Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=277309

Back from another trip to Indiana. Another one of dealing with the family. When I came back, I found a new comment on an old work, "Family Portrait II". greenbd said: "It's a pretty enough picture, but the theme is rather disturbing to me as one who's read a lot of the research on homosexual-parent families. As "loving" as they may be in some respects, it doesn't change the fact that the kid is growing up without a mother, and with a couple of men who are, from my traditionalist viewpoint, bad role models as far as sexuality is concerned. To various posters here: don't just assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a narrow-minded bigot. There are plenty of good social-policy reasons not to endorse this type of family situation, in addition to reasons stemming from religion, morality, and human nature. We can have a reasonable debate on this sort of thing." This is probably the nicest piece of bigotry I've read. Reasonable, and thought out. It's still bigoty, but at least he offered debate. However. It still misses the primary reason we post, to get help with our art. I don't post to get a debate going in the galleries. I post for advice on my art or to preview a project I'm going to be sharing with the community. This wasn't the kind of thing I needed after dealing with an uncle with colon cancer and a brother with testicaular cancer or my other half's brother who has bone and lung cancer and will be dead by Christmas. Every time I get a comment like this, I want to delete my gallery and say the hell with it all. Art, people. It's about Art.

(((hugs))) I am sorry you got a post like this. I will never understand why people feel that way. I was raised by my dad Not my mom, my mom left me and gave up on me a Long time ago I got put in foster homes just cause the state would rather I be in a foster home then raised by my dad, why cause I am female and he is not. He had to fight to get me back for three years. And trust me being bounced around the system is far worse then being raised by one or two men Or women :) I love my daddy Yes I call him daddy and I am grown with my own kids and would not care whom he would prefer to be with a woman or a man, cause he still took the best care of me that he could and he loves me. OK I went off here didn't I your art is fine, do not change it. Art comes from the heart and you should feel free to post about what is closest to your heart and should be able to do so with out others tearing apart the meaning. ((Hugs)) Take care and do not worry about what they posted.

pdxjims - don't let some narrow minded moron put you off you art and drive you away from this community. That idiot is in the minority. I say to hell with bigots. Sorry to hear 'bout your family problems - I do have some idea what you're going thru having lost my stepfather to cancer about 10 years ago. If you need someone to talk to I'm about most days (I'm on eastern side of the pond). BTW I like your art the composition. When I view a picture I'm looking at what methods they've used to get the look they do so I can improve my own pictures and composition. I also try to pass on helpful hints to other artists. So keep your chin up and remember, we do care and the majority of us are supportive and not small minded bigots.

What I find disturbing is this same mentality actually prefers Dad to come home drunk, sit his ass on the couch, watch football, drink some Jack Daniels from the bottle, then proceed to beat on Mom.
Anything as long as it's hetero???

Ignore these comments, these people will die out just like the dinosaurs.

I don't agree with the post in your gallery, but I feel that I have to raise a point here. It's unhelpful for people who defend you to call the guy (gal?) a cretin. If the guy was a cretin, the post would have been much more illiterate and abrasive. The guy has a point of view. I don't agree with it, but I respect his right to express it. First of all, I don't think any of us (least of all you) would deny that person their right to comment. Correct? Even though we may not agree with the sentiments expressed, he/she still has the right to say what he/she thinks. The image is in a public gallery and open for comments. QED. But my point is this. You said 'It still misses the primary reason we post, to get help with our art'. Well, I agree with that too, but I believe that images (like everything else in this world) are political. (By 'political', I mean people will take a stance on the subject matter, depending on their social/moral POV). In other words, by the subject matter you choose, politics are automatically introduced into an image. You can't help but be political, unless you stick to inoffensive things like puppies and bowls of flowers. You posted an image which (presumably) contained subject matter which was open to debate - ie. 'political', therefore the guy exercised his right to comment. I absolutely don't think the galleries should be used to express political comments. But unfortunately, in this day and age, it's almost unavoidable that someone will do it. I would prefer that people slammed the guy for posting in the wrong place, rather than for what he believes to be right or wrong. mac

