I want to start by saying that I dont want to bust anyones chops here. This isn't about anyone specific. Its more about all of us users in the Bryce comminity doing some soul searching.

I just took a few mins to look at some of the other galleries Hot 20 lists. Went though about 4 of them.

Wanted other Brycers to check out these links below.
Anyone else see a difference in the quality of the choices and overall content- or is it just me?

Just wondering, thoughts and comments I look forward too.

-Bruce

Poser Hot 20

Vue Hot20

Bryce Hot20

ok... at the risk of being flash fried.... The Vue hot 20 looks damn good if you ask me. Some really good landscape pics in there - have to keep an eye on that place in the future. Poser hot 20 is mainly what I call, rightly or wrongly (I'm an engineer, not an artist), character studies - but then thats not surprising as thats what the program is specifically designed to do. Most of the images have a fair bit of postwork done to them, but thats the result of the poser renderer not being too great and it being really hard to model good clothes and hair - all those strands and folds are hell on polys. I have poser, but can't make it "sing" like some in there can. Bryce Hot 20 seems to span the greatest (at this snapshot in time) range of different subjects. Surprisingly few landscapes, considering thats what it was originally meant to make. Those are the things that strike me. NB... if this thread moves again I'm going to nail it to the spot with a stake.

I just realized I have no vote button. Weird.

If you go to the picture from the hot20, there is no vote button.

ah thanks.

Yeah, am not sure why its coded that way... guess its just a "feature" ;)

I am curious about some of the images in the bryce gallery? For example, the render of the old renault. On a flat mirrored plane with a default sky and two bryce trees. The renault wasn't made by the artist (as far as I can see) and the render is...I am just curious as to why it got voted for.

Oh no, I'm not gonna get dragged into one of these discussions again! I learned my lesson!

I think the no button from the Hot 20 was to keep it from being too easy to vote for an image that is already in the Hot 20, thereby inflating the votes for those images.

Wow I'm at 3rd place in the top 20!!! (lol) ( I would prefer to be the n3 in my company top 20 LOLOLOL) anyway it's good for my bigbigbig Ego! Well I've been looking at Vue's gallery.. that rocks! Beautifull images, we all should keep an eye on this!.. regarding to the poser top20.. well it's poser!.. not a wide range of variety... all images looks more or less the same and a lot of (deja-vue) with an exeption for Twizzkid's work.. his posers characters don't look "poser" and his lighting setting is awesome. To Ornlu.. the one that made the old renault is part of a "friendly" french group and they vote for each other, not because of the image quality. but because they are friends.. just look at the comments... We are not in that place to be popular, we are here to learn and share knowledge and improve our work.. but it's only my opinion.

What I noticed is that the hot 20 of the poser gallery seems to be filled with images that don't really stand out as being much better then many other poser renders in the gallery. The Vue hot 20 has some really striking images, all of top-quality. All with the distinguished Vue feel, but great images non the less. The Bryce hot 20 seems to have the biggest variety in both theme and quality. If I'm going to have to be honest I'd say that I see some images in there that I think don't deserve to be there and some of the images from the gallery that I think really deserve a place in the hot 20 aren't there. But there's also some supergood ones in there too that look better then most best ones from both the poser and vue hot 20's.

I dont mean any personal disrespect to anyone and if anyone takes offense to my comments, I apologize in advance, but this seems to be one topic that keeps resurfacing almost every other week here. Its that proverbial dead horse that continues to get dragged out of the closet to get beat. And you can beat it until its bones turn to dust but someone else will soon come along dragging out yet another cloned horse. Im starting to feel that maybe this topic should take its place up there by the Bryce logo at the top of the page right next to the Bryce Forum FAQ. Art is art and its supposed to be fun, expressive and rewarding, cant we just leave it at that without making it into some profound search akin to the meaning of life? As for keeping our eye on Vue, Im of the opinion that we should also keep our collective eye on MojoWorld, Vistapro and Tarragen, for as long as those products continue to compete in the open market place, they will surely continue to accrue a larger user base as the technology continues to advance and jumps ahead in leaps and bounds while Bryce remains stagnated without a development team. Bryce might be our first love but the masses, the money, the technology and the future will be gathering where the goods are being had and Bryce simply just isnt doing it. Were being left behind and the only thing that keeps us afloat, aside from the fact that Bryce is an intuitive, relatively user friendly, full featured affordable tool, is our inspiration and artistic ingenuity.

