Even though the work in general is technically perfect, I find almost 95 percent of the Poser Hot 20 pictures mind-numbingly boring... Blondes caressing unicorns in the sunset,elves riding fluffy dragons in the sunset or aryan couples kissing in the sunset for example.Almost all of the pictures look air-brushed to death, and the characters usually look bored rigid.

Yaaarghh, why this manic preoccupation with fantasy estethiques? Why not try render something from real life for instance? Go to the Magnum photo archives, or borrow some books on art or (prefereably) some photo books. Get out of that overdone fantasy genre, and rock the world with something new!

I mean the next time I see a female elf riding a dragon into the sunset I am gonna throw up over the keyboard.

Stig,

It's funny how the same names keep popping up too (yes I know my gallery is empty, no plans to add anything either) Seems to me & a few I've spoken to that it's being hijacked by certain individuals & their simpering cohorts to showcase their dross, apologies to the really talented people who get their stuff shown. But I do actually like seeing the odd Elf riding a Dragon pic from time to time :)

Stig, there is an easy solution: You don't like Fantasy, than don't look! But please don't grace a whole genre with your contempt, it's rude! Dani

Fantasy in itself isn't the problem. I think too many of us are pre-occupied with using poser just to create "realistic" renders, instead of pushing the proverbial envelope and using it as a basis for something much more creative. Let's face it, you can make an image look as photorealistic as possible, but it's still no more interesting than taking a photo of someone. In fact, a photo is probably far more intriguing. There are some VERY talented people who submit their works here. But there are very FEW who come up with original concepts for their art. I'm not criticizing anyone for trying their best. Spending hours on a piece takes patience and diligence, and for that everyone should be commended. However, I think there is a lot to be said for originality and conceptual creativity. The only thing I would like to see more of is for the artists in this community to start thinking more "out of the box" when it comes to setting up their works. The software you use is just a tool. Art comes from you. All in all, I don't agree that the entire top 20 is "boring". I think there's some really inspiring pieces of art there, but in my opionion the problem is too many duplicate ideas that aren't reworked to the next level.

I haven't ever participated in the Poser Hot 20, but I can tell you that most of my art is in the Fantasy realm. That's the ideas that come to my head, so that's the idea that get put out. If someone finds that boring, not my problem, they don't have to look at my work. However, if someone is going to complain about the lack of something original or different, seems to me that maybe they should put their money where their mouth is and create something different themselves and put it out there for everyone to see; instead of just critizing others.

Hehe. Touche! Good point, elektra. ;-)

Ah, so only those who try are allowed to critize ?
Hmmm.

I can partially relate to the comment of churning out pictures with the same items over and over again. Why not stop using unicorns, elves, dragons, etc. and go for something new?

When's the last time you saw a manticore or a sphinx in a picture?
Why not try to be creative and create your own mythological beast? Hey, there is a new and interesting contest to work on...

Why should only the ancient creative people have the right to make up imaginairy animals?
Surely, in this day and age, we lack good imagination on new and 'improved' models.

Just my EUR 0.02.

Gemini

Fascinating thread. I like fantasy myself, but I agree that it can seem a bit much here, because there's so much of it. And I agree, too often we fail to take it to the next level. I don't think you need to be a great artist to criticize art. You don't need to be a filmmaker to review a movie, do you? Zhurok, what do you think of the "gallery picks of the week"? They are usually more original than the Hot 20. And why don't you go through the galleries and post your own list of fantasy-free recs? I'm sure a lot of us would check them out if you did.

No anyone can critisize, that's pretty darn obvious, but it makes me think of people who live in democracies, complain about how they don't like this or that, but never vote. If you're going to point out something is wrong, how about at least coming to the table with some ideas on how it could be improved? If you think there is a better way, show us! If I were a modeler, I'd gladly create my own critters, but I don't know much at all about modeling and with fulltime work, part time school, and still learning the in's and out's of some of the more affordable programs, I haven't gotten to modeling. So, I use what models I purchase, and my art is based on that and what comes to mind. Everyone has the right to create and make up what they wish. I would not mind seeing either a Manticore or Sphinx, heck I would love to see a gryphon or minatour! I really haven't seen many models around on any of these, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Is there any of those critters offered here? But it seems to me that many folks are happy to complain about this or that, but how many are willing to step up to the plate and actually do something about it? If you think there is a lack of creativity and originality, then show us something new!

randym77 wrote:

Zhurok, what do you think of the "gallery picks of the >week"? They are usually more original than the Hot 20.