One quick addition, Re the ground shadows - Have you tried checking the ground prop (or whatever it is) to see if 'cast shadows' is checked? I discovered that if it's UNchecked, the ground will not only, not cast shadows, but it won't RECEIVE them either. mac PS I notice most of other comments are 'political' too. Which sort of proves my point that if you post a political image, you'll get political comments.

pdxjims, I haven't seen the image, but I can tell you right now that I'd rather see a picture that depicts love and caring, especially for children, than some of the monstrosities I've seen in the galleries that show violence, especially toward women and children. A loving family relationship is the issue here, and the person making the statements was just trying to use it to make a social or political comment. Don't pay any attention to it. Just keep doing your art and ignore the idiots who criticize. Don't give them the attention they're seeking. Oh, and, pdxjims, I'm so sorry to hear about the illness in your relatives, and welcome back home to Portland! :) Melanie

I woulnd't let someone like this get to you. It's obvious that this person has yet to experience an open mind. I believe as long as a child is raised in love, no matter what sex the raisining parents are, that a child is raised well. Love is a good growing element for children, not hate. If two parents no matter their sex hate each other and only stay together for a child, then that child will grow in hate. Love is the key here, I wouldn't let someone like this get to you. Some peoples children never really learn to have an open mind and you've just got to learn to ignore them. You know like speed bumps on the road of life, so be it. sooner or later they'll crack and have to replaced with a personality.---Essie

Yes Karen, there are, as you just proved yourself. You know, most of you in this post are playing holier-than-thou (the "cretin" or "dickhead" comemnts). The person posted an opinion. He/she is allowed to. Too many people on this board get hysterical when anything non-postive is posted about there picture, and come whining and crying into this forum. I am sorry if not everyone can post a kumbaya type response to every single picture in the galleries. I guess we should change the comments to read "Only post those comments that will offend noone or are unilaterally postive". Let's say I am an atheist, I guess I can go and post pictures (let's say a picture of Mike pisssing on a pictural representation of the Virgin Mary/Victoria), and then act offened if Catholics post shock and disdain regarding my picture. It is bound to happen, and I should expect over time at least some negative response. Same thing if I were to post a negative representation of George Bush (yes I am an American). Even though the picture would represent a fair point of view, I would at least expect some negative reaction from somewhere/sometime. Same thing if I posted a glowing representation of Bush. Life sucks sometimes. It cannot always be filtered for your viewing pleasure. Accept it as an observation, and move on. Pdxjims, please develop a bit thicker skin. Your work has always been of a very high quality. Take pride in that, and that the vast majority of people either actually enjoy your work and are ambivalent. Face it, not everyone thinks the Beatles were the greatest thing to ever happen to rock n roll (myself included). Play the martyr card, if you must, but by just ignoring it completely, it makes you better than all of the negative comments.

Well, miaow Ryamka, handbags at dawn! We've been over and over this discussion of "don't enable comments if you don't want critique." I agree with that. Nobody, least of all pdxjims from what he said earlier, wants a bunch of comments just saying "Oh wow! You rock!" But this person didn't post any comment at all on the image itself, but for "It's a pretty picture, but..." How much use is that in developing your talent? If he hadn't found something to disagree with in the subject matter, he wouldn't have posted at all, I dare say. And there's a big different between a picture which sets out to offend a whole group of people, as in your examples, and a picture which simply has a theme that some reactionary determines as against their personal ethics. What I really resent is the implcation that any time a member of a minority speaks up when they've been discriminated against or otherwise put down, they're playing the "martyr card". Freedom of speech is extended to all (including dickheads, even when we don't like what they say) and that includes the right to say when we feel belittled and stereotyped. Discrimination against someone on the basis of their sex, race, orientation or religion has slowly become unnacceptable over the last few years... as it should be. The laws that protect our rights didn't come into being because we just ignored the put-downs, slurs, and stereotypes. Discrimination, hatred and ignorance should always be challenged, even when instinct tells me it's a losing battle. I'll never stop speaking out.

