seen one "good" nude some years ago somewhere almost seems like the old "some of my best friends are - but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one," attempts at appearing liberal while retaining one's biases. Then again, maybe I'm just cynical. At any rate, there have certainly been enough harangues against naked Vickys, bosoms and "soft porn" to make anyone who chooses to work in one of art's great traditions to feel perhaps a little less than "safe" in debuting here, lest they be labeled as either talentless or obscene, if not both. Unfortunately, the wonderful opportunities for growth and development don't seem to apply quite equally sometimes. No doubt that's ineveitable. There's no reason we should expect all artists to fully live up to the ideals freedon they espouse all of the time any more than politicians It would be nice though. I hope none of my rambling leaves the impression that I think you represent what I'm critical of, I certainly don't feel that way. Unfortunately, whenever this old windmill turns, I compulsively pick up my rusty lance and start tilting :-) And now, I see, everyone else has left. Live long and prospe - Ars longa Vita Brevis.

Hey, it was a fun discussion while it lasted. Maybe next time we can get more people involved. (gets off high horse to finish work on a hentai pic that will get posted far away from here).

Was at another art site and the some 3d artists were complaining about abstracts/furries/anime. Abstracts using shiny objects or the explosion of stuff and photoshop texts. The great worry of these folks was that once viewers saw a few abstracts they would not bother to look at any 3d pictures. Here, the 'flood' of Poser nudes seems to make certain people worry. > lmckenzie Fact is, no matter how accomplished your craft, there are other "kids" who will dismiss it out of hand, simply because you use Poser and don't build your own models from scratch. Everyone, it seems has to have someone to look down on. That is truly sad. < In one gallery here, if you do not use your app to make everything, you are seen as a 2nd class user of the app. When contests come up, somebody is going to ask if it is "pure" or not. Agree with you on that point.

I realize that artists take their calling seriously, and that there is rumored to be a certain sensitive artistic mentality. Not being an artist by any means, I must admit that I often find it amusing the way some folks seem to feel offended by the presence of the lower classes, the way a Park Avenue matron would be offended if her rustic cousins from the Ozarks showed up at a dinner party. Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that the top 10% are less worried about the bottom 10% than some of the 80% in the middle are. But then again, what do I know, I'm just a civilian. Me, I'd rather look at naked Vicky than Picasso's women any day.