I was going to let this rest with IM's, but then I thought, why should I? A load of people in the Bryce forum seem to have been made fools of here - not to mention the original artist, and because I've been having similar troubles with people using my stuff on their sites without asking (although never passing work off as their own, like has happened here) I thought I'd see what you think whilst the image is still there. Here's the pic that's now No.8 in the Hot 20: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=543824&Hot=Y&Sectionid=2 and here's the original artwork http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=187318&item=309583 Straight cut & paste with a couple of bits removed and a bit of Poser added.

Ouch.

I'm not arguing with you that he should have sited the original work in his credits, bit I'm not sure I agree that it's a total "theft." I think he should have said something like "inspired by..." and given those credits and then maybe an explanation of how he used the original poster in his work. The reason I say that is because I've seen pictures that I've greatly admired and have tried to recreate them myself. Of course, considering my talent, I usually don't get this close to the original. ;o) Anyway, what I see in this is that he used the original poster, with changes, as a photo background (like I've used sky photos), then added his version of the foreground. Maybe the old saying is true? (to misquote) Copying is the sincerest form of flattery. Hopefully from now on, he and everyone will site their sources and give credit where credit is due.

I started this thread.. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1500937 I can't say anthing until the other side has their say. BTW..plagarism on images is no new thing..every digital artist, photographer etc.. has a helluva lot of probs. http://www.editorialphoto.com/copyright/index.html is a good read..

Unless this is a total recreation in Bryce, I'd have to say it was cr infringement, but the loss is his...and the Hot 20 has lost it's glamour for a lot of us here.....:

woah, I thought he had painted everything----guess i should have looked at his gallery first.

I left a comment on the one in the top 20 stating that his version/Portrayal of the original was excellent... Now where On the poster site can you get to the original artists Page? I tried to find out who he was and if he was listed on the site but I got Nadda... I tried the search on Allposters and I got a Kevin Lima but no Alexandro...

I first thought that he did what Aldaron did about that Hildebrandt pic (that was a total recreation in Bryce), but no. It appears he only added the two dragons onto the background and erased the dragon above the gates in Paintshop. Euw.

Yes, it's a straight grab with a couple of minor changes, blatant copyright infringement with intent (as evidenced by the lack of mention in the credits). 95% of the image is a cut and paste, hence the small size of the picture. Normally I'd say who cares, this goes on all the time, but seeing the comments praising the quality of the artwork, and seeing it push ahead of a lot of great quality original Bryce works in the Hot 20, I thought I'd speak up. If it had just been a re-creation of the original then that (IMO) is fine, but it's not. There's been a huge discussion on Epilogue about this, and an entire site was forced to shut down a couple of weeks ago as a result, for using artists' works without permission (and they weren't even pretending the work was their own!) woodhurst - You were right when you recognised it as a pro-quality image, because it was done by a pro. But that pro just happened to be different from the poster! Thing is, we have to assume that what a person posts is genuine. Things are getting sad when we have to research someone's work before leaving a comment!

The original artist is Garry Walton

Seems to me that the "Hot 20" is the same thing as the "Elite Gallery" over at GFXartist.com. Whenever you put one group of people over another and reward them with a higher statius then everyone else with an ego plays catch-up. To some people winning is everything, that is, being one of the elite. There seems to be alot of complaining about people who get friends to vote them into the top 20. Maybe it should be scrapped before people start clawing each others eyes out. The last thing you can do is trust some adults to act like adults. The same complaints can heard over at GFXartist.

This is just a bit too close to the original for a re-creation. Also the lack of attribution is not good! Sad!

Attached Link: http://haunter.student.utwente.nl/terrarevolution/details.php?image_id=1847&mode=search

BTW, as another "Sam", its not me either. :0) Sad thing is, I dont think it would be too difficult to recreate something like the background in Photoshop and import it into Bryce as a 2d layer and then add a foreground terrain and Poser figures. Done like this, with a reference to the original, (most important) it could be seen as an impression and a tribute to an admired piece of work by another artist, who hopefully would not object. Wouldnt try selling it on the same poster site, though. One of the fun things to do with Bryce is to try and recreate a 2d work in 3D, but the original must always be aknowledged, and it`s probably safer to do it where the artist is long dead. Rembrandt, anyone?

kimpe - I don't put much faith in the Hot 20, but in this instance I don't think it's a real factor. People will take other people's work regardless of whether there's an "elite" area to be attained. Some people do like the Hot 20 and it's not right to see a person getting in there by false means, and I wouldn't like to see it removed simply because a small minority decide not to play fair.

sad to say, this happens a lot..from people taking models with white backgrounds and making them into 'brushes', to stuff like this. Heck, I've given up on some pics when someone 'beat me to it'..(the fact that they did it better than I could have has nothing to do with it..;)

Get that thing OUT of the H20! Look at those pics side by side.. esp. the stairs... I am very disappointed in this fellow artist. Lucy, you got some splainin' to do!

Looks like the original was taken into photoshop and tweaked or something....I could be wrong, but it looks identical. If so, LAME!