There's a BRYCE hot 20? I thought it was something only NON-Bryce users got to do! (grins) I don't know how many times, statistically speaking, I've been in there. Thanks for voting me in there in the past, but I really don't care about the popularity part of 3D art. I'm with Pidjy on this one, Id much rather earn an artist's living than be on someone's cool list. Still, it does feel good to know when other people liek your expressions. (shrugs) Can't say there's anything wrong with that!

According to me there is not so a big variety of images in the Bryce gallery. There are 4 types: 1 - Hobbit and his clones. (bucolic landscapes with a lot of postwork) 2 - Rochr and his clones (distoted horizon and sci-fi images) 3 - Redinard and his clones (surreal, simply-but-appealing, full-of-metals-and-mirrors images) 4 - AgentSmith and his clones (i think AS is a superb Bryce researcher, his clones aren't) [in brackets are not the description of artist's images, but what their clones are stealing from them] Some few other are really good 3D artists, the rest of the mass is continuing in imitating eachother and everyone is getting fashinated from the same thing, again and again.... I think we are loosing the inspiration..... We need something new and we have to stop to tap on our shoulders. Just my 2 cents.

...ah just last thing... Too much imported objects... ok I know is not easy to do a human figure and his clothes (but it is not impossible) but sometimes ppl is just picking freestuff toghether and rendering....

... just ?? .... JUST ???! There's no "just" about it. I don't know, artists these days, they JUST pick up a pencil and draw what's in front of them. Total slackers, every one of them. Now, I had to MAKE my pencils, and mine the graphite myself, and make the paper too. And I never drew anything I hadn't made myself, oh, no. The time I spent carving wooden fruit every time I wanted to draw a still life. And I made my own wood as well ... (cont. on p94)

I know that feeling Phantast.; but thing of God.. he made the whole universe from NOTHING... damn! He would have been a wonderful 3D Artist! LOL

4D artist pidjy, he created time as well :)

Hot20 is a beauty contest. When was the last time you agreed with all the judges' choices in a beauty contest?

@Vasquez: Let it be known that I very much respect you as an artist; however, I disagree with your statement completely. There is a huge range of artwork being done in bryce. The only categories that I could possibly assign are based on the artist's experience. IE less experienced artists, experienced artists, and astistic masters. The fact that you categorize all of "sci-fi images" under one person, and in fact immitation of one person (according to your explaination). I'd go on and question the validity of your other categorizations, but I don't really see any need. My main concern is that you listed just about every possible artistic 'variety' and claimed that the top 20 is not diverse... I don't understand. As a final statement, I'd like to know what category you believe you're under, ie who you 'emulate and are inferior to.' Just trying to understand your meaning.

I have clones? Hot 20's; I agree Bryce usually has the greatest diversity to it, Vue can also, but to a much lesser degree, its hot 20 is almost always just landscapes, which are definetely beautiful. But, any of these hot 20's are variable in what subject matter they have from week to week. Poser's hot 20 is of course more of a character study theme, since that is what the program really deals in. The artists in the Poser hot 20 are true post-work masters, always some incredible looking stuff in there. Sure, it's dominated by sexy looking female pics, lol, but that's just the nature of fantasy art. (in general) *No vote button in the hot 20 - Yup, it's to keep it from being so easy to keep a hot 20 pic in the hot 20. Doing this keeps it easier for non-hot 20 pics to get a chance to get in there. Plus, if you really want to vote for that hot 20 pic, it forces you to go to the artists main gallery to vote, and then you end up seeing more art. AgentSmith

I do agree on your statement about importing models.

@Phantast LOL you're right artists these days are lazy... think at photographers they only click a button... but there's a big difference between my holiday pictures and Helmut Newton @tjohn is not a hot 20 matter is a gallery matter, but I think your metaphor is perfect! @Ornlu my list is not complete and, for example, I'm not putting every sci-fi image under Rochr category, but after he introduced the famous "ant-POV" every single image was with that POV and every single comment was like "wow great POV!"... it is good once... twice... three times... but after a while is getting tedious... another example is hyperborea, they are doing great images and I admire their style but it's just my impression or all the images looks the same? personally I would like to have the abilities to clone: humorix, dontatro, AgentSmith (yes you have cloners ;-) ), Pierre-O, Matthieu, Rochr, Ornlu..... but the list is really long.... I have much respect of most of you, my complaint is that we need fresh air to expand our horizons, I'm just feeling that we are getting stuck in our self congratulating....