I did, and I must say that it blew me away. What a refreshing change and how much more exciting than the Hot20! Now I know where to go to find original artwork. Amazing stuff, now I got my faith back in regards to Poser...I have one question though, why dont these people show up more often at the Hot20? Who picks the Hot20?

Stig,

The last time I posted an image here was back in 2000. It's 2003 now, and the software has made some great advances over the years. Plus it's more easy to impliment scenes from poser into other more advanced software that can take full advantage of one's visualizations. I'm not intentionally criticizing anyone for their style preferences. All I'm doing is elaborating on the original post in this thread. In fact, whenever I'm inclined to comment on an image in the galleries, I almost always give positive reinforcement to the artist for their efforts. That being said, it just seems to me that some people may be holding back with what they are capable of posting to the galleries. Could it be because there seems to be an overwhelming partiality to only one or two types of artistic style genres?

elektra wrote: > If you think there is a lack of creativity and > originality, then show us something new! Because I suck at Poser! :) I love the program, but all I do is doodle around with it and create really boring pictures. Thats why I like to see top quality renders made by someone else who are much more clever at it than I. Not only is it aesthetically pleasing, but I also learn a bit or two about possibilities and techniques. When I got to the Hot20 I expect to see just that, but it seems some of the original work that I see elsewhere dont appear there...instead I am treated, month after month, to blondes carresing elves (or something) just like the froncover of a 80's poodle rock LP album...[flame suit on] Stig,

Zhurok, you don't suck bro. I think "The Gazed and the Submissive" is a pretty cool image. :-)

Try the Poser Community Home page, it has some nice "overlooked" works. As for the Hot 20, change it to 3 votes per person/week and you would see a very different and much better "Hot 20".

I must agree that fantasy images, by and large, don't interest me, my forte is sci-fi/cyberpunk stuff, not much of that kind gets posted (in relation to fantasy/pin-up images). But that isn't to say that the images aren't good or art etc, everybody has their own likes/dislikes. The Hot 20 has always, or at least, as much as I remember, been plagued by comments about how it is organised. I never look at it, my hot 20 will undoubtedly be different from somebody else's anyway, I take time to look at the images in the gallery and comment/rate those which do appeal. There are some amazingly original and very striking work being done with Poser in the gallery. All you have to do is go looking for it. best wishes Jody

One thing that you could do if you think the Hot 20 isn't so hot, is find graphics you do like, and actually vote for them. It's a popularity contest, afterall, so enough of you who dislike what is currently on the Hot 20 actually got your hand out of your pocket, then you could click other artists into the Hot 20. It's like people who complain about the government but never go to the voting booths so a minority of people actually elect who governs. If you don't vote, don't bother to complain. Not voting means you like the status quo so you'll continue to see the preferences of others. If you don't care enough to vote, then don't visit the Hot 20 because you didn't participate anyway. That simple. It doesn't take an artist to figure that one out. And one other thing you could do is promote artists that you feel are overlooked. Dee-Marie doesn't have to be the only one to post lists of "finds." Anyone can do it. And that's one way treasures are uncovered. Of course that takes more effort than complaining. But it is a suggestion that might actually accomplish something.