Ummm. I hate to weigh in on a subject where the less said the better, but I have to agree with Maclean. You're posting in a public gallery and asking for comments. You got 'em. I'd also question the choice of having these guys in nothing but their shorts. If the point is that gay families are like any other family, then I'd expect your guys to be a little less stereotyped. . .you've got two beefy gayclones, one in very short shorts, what's the point here? If I'm doing a straight family scene, and mom's got a thong bikini, and dad's wearing bulge revealing tight shorts, I'd think that was weird, too. .. And what's the deal with the muscles? My guess is that gay guys, like straight ones, spend a little less time at the gym when they start having a family. . .you don't get your kid to school, hold down a job, and maintain the washboard abs. . . Take a look at "Love makes a family" --photojournalist essay on gay families-- for a realistic look at what gay families look like.

Actually, if you read the comments, there was a comment made long before the one in question, which could I find even more offensive. 'Hey, Jim, Great image. Let's hope the new, right-wing, fascist, conservative, ultra-religious, uneducated, environmentally unfriendly, closeminded, republican, racist regime that is now in place as of Nov. 5th, doesn't make this an image that we can only dream about. Well Done. Love the bods!...' I happen to agree with that, (although I certainly wouldn't express myself that way). I would hope that the scene pxdjims created could one day be accepted without a second thought. But what's the difference between those 2 comments? The answer is a big NOTHING. Neither of them 'help with the art'. They're both equally bigoted, just from different points of view. And the one I quoted is a LOT more offensive in tone. At least the guy who disagreed with the image expressed himself politely. mac

pdxjims I am sorry to hear your family is going through so much right now. I send you nothing but the best of wishes. As for your picture, I love the expression on the little boys face it was marvelous and happy, the face all little ones should wear! Please don't let others words about your art bother you, there will always be those that like or dislike anything any of us do no matter what it is or how it's done. If you like it, and you are happy with it, then you have done a job worth being proud of.

pdxjims, my thoughts and prayers are with you, we just went through the loss of our grandson, and hopefully with the Grace of God, you will get through this hard time. God Bless! Sallie

I am very sorry, but a person displaying his thoughts and feelings is not always political. If this is pdxjims's idea of a loving, carying family,why should he think twice about posting the picture, becuase some people might see it "political"? If that's his idea of love - there's nothing political about it. He didn't do anything to offend anyone. There is no violence in this image. There's just a family portrait, as he precieves it. Nothing political, in my point of view. pdxjims - I don't know you personally, but I think you do some excellent and emotional work. Keep it up, and don't let others discourage you just because they see you as "political". I'm very sorry for your misfortunes... I do hope things will work out for you. Anat.

remember I and other have your back and very much want you here dont let them get you down!!!!!!!!!

holier-than-thou Yeah, uh-huh, right. Spare me, huh? Moving on...

I don't understand anyone's objection to the image. Is it because the men are only partially dressed? If so, then some people need to get a life. The gallery is full of scantily clad women with children. Jim, your work is excellent as usual. You add a very human element to all of your images ;)

I totally agree with A_. Everyone's vision of "family" and love is different. Not everyone has or ever had the "traditional" Mom, Dad, and the kids thing going on. Whether there is one Mom, one Dad, two Moms, two Dads, or one of each, what difference does it really make if the children are loved and cared for and happy?? UGH. And what the heck does it all have to do with ART??? pdx...here's a great big ((((HUGGGG)))) to you and your family, and I hope you guys had a wonderful Thankdgiving. :) Blessings, Tricia

