Attached Link: http://www.geocites.com/bradhartbryce/

I have been going through my poser download archives (172 cd's in total) and have found many really cool gems with no claim of ownership or read me files with them. I have been trying to update many of them to poser/bryce 4 standards for my own benefit. I feel that many of these need updates that I just can't do and no one seems to want to claim as there own. I have thought of sharing them with all of you. Does anyone have a problem with this? I am sure there will be a few of you who will send hate mail, you always do. I will say that file distribution would stop if someone could prove ownership and ask em to stop. What does anyone else think? Are you ready for half a terabyte of long gone and forgotten files. BTW I have put the Winged Angel up for download and she is partially updated. anyone want to make her her very own maps?

I'd suggest that you move cautiously with this plan. The original creator of the meshes still hold the copyrights to them 'claimed' or not. You could be getting yourself into some very hot water if you distribute someone's model without specific permission and they decide to make an issue of it. I also understand that this site has a strict rules regarding copyright infringement.

What I would suggest brad is to make renders of each older model. post them on your site maybe in groups. And ask people to identify them. See how many you can get identified and then email the creators and ASK them if you can redistribute them. I am sure with the number of members we have a lot of the files will be identified. After you ask and get permission then post them. To just post them would not be right at all. And could land you in some problems you don't want or need :) Storm

Yeah put the pictures on your site, announce it(the date of posting, i mean and we will be thre, believe me.

the copyright issue is why i keep all downloads on my personal site. I also undergo extensive posting of pics to locate authors I have been looking for over a year with thousands of hits to the indivdual pics and found only 2 owners of almost 500 models pictured (neither of them even had copies of the file any more). These are obscure, props, poses and textures that were obscure when they were originally posted. I am not unaware of the reality of infringement possibility, but I also understand that once a file has been updated fair use comes into play. I can take a poser 2 fig pose it with pose made for poser 2, and then just as easily emulate it with version 4, and because of the non compatibility of the 2 files, I see no more infringement than if i copied the sitting pose of someone off the street. textures must be converted, which is doable by anyone who has knowledge of photoshop.

Props are the only part i can concieve of a problem with in terms of copyright, and may or may not get posted. i however worked long enough with a copyright lawyer to know that the most i would ever get for distributing the files I would potentially distribute, based upon the lack of documentation provided with these certain files and put out into public domain for free download, would be a cease and desist order, providing they can prove ownership of the exact duplicate down to the very last polygon. I however am in no way advocating everyone working in the grey area of copyright law. I think that there has been so many undocumented files in public domain that has been lost, that the really trully cool stuff should be circulated again giving credit where credit is do and looking for orignal authors to credit them for former brilliance. And those things no one can remember having ever seen or having made, should be shared like stories among friends

I have been circulating the pics of what i am about to put up for almost a year, a little at a time, both on my old site and different news groups as well as on here. Some of it gets deleted when know one claims it to save space, but these are well circulated, with no claim of ownership. Most of the originals were posted to alt binaries in 96/97 as either attachments or links which no longer work.

Yes, you certainly will be operating in a gray area here. Proving ownership down to 'the last polygon' isn't necessary. If that was the case, then there would be altered versions of Zygote meshes freely available. Your point about altering a texture is equally a problem since regardless of the format copyright still holds true. There's more here then just what you can expect 'legally' if someone decides that you've ripped them off. You'll have to decide if you really want to put up with someone harassing your ISP or host with complaints about your site. Some ISPs are very trigger happy when it comes to complaints about copyright problems, true or not. You can also expect complaints to any site that you contribute to regularly. Heaven forbid that you cross paths with someone with deep pockets that decides to sue if not to win but to hurt. Even good intentions can cause you a world of hurt if the wrong toe is accidently stepped. This is why I suggested caution in the first place. Your best bet is to get permisssion, in writing, for every item you distribute. The fact that they are obscure is the greatest weakness. You'll never know where that punch to the gut is coming from till after it has already happened.

