• no metaphors, allegories or representations - no fantasy images Is atlantis fantasy, I ask you? It's not science-fiction, and it's not fantasy because it hasn't been dreamed up by anyone, it exists as a historical record written by Plato from the conversations of Critias. Plato's republic is taught in schools and universities, for Pete's sakes. Pete's pretty annoyed right now, I gotta tell you. What Pete understands from the damned challenge is that there should be no allegories. As in I can't make 2 shapes in xfrog, put them over the bloody water, and call it existentialist ennuy. By no fantasy I understand that there should be no unicorns... But Atlantis... COME ON... It might not be the strongest of historic facts, but it exists. So yeah, anyway, just wanted to unload my mind on you all and ask Zhann if I'm allowed to do it. Zhann? Drac

Technically it's a Myth/Legend like Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster, Hercules, Robin Hood, King Aurthur....shall I go on? All those have historical records but very few if any have any substantial evidence that they do/did exist. Atlantis has been speculated to be many places (most recent is South America) as well as some evidence that there were men similar to Authur/Robin. But they are not concrete historical figures/places/events.

There's an island called Thera in the Agean, that was a former volcanic island..it's thought it might be the source of the legend.

Yep, Thera is considered to be the source. Anyway, Drac, Herodotus wrote about amphisbaena, people without heads and faces on their chests, dog-headed people, manticorae and so on. Does it mean they exist?

Attached Link: http://www.geocities.com/webatlantis/LostContinentofAtlantisisSouthAmerica.htm

Thera has been disproven or at least determined to be highly unlikely as the location of Atlantis. This statement here is the clencher " The mountains contain a natural alloy of copper and gold (orichalcum)." " Some people believe Orichalcum to be a mix between gold and copper that you can find as a natural alloy only in South America. There is a reason for this. The Latin aurichalcum ( gold copper/metal ) has often been mixed up with Orichalcum. The Greek word Plato used was oreichalkos. In other words Plato meant mountain copper and not gold-copper/metal. ( aurichalcum ) Both these copper alloys are written as words containing chalko in most ancient texts. The Greeks probably didnt have any words for brass and bronze but instead one single word for alloys containing a lot of copper. ( copper alloys ) ( or did they? ) If someone is going to translate Platos Critias in a correct way then the first sentence mentioning orichalcum would look a bit like this >> In the first place, they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, solid as well as fusile, and that which is now only a name and was then something more than a name, mountain copper, was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, being more precious in those days than anything except gold. Orichalcum is replaced by mountain copper Another possible word instead of orichalcum could be: copper ore The question is now: what does Plato mean with mountain copper? Did he mean that copper / brass / bronze was very popular and used in the time of Atlantis but not anymore? ( maybe because of the iron-age ) Or did he mean that the substance was totally unknown to him but the Atlanteans called it mountain copper? Maybe the priests in Egypt saw that the meaning of the name was mountain+copper and translated it as mountain copper for Solon. Or did the priests know that orichalcum was brass or bronze and translated it as that? In Egypt it was common with names such as mountain copper, mountain gold, water gold and so on. What it meant was in this case different types of the same metal. Brass is one type of copper and bronze is another one. ( for example ) Orichalcum probably was some kind of copper alloy. " If Orichalcum was translated correctly as the metal alloy then South America is the only place it occurs naturally. Otherwise if it was mis-interpreted then it could very well be anywhere copper is abundant.

maybe Plato considered it the Platonic Ideal copper..;) Just don't get all Socratic on me, it corrupts the youths..;)

Troy was considered a myth until Heinrich Schliemann dug it up. The greeks did also invent Centaurs Nymphs Dryads and Pegasus. Fiction is not unknown in greek storytelling. I'm afraid without ruins, coins, the Egyptian golden pillars, etc. the story will have to remain a legend.

Sigh, why is this so difficult.... Okay the farther back you go the more 'hazy' things become as to fact or fiction. I personally believe there was an Atlantis, it was supposed to be a great training center for artistians, physicans and teachers. And there is still debate as to where and when Atlantis existed altough there is no proof only heresay. And this is a GRAY AREA in the challenge I'll admit. So Atlantis will be allowed (no fantasical creatures inhibating it will). However, two abstract sahpes over a body of water, unicorns, trolls, fairies, minotaurs, satyrs, nymphs, dryads, centaurs, dragons or mythological creatures of any kind, bleeding statues, winged eyeballs, etc, are not allowed. I really didn't want to make this a specfic peroid in history but I will if only to help clarify the challenge for everyone. I'd hoped to get a wide range of historical images, events, objects or people, that spuured your imagination or infleunced how we live today... So Drac, is this satisfactory? Or should I make the challenge a specific period in time?