You can't copyright an idea. In other words, if you decided to create an image of wild horses running through the tundra, you can go straight away and create until your hearts content but rest assured, that there are perhaps hundreds if not thousands of images depicting wild horses running through the tundra. Many will even bear a close resemblance. Its the style, composition and method of creation that sets them apart and makes them unique within each other. But this is most obviously out and out, in your face copying of someone elses hard work and taking credit for its creation. The person might as well have taken the Mona Lisa and pasted their face in her place and called it his original masterpiece. Perhaps this should be brought to the administrations attention or we can direct this person to this thread to let him know that we are aware of their dishonesty. If worst comes to worst, now that we know who the real artist is, perhaps he should be made aware of this situation as well. This is as bad, if not worst, than getting your cronies to vote your work into the Hot 20 and a real slap in the face to all artists.

the only differences i see is there are more light rays coming from the castle which makes it's shape harder to see, but the castle is identical... The dragon in the middle has been unskillfully and for me to say that it's bad, cause i'm not the best at cloning out areas removed, with the smudges left behind. The two dragons in front have been replaced with those of another pose.. The overall image bears the fuzziness of blowing up a picture, although some smoothing has been done. The rock onthe lower left still shows the linesfronm where the original text had been removed... and some sparklies added post work... Ok, ok, so I know my psp...lol The light glare was most likely done with the touch up tool, which will lighten...the cloning out of the dragon on the left is also done poorly, because where the head once was, the rock edge flow has lost it's crispness... The dragon in the middle looks to be cloned out by the clone tool, then smudged in circles to attempt to bring in outside foggy type look. With these obviously non-professional eyes, everything else looks like an exact duplicate. Or an image enlarged....

tafkat, I hear what your say'n and I agree about "a few bad apples" senerio. I was comparing 'rosity's problem with GFX. GFX is a little worse IMHO. But the seeds of malcontent are also growing here. It's a good thing that you did bringing this to our attention. I know I wouldn't have known about it 'cause I really don't pay attention to the hot twenty here or the elite group over at GFX. But I do wind up reading about on the forums.

Myself, as well as most others have been known to try & emulate others styles & even certain images/scenes. This particular piece is definately hijacked no matter what you add to it.

kimpe, I hear you about GFX! Quest - I informed Clay & Agent Smith, although I don't think AS has received my message yet.

Imitation is the greatest for of flattery, so it has been said and I concur with what ICM just said, but this is image is 80% original. The light behind the castle has just been intensified to obscure things even more and, as JC stated, the cloning and brushed were used to cover up. The river, people, the stairs, the sky and on and on. I looked at this individuals work in the gallery and it's not bad. But this isn't just a sky or terrain backround that you can just drop into an image. It takes brass balls to try and pull off something like this and think that you can get away with it.

Hey, that stuff on the dragons' heads in the left pic is actually the wing of the dragon that was deleted in the right pic. Yup, waste not, want not. :-)

You will also notice that the right pic was taken directly from Allposters.com and is crisp, while the left pic has major jpg artifacting, (a copy of a copy)

Maybe we should recommend Image Doctor to him? :-)

Oh boy!!!!and I thought we were a nice bunch of folks here. Ban Him from any future H20's. Cheers GG.

well he did a good try but why remove the third dragon? lol at erlicks waste not want not comment that so funny just let him explain why he used the original. maybe it wasnt ill meant

I am wondering why the image is still there...

Tafkat, thank you for bringing this to my attention at least. I can't believe I was taken for such a fool by this person. I feel betrayed and angry, but I'm sure the REAL artist would feel ten times worse if and when he/she finds out! I'm saying it straight out. FUCK the Hot 20. It's a flawed idea and is useless. I'd like to see the people at Renderosity REALLY step up and do something, like just axe that section of the site completely, instead of worrying about the side-bar colors and other pointless idiocy. I didn't care who was popular in high school, and I don't care now. The person formerly known as an artist who straight-up STOLE the original idea needs to be boycotted. Cut off. This is unacceptable, and if it were my "art" being stolen, you can bet there would be legal action.

shadowdragonlord - well, there's only one fool in all this, and it isn't you or anyone here! This has happened several times recently, sometimes cleverly done and sometimes not so cleverly done (i.e. this one). I don't understand why the image hasn't been taken down however. The fact that it is still there after two days is giving off the wrong messages and will only encourage others to do the same thing.

Perhaps another comment should be posted on the image itself in big, bold, capitalized, different colored letters for viewers to come to this thread concerning the validity of the image.

It's been taken down. And, the whole thread makes me feel much better about the reference I made to Clay's submersible when I copied it as an exercise in boolean construction. I mean, inspriation is one thing, outright theft, not so good.

Indeed, Ricky... It's really quite cut and dry, to me. It's about intent, learning is one thing but presenting an entire image, ony slightly altered, is a different story! And trying to learn from another artist's work is IMPORTANT, but trying to steal another artist's glory is unacceptable... I'm glad 'Rosity did something right, it's kinda cool to know they are on top of things...

Yup, unacceptable, period. Picture was removed by Spike before I got to it. (I just got back from doing some pre-holiday family visiting) If anyone ever sees anything like this, be sure to tell us (the staff) about it! Thanks! AgentSmith

A good result then. Hope your family visiting went well, AS.

I agree with everyone's posts, but here's my question... HOW did this image get into the Hot20 anyway?? I mean, there seem to be a lot of images in there that aren't quite up to par with what I think are the best 20 images of the hundreds posted every day, but this one... Oh man Cory BS