Well, one thing I'd like to see more of is actual criticism in the galleries. I try to offer helpful advice and critiques when due, I wish more people would as well. I see far too many excellents where there should be a good or nice. I think people just are afraid of being mean or making enemies. However, how can any of us expect to improve if we don't get what's coming?

And yes I don't understand the hyperborea craze etc, but it's probably just not my taste in art, that's all.

Sorry for posting three in a row, but I just realized something. In my eyes, bryce is probably host to the largest variety of images throughout any software package. I mean think about it, what other 3d package has many images in the categories of landscapes, portraits, large scale battle scenes (flak), nearly completely realistic renders, fluid motion, surrealism, abstract art (and lots of it)... the range is absolutely huge. Now mind you i'm not talking about it as a modeling package or an animation tool. That's a different story.

Ornlu totally agree with you, I also try to give improvements, and sometimes i'm also a bit hard with people (maybe that's why I don't have much comments under my images ;) ). regarding flak my heart smiles when i see his battle image returning in the hot 20 after months, he makes really great images.

This is turning into a fine discussion. I am really enjoying seeing some other points of view. Myself, I posted this because of what I thought was a major differnce in quality in the h20's. As a primary Bryce user, I think the h20 for bryce is by far the lowest quality of the 3 I linked to above. Yes the Poser gal is filled with figure studies. But the point is that if you take a look at the Poser gallery, there are a lot there that are not looking too good and dont creep into the H20 month after month by the same artists. Unlike the Bryce h20, there are certain artists that will be in there over and over, sometimes regaurdless of how good the image is. Even great artists can do subpar work time to time. I was really just hoping that we as a community, would be a bit more critical on what reaches the h20. A little more discerning. Even if that means none of my work makes it in there for years. I guess I am seeing a difference in the h20's as thus: The Bryce h20 seems to be more of a popularity vote for the artist, rather than a "great artwork" vote. I don't see that in the other 2 linked above. Keep it coming.. I am diggin on reading these thoughts, seriously. -Bruce

I agree the "Masters have a following" but fortunately there are less than 20, so a few of the lesser known brycers get their renders inbetween the greats. I'm sure it must feel good to get in but I imagine it would feel immensly great to be above or below some of those who make it in regularly.

I got voted for cuz I'm popular?? Cool...I'm going back to chrome balls & water. Nah, I really like the fact that I've learned over a 3 year period how to really screw things up, & I'm gettin better at it all the time.LOL
I suppose there's going to be learning curves for all levels of achievement in any endeavor. Now consider that our judgement & level of experience go hand in hand. What some perceive as mastery, others see as newbie, mediocre, experienced, etc. etc. When I first came here, just about everything was amazing. Now, I know the difference. But I still warble my head at some pieces trying to figure out "how the hell did they do that".
All I know is I progressively challenge myself trying to keep up with some of you geniuses. Maybe I try to clone an effect or vision, but I improvise every time, "improving what I screwed up last time". ;) I also try to make certain items like Quasimodos hunchback(hump/terrain). If I can't make it, I'll import it, maybe alter it some or not. The bells were done in Amorphium Pro. Whatever it takes to achieve the desired result.
All these different Genres have Masters & Grasshoppers, but even a master knows he's a student too. I just know I personally don't want to carve stone or ice, so I choose 3D & mainly Bryce.(Cuz I like the way it looks & costs)
Now that I've made a total ass of myself I'm going back to install my new (freebee) CD w/ C-4D and learn something else.
You guys are all great...Knock'm dead!!
ICM
Rod

sigh.. well. I never should have made that comment about black unicorn...His followers are allready mucking up my gallery, throwing low ranks in. I guess I should have seen it coming, I'm just disapointed in their lack of class.