When ure Site is online?!?!?!?

I have a beautifull Mermaid I built a LOOOONG time ago. I used somebody else's mesh for the fish tail part. I would love to share it. But I can't contact the owner. (no readme in the file, darned if I can remember where I found it) I won't post it. I'd love to have access to 1/2 a TB of goodies, but not at the risk of crossing anybodies copyright. This brings up a good point for all of us who post, Please include a Readme file. Not only do you get credit, but if you intend to give it to the world, we need to know that, so we can continue to share it. No doubt some of those props were created with that intent. But, now we have no way of telling which ones were given to the public domain.

Nerd - I agree 100% with your suggestion about including a ReadMe file. I add a ReadMe file with all of the WINZIP archives on my site. My experience has been that regardless of including a file like this some folks will still use the excuse of 'Gee, I don't remember where I got it.' This also brings up a point about public domain vs. free downloads. A mesh put out on a site for free IS NOT the same as an item in the public domain. Public domain is an area that has been defined for music and the written word. 3D meshes are considered to be software so public domain doesn't hold true.

I think that a lot of readmes just disappear and/or get overwritten. I try very hard to include the readmes in the geometry folders if there are any, or change the names of the downloads to include the creator, but I didn't do this in the beginning--and I think some still 'disappear'. I wish someone would come up with a better method to document the dls. I think everyone should put their name on textures--that would be easy and readmes are cumbersome in a texture folder. Any other suggestions?

i see that a mesh can easily be public domain, especially those that were distributed through alt.binaries and other usenet groups. This in theory is given to the world to use as directed by the post that it was included on. I happened to have those posts still and that was my first place to look for owners. I found some there and thos efiles will be either updated or not as per there wishes, but most of those people can not be found based on the given email on the post or simply gave bogus to avoid spam. Ethan> My site was up until three months ago when I no longer needed a site for my professional work. To further address the issue of free DL vs Public Domain, when it comes to files on the net no matter there final form whether they are words, music, or zip files, they are all the same in the fact that they are collections of 1 & 0's. To comment on the zygte, I fully respect there copyright and effort to make freebies. They however make it perfectly clear the files are not to be exchanged or modified and exchanged in anyway. I would not violate that or anyone elses express wishes in the mater. the full debates comes down to redistribution of files that were given to the world with no claim of ownership, the first to be released would be the absolute no ownership claim via usegroups, anything else i will be waiting to see what is done about Naster. But this has made for interesting debate, we can all agree on that I think.

When you post: zip name: model_author_whatitdoes.zip (ex: victoria_arcady_elfears.zip ) Model first for better sorting on people's drives. texture name: model_author_whatitdoes_subcat.tif model_author_whatitdoes_subcat.jpg (ex: victoria_arcady_xelf_head.jpg) (ex: p4nf_arcady_BFM_body.jpg) prop file name: model_author_whatitdoes.pp2 CR2 name: model_author_whatitdoes.cr2 OBJ geometry file names: model_author_whatitdoes.obj model_author_whatitdoes.pcf Readme file name: model_author_whatitdoes.txt In the readme: ********************************** Author --- creation date. Contact info (as much as you feel safe giving out). Copyright info Model info (design notes, credits, rants and raves) ********************************** Avoid any chance of confusion even years later. I can go on the net and find articles I posted to usenet in 1989 by searching under the username I used then, or by my real name. Likewise for anything I've ever done under the name 'arcady'. This can be used to locate me even if I lose all current accounts; including my free backups. That's why it's important to put your name or some searchable item into the readme's AND filenames. I also suggest a preview thumbnail render that has contact info on it. I haven't done this yet for my releases but it can only help. In fact I may go add it in. Take these steps and the only way they won't be able to find you is if someone delibertly steals the work.

sorry the link above didn't work try this one http://www.geocities.com/bradhartbryce/index.html