We really need a spell checker, sahpes=shapes, spuured=spurred...:)

I like the challenge how it is. There are literally thousands of "Recorded" Documented events/people/things to choose from.. Just to name a few.... Attack on Pearl Harbor Titanic sinking ANY U.S. President (George,Lincoln,Truman,Roosevelt,JFK) Benajim Franklin Thomas Jefferson Signing of Declaration Battle of the Alamo Neopolean 9/11 Columbia Crash Japan gets nuked by U.S. The Wheel THE INTERNET Armstrong lands on the moon Breaking the Sound Barrier Dinosaurs (Not how they all died) John F. Kennedy getting shot Lincoln gets shot Elvis hmm did i say a few? These are rather modern events, and there is nothing wrong with modern. You can do this period, the period before that and the period before that. What Zhann is looking for is work that makes a person say, "Hey I Remember that..." or "I remember Him/her" and so on....

"However, two abstract sahpes over a body of water, unicorns, trolls, fairies, minotaurs, satyrs, nymphs, dryads, centaurs, dragons or mythological creatures of any kind, bleeding statues, winged eyeballs, etc, are not allowed." Zhann, I wish you'd said something earlier. Now I have to start all over.

ROFL!!very funny...;p

Ahhh, man...tjohn stole my idea....

lol, Damn tjohn...I remember that!

Tjohn, you RULE! That's silly, fun stuff... Zhann, I don't think anyone's really confused, just that some of us (Tjohn for one!) are funnier about it than others... YOU won the contest, Zhann(again!), and YOU make the rules. Anyone who doesn't think they are "fair" can go ahead and not enter the contest. The only reason I never make it into contests is that I start on ridiculous projects and by the time the contest is ove, I'm just getting to the render stage. I'm just now finishing up my tree render for last month's contest! And, unfortunately, it's not quite cool enough in my mind to ever end up in my gallery... (shrugs)

ROFLMAO!!!! You guys are hysterical!

tjohn makes me chuckle. zhann, okay, i'll try to think of something else just so i don't step on any toes. but if i can't, i'll stick with the city. thanks for the heads up. Drac

I think Drac just sits around thinking of ways to be controversial. ;) Now I better get back to my challenge entry called "El Darodo".

lies.

You guys do this just to annoy me, I know you do, better watch out or I'll send over the Spanish Inquistion ;]

lies, i only stalk Agent Smith, and even him, only on weekends :D

ROFL..........8D Every month it's the same it starts out as a serious challenge then goes all weak at the knees in no time at all. You just got to love this place. 8) Catlin

Don't mess with Zhann! Not only is she the Goddess of the stormy seas, but also the high-mountain forests! She'll get you where ever you go.

;P

If you need a spell checker..(Here's waht I do simtimes)..I copy & paste the text and run it in my outlook express or Word for that matter.Takes a few seconds but saves me the grief of looking at each word.We read typos don't we?

dynamo, Absolutely! Fortunately for the naysayers, Zhann uses her supernatural powers for good instead of evil. If only there were more like her. ... As to Atlantis, I think we have to consider that a myth at this point. Plato only mentions it twice, and isn't really clear as to where it was and in at least one of the accounts part of the description has been lost. - TJ

Atlantis is pretty cool, but waaaaay played out in terms of art. Methinks the Seven Cities of Gold are way cooler. But the REAL mystery of the Earth, far as I can tell, is what happened to Masema...

What's Masema? Did I miss something....................8) Catlin

well, I didn't expect the bloody Spanish Inquisition!
Noone expects the Spanish Inquisition! Cardinal! the Comfy Chair!..;)

Masema "The Prophet", a character from a RPG?

Masema..... he scares me. :)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!...........so he's a real person then. lol 8)

Masema IS the prophet, although he's NOT from an RPG. Masema is from the Wheel of Time, the most vast and ridiculously beautiful literary fantasy work out there. Masema-the-3D-artist, is a cool person who I used to blab with about the books (there are ten so far, all excellent, all about 800+ pages, by Robert Jordan). We had a personal challenge to re-create Shadar Logoth, but then he disappeared? Perhaps he's just finishing it up to blow mine away? (grins) Sorry, that was waaaaay off topic! (shuts up for once)

Ok I'm still lost, what is rpg, oh wait, wheel of time, sounds familiar. I work in a library but its funny how they mistakes us folks up at the checkout desk for librarians. The librarians are in the back more and order books and know stuff. I'm a clerk and needed no library knowledge to get a job there. Its really quite nice. And I recall seeing some "wheel of time" books pass by me. I really wish I had time to read. Ok, talk about going off topic, my turn to shut up. :-D

RPG = role playing game for example Dungeons & Dragons