Ornlu, just shake it off. LOL. But I think this shows a bit of my whole point of this thread. To go now and throw low ratings on a persons work because of a personal issue, is no worse than throwing H20 votes to a piece because you like the person that made it... Thats my point. The other galleries seem to be above that stuff. Where the ART is king and not the artist. I have a pretty good friend that posts here. But I still vote only on his works that I think are worthy of making the H20. Not every single one he posts. And I would think the same goes for him with my stuff. I guess I would just like to see a Bryce H20 with a striaght shot of 20 "Well done" images. Not 15 great ones and others where you are shaking your head and wanting a strong drink...lol.

Yeah, well I am against both as well... Personally I don't vote for the hot 20, and I rarely look at it. I visit the gallery regularly, if it's in the hot20 I've probably seen it anyway.

Ornlu, thats a bummer you dont vote. Thats why there are images getting in with 5 votes. I noticed in the other h20s that the bottom images are getting 10-12 votes.. In the Bryce h20, its like 5. But its up to each individual. But now knowing that, I will never vote for another one of your images again... LOL just kiddin ;-)

It's ok, so I've been told I've never been in the H20 anyway. Then again, I'm not here for popularity. I just want to improve my artistic ability. It just annoys me when people act so childishly.

Ornlu, who cares? You know that the ONLY people who have important, informed opinions about your work are the ones who respond to your forum threads. I can't believe there are "factions" here at Renderosity! But lucky for me, I KNOW who I'm cloning. Vasquez is the ONLY one here with the massively benefical ability to slander and prejudge EVERY Bryce artist at the same time, including the ones being mentioned! So, I'm now a Vasquez clone. Massive sarcasm and idiocy combined in ONE ridiculous 3D artist! Too bad for the Fabulous Four, I'm sure they could have used my clone-ness in one of their Army of Art factions... (grins)

Well, I really consider myself an artistic vacuum. I suck all the art, politics, you-name-it into my miniscule brain and then take that and fingerpaint my miserable little stabs at the electronic canvas. And part of what I do is attempt to steal all the best things I see from the people I admire. Yes I do imitate most of those people mentioned. The thing is, when I try to imitate someone, something strange happens...I screw it up and it comes out as just me instead, LOL. I think it would be difficult to look at anything in my gallery and say ah...there's Tjohn imitating so-and-so. And it would probably be embarassing to so-and-so as well. :^) Many thousands of years ago, a man or woman picked up a stick and jammed it in some wet clay and repeatedly smeared it on a cave wall until the pattern of marks resembled an animal being hunted by some men. That was the one and only original painting. Everything since then has been imitation, in the sense that it builds on what has come before. The trick is to determine who you are, the emotions you want your art to convey. I like to laugh, so I like to explore the light and dark side of that through satire and parody. I also have serious flirtation with just about any other genre that exists, LOL. I like to think that even though my art is derivative, my ideas are my own. John P.S. I view Hyperborea's work the same way I view non-representational sculpture, looking at the shapes and textures of the objects. Personally I dig 'em. I actually relax when I look at the art of Hyperborea, it has a very real calmative effect on me. I like that.

Hyperborea's work rocks, imho. ;o) Yeah, it's just calming and cool work. My absloute favorite abstract artists, in any program. But, hey, I don't really care for country music. So, it's just all in what flavor you like in different things. AS

And if anyone thinks it's easy to do what Hyperborea does try it. I did. I made an abstract shape in Wings, brought into Bryce and blew 3 hrs on trying to make it work...and failed miserably. They are one (or two) of a kind.

Aye, I don't think it's a matter of "easy". It's like, with musical instruments. I spent the last ten years learning how to play metal on the electric guitar. I can play piano, violin, bass, and some drums as well. I can play every Metallica song, every Sepultura song, most of Slayer (although it IS ridiculous), and all kinds of OTHER PEOPLE'S music! But I've never, not once, written a whole song of my own? Musician, yes I am. Musical artist? Not one bit! Some people sure make it all seem easy, though!

Ornlu wrote: "In my eyes, bryce is probably host to the largest variety of images throughout any software package. I mean think about it, what other 3d package has many images in the categories of landscapes, portraits, large scale battle scenes (flak), nearly completely realistic renders, fluid motion, surrealism, abstract art (and lots of it)... the range is absolutely huge." Too right. I tend to post my images, when I post at this site, in the Poser gallery, because Poser figures are the main point of interest. But the renders are always done in Bryce. So - you can do Poser in Bryce, but not the other way round!