A_ and rhiafaery, You obviously don't understand what I mean by 'political'. Any image becomes political when it portrays a scene that could be considered controversial, or could be open to different points of view. Example - I do a render of a nun with her breasts showing. That's what I mean by 'political'. Some people would laugh at it, others would say it's offensive, others would say it's sacrilege, etc, etc. I have no, repeat, NO problem with pxdjims concept of a family. But his image makes a statement that is open to discussion, depending on your moral POV. And he put it in a public gallery with comments enabled. That's why it's political and that's why a lot of the comments in the gallery praise or blast it from a social/moral POV. The reason he singled this particular comment out is because the person disagrees with him, which I think is unfair. Even though I ALSO disagree with that person. He has as much right as all the others who agreed with the scene to make his feelings known. I have zero tolerance for bigots and fanatics, but there is such a thing as discussion and education. You listen to other people, then tell them why you think they're wrong, and try to teach them better. Not call them cretins because they don't agree with you. mac

What I find disturbing is this same mentality actually prefers Dad to come home drunk, sit his ass on the couch, watch football, drink some Jack Daniels from the bottle, then proceed to beat on Mom. Anything as long as it's hetero??? Ignore these comments, these people will die out just like the dinosaurs.<< If that's all you think heterosexuality is then you know why heteros are defensive about homosexuals. Also you don't know much about heterosexuality. Sorry you think that's all heteros are about. And I agree with Jackson's post. Dickhead? Cretin? Neanderthal? Dinosaur? Lot's of name calling for such enlightened, superior people. But I guess name calling is OK when you're an "oppressed class". As Marx says, "You can't oppress the oppressor." At least the original poster didn't call names. Their post was not an art critique so it had no place in the art forum but they didn't name call. But I have seen some comments by homosexuals harping on pics about hetero families. Nobody complains then. Also, no matter how gay or lesbian you are, the act of heterosexuality had a part in your life irregardless. It takes a sperm and an egg. You weren't zapped into existance. That's a pretty important act coming from a bunch of so called dickheaded, wife beating, Jack Daniels drunk, cretin, neanderthal, Archie Bunkers. If you really think heteros are going to "disappear" then you better get that whole cloning thing all straightened out before they do disappear. The scariest dialog is when one group talks about another "disappearing".

mac - but that's exactly my point. If you do a picture of a nun with her breasts showing, you MEAN to be political. If a guy does a family portrait of 2 men and a child, he doesn't necessarily mean to be political. I am a jew. If I do an image of a jew, I don't mean to be political, I'm just being who I am. You see my point? Him being a minority doesn't make him political.

And he shouldn't have to "bear the flag" everytime he wants to portray his feelings. pdxjims - I hope this thread isn't hurting your feelings in any sort of way. Please, if it offends you, let us know. I will remove myself from it at once.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=193

Hi everyone Just a freindly reminder when posting to the Forum or to Gallery images: **Member/User Conduct:** Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is **constructive and respectful of others at all times.** Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

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If you receive what you feel are "trolling comments" under your image (or you view any image that you feel contains "trolling comments")- Please contact a moderator - that is what we are here for :) Also, it is not against Rosity's TOS to disagree with a member, however, please refrain from calling members "derogatory names" when posting to the forums. Lastly, comments posted under gallery images should be directed toward the image as noted above the gallery comment box: "Your helpful comments for improving this image" Thanks for your understanding in this matter ladynimue moderator

And so the IQ of this place slips yet a few more points. Figures. It wouldn't be so annoying save that we didn't see this kind of nonsense over the vast preponderance of images glorifying death and guns and weaponry, not to mention casual sex and objectification of women -- and since we're all supposed to be so enlightened and open to dialogue, would someone kindly point me to the threads where those are discussed in a mature way? Instead, anytime those issues are raised, look at the responses, kids, and show me where those posts get deleted "because they're not following the proper protocols of respect for our fellow members." But bring this one up and nope: we have to look at it with compassion and understanding for the other person's opinion, no matter how Jurassic it might be. I'm sure there's an explanation for this. Anyone want to give it a try? Just make it probable, okay?