I've actually pretty much given up looking at the poser galleries, but if you want to look at some absolutely astounding work check out the gallery of Hobbit (he uses mostly Bryce) his work deserves to be in every hot 20 on the site :) ps dialyn I do vote but I never see anything I vote for in the hot 20 Bring Back Legume, Bring back the Pink Pony!!!!!!

addendum!!! How can anyone get into the hot 20 when 2 or 3 people (& it's always the same ones) get all their croneys to vote for them? They consistently have pics that get 20-30 votes within 24hrs of being posted (always the same people voting)& the comments shoot from 0 to 100 within the same amount of time. The hot20 would be better & more varied if people were limited to 1 pic in the hot20 a week especially when the people I mention up there seem to churn out a new pic every day.

I think I already went through that. If people voted more (not less), then you would see a shift...especially if the discontent people voted. I've seen graphics that were largely ignored get into the Hot 20 because someone bothered to make the effort, post on a thread "look, isn't this neat" and drew people to take a look. If you want someone else to do the work, then accept the work that results. If you don't want to vote, you don't want to seek out new talent on your own, you don't want to do anything except whine that there's nothing worth seeing, than accept the consequences. The fault isn't really in the symstem. It is in the inertia of the membership. I accept it. I never look at the Hot 20 anymore because I know what I'll find there, but I still vote because that's my responsibility and I don't give a hang nail if no one else does. You have a choice of action, or inaction. Pick it, stick with it, and live with it. But don't tell me you don't see what you like on the Hot 20 if you do nothing except start threads like this. Another idea is to look outside the Poser crotch...sorry, I meant Poser box. There are wonderful graphics outside of the Poser gallery. Some fine artists post Poser in other galleries. Stretch your virtual legs. It's worth the trip. Off to work. Have a good day all.

Stig - I don't think you suck at Poser, but maybe if you spent more time with it, you'd like what you see in your own work. Is there another app you're good with? dialyn - what you said!

I don't look at the Hot 20 .. End of debate :)

Handing sticks out.... See dead horse...... NOW BEAT IT!!! I totally agree with Dialyn. The ones who don't vote give up their rights to complain. so ROCK THE VOTES!! JV

watches the debate silently

the only time the hot 20 wasn't boring was when we filled it with Legume's pics.

lelionx that was a great day indeed :)

I didn't look at any of the elves riding into the sunset or NVITWS or whatever, but I HAVE seen several references to Legume. When is he going to make an appearance? One big problem with an artist's site like this is that if everyone is an artist, then it demystifies the formerly elite calling that artists used to aspire to. So if you have 50,000 or 100,000 artists and only 5 or 6 meek, humble, talentless spectators, it's inevitable that boredom is going to set in at some point. If you have another "elf in the sunset" or NVITWS posted every 30 seconds, it stops being special and starts looking more like an assembly line.

ya- the hot 20 shouldn't be based on votes it should be the 20 most viewd THIS WEEK just like the contest- they get hijacked by newletters and newgroup postings I won't do contest here anymore cause of it

hehe this has been a topic discussed once or twice with fellow pals of mine... I must agree the hot 20 is usually a fanatsy gal in a misty setting with the mandatory airbrushed hair, and postwork bonanza, and usually with all the same people voting within seconds, I know that certain artists have a clique, and whatever they post the same group will all post and vote, 'Oooo thats beautiful...' etc But thats just the way it goes, I don't begrudge anyone anything really.. I'm not even sure how u vote someone into the Hot20?? Is it just by commenting and using the ranking system, like Hmmm or Excellent.. or what? Anyhoo... Its all a bit of fun and in the long run shouldn't really effect your life ;) -SimderZ- xXx Recently nammed by friends as the Queen of Fetish & Pin-up... LOL... no swords, temples or elves here... teehee

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=131910

I just looked at the link that Jim posted above. So, no elfs and dragon's in sunsets, but you're sterotypical topless women are right there. Yep, every amazon I know (excluding the archers) run around with no tops on because that makes them fight better.

satire sarura, satira 1: a literary work holding up human vices or follys to ridicle or scorn 2: trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly

Sigh, that word that got cut off is "appear" which, unfortunately, didn't.

Who is this mysterious Legume guy???

Attached Link: Legume's CHARTER of ALT.BINARIES.3D.POSER

Thanks dialy, he sounds really "special"! :) No wonder some miss him....

I don't agree at all. Recently there has been Brigits Funny dragons, humor pictures. A realistic picture of two sisters building a snow man. Some children. All you do is click the vote for image. It's right in the center. Comments don't count towards hot 20. And most viewed would not work at all, unless you want to see 20 pictures of huge Hooters. I take it as an honor that some of my pictures make it to the hot 20. I like it just the way it is.

Jim - the point I was going for is the poster said that they are tired of the same old thing of elfs and unicorns, yet the image we see is topless - which is just as overused.

zhurok, I've never been in the top 20 or any such thing. I don't like unicorns,elves,comic type figures etc. much either, nor do I air brush. Yet,I love fantasy because I can do whatever I want without being constricted by what you call "real life". You say: "Get out of that overdone fantasy genre, and rock the world with something new!" I think I'll stay in the fantasy genre, but if you think my fantasy pics are the norm, I'd have to disagree :-) I believe one can do fantasy or any other genre and be boxed in or step outside the box yet remain in said genre. It's 'their' art and that's really what's important. Dang I do art for me. If someone likes it and it speaks to them,Coooooooool........... Opinions may vary, :-) Strixowl

Dr. Legume is still around the Poser community, making trouble and being generally obnoxious (but in a good way, or at least, I think so and I find him funny). From what I understand, he vowed never to visit R'osity again (I don't know why, sorry). Anyway, if you're interested, just have a look at some other well-known Poser type forums and do a search for "legume". You'll find him. He was posting just a couple hours ago at another site. :) bonni

yep Dr. Legume is still around but he's been struggling with some serious health problems lately, if you want to say hi to him, best do it now while you still can.

Why did he leave Renderosity?

That was a thread killer, wasn't it? :)

I can hear the guns being loaded already ;) that's not really a subject for this forum or site, best/safest to ask about that over at the other place.

hey nornaddict .. didya know that there's a Norn for Poser? over at 3dMenagerie :) as for everyone else .. if you don't like the status quo ... change it. Vote!

i think at one point we had every spot but one in the hot 20 filled with legume's pics.hell i think some people got so pissed off that they left rosity vowing never to come back.then we got him voted in as artist of the month.i've never seen this community so shook up.like him or not his art always said somthing and most of the time on many levels.

i think at one point we had every spot but one in the hot 20 filled with legume's pics.hell i think some people got so pissed off that they left rosity vowing never to come back.then we got him voted in as artist of the month.i've never seen this community so shook up.like him or not his art always said somthing and most of the time on many levels.

funnny how that posted twice! maybe he's still around.

I personally miss the voting by most unique views I always thought that was the best. I see images in there at times where there are several by the same artist and frankly most of that artist's pics look the same and I would never consider them Hot 20. Yes I do vote, on occasion if an image really strikes me because you see that it only takes 8 votes to get in the HOT 20. It's a bit of a downer to realize that there can be a large number of comments (all good )on a fabulous image but it isn't in the hot 20. Yet there can be several images by one mediocre artist (whose images almost always have the dead eye stare) where the majority of the commentors don't have galleries and are never heard of in the forums either (not that that is a crime - but whent he majority of them don't -it's just odd). So now I will vote on occasion but I rarely ever look at the listing anymore.

In the last couple of days I posted one picture to the gallery that I spent a lot of time and effort and thought on, and another one which was fun to make but which took five minutes and basically involved slapping together some pre-made store products. The five-minute jobbie got just as many views, and three times as many comments, as the picture I put all that sweat into and was really proud of. Why? Who knows? Maybe it's not as good a picture as I think it is, maybe because of the subject (it's a male nude, and those don't seem to be well-received for the most part), maybe it just wasn't interesting to most of the people looking at the gallery. That's how it goes. I guess that it comes down to a question of how much you are pleased with your own work, rather than how much you can please others with it.

Yeah, but it's kind of hard if you sweat for an image and still don't get more than your average of 3 to 5 comments. Sometimes it makes you think you're just bad and won't become any better...