pdxjims ask admins to delete the posts and forget the idiots. If you don't want to do that ignore them. I would much rather see families of all kinds rather than just hetro because guess what guys they are out there. and as for the studies that greenbd referenced. Never trust a study. All studies are bought and paid for by someone. And that person always has an agenda to pursue. Cig smoking is bad for your health and causes cancer, -study paid for by... the cancer institute. Gay and lesbian parenting causes social problems - paid for by.. Anti Gay and Lesbian collation. Quoting studies really is just a bunch of bull and proves nothing in the long run. An educated person realizes the studies are just that, a bunch of numbers to indicate what someone else wants to show. Forget the fools. Keep postin, and know that no matter what anyone else says.. It is the art that is important. Not the rest of the bs.

The only IQs that slip are the ones that use invalidation to make a point. You can make your point without name calling. And check the threads. There have been scores of posts complaining about "girls in brass bikinis in temples" or women with large endowments. A thread not 2 days back was locked cause someone didn't post a nudity flag showing off a female character who was not exposing genetilia but was nude. Lots of petty complaints and special hurt feelings to go around. Also, about objectifaction of women, I have seen lots of "stud" pics posted to the galleries as well. Pics of leather derby wearing muscle guys with huge sexual organs and long 70s mustaches or semi nude and nude muscle guys out in the woods enjoying each other's company. So I'm curious if that is also objectification? Or is that definition a one way street and when peoples of alternate sexual persasions take an interest in someone sexually that's not objectification? Again, a sexy woman on the cover of Playboy is objectification. A sexy woman on the cover of Cosmo is harmless even if both women are dressed the same. Perhaps I and others SHOULD complain about how those big muscle guys are presented as nothing more than sex objects for certain peoples' sexual gratification and how those men are being exploited. Or is it only women that can be exploited? But you're right. Nobody complains about that now do they? Don't homosexual men also deserve protection from sexual exploitation and objectification? Or can the guys on the cover of Men's magazine be oggled at since men can't be exploited. But I do agree with one of your points. There are far worse things posted in the gallery than two average guys and a kid being a family.

I repeat ... For those who might have not read my previous posting to this thread ... Member/User Conduct: Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

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Also, it is not against Rosity's TOS to disagree with a member, however, please refrain from calling members "derogatory names" when posting to the forums. If this thread continues its path down a non-constructive "Posting" road. It will be locked. Thank you for your understanding. ladynimue moderator

A_,

I agree with you absolutely 100%. When I said the image was political, I wasn't saying that pxdjims meant it that way. My point was that no matter how hard we try, nowadays, it's difficult not to be political. Because there's always someone, somewhere who'll take offence, or even just disagree with the content and say so. So, if you publicly post an image like that, you're letting yourself in for it.

I also agree with Mason. It's gotten to the point where there are no minorities any more. Everybody's a victim. Everybody wants to stand up and say their bit about how they're opressed or whatever. And everybody, if they want to, can find something to feel put down about.

I'm a scotsman and I love scottish jokes. You know - the mean scotsman, etc, etc. I think they're a hoot. Why? a) because I know they're not true. It's just a stereotype - and b) because I don't take them as being personally aimed at me.

I said it before, but it evidently needs to be repeated. I think the comment in the gallery was totally inappropriate, but.... so were all the other ones which praised the image's moral content without mentioning the artistic value. And that's why I'm objecting to this guy being singled out for being the only person to make a negative comment.

mac

Sorry, ladynimue, I cross-posted with you. But I don't think I was being derogatory, was I? I hope not. It's not my style. mac

Ok, I see your point, mac. :) I really do think this discussion could go on and on and on, but I'm getting wayy too tired for this... and am struggling to keep my eyes open, so trying to express myself (and in English, no less) is getting harder by the minute. :) So I'm off to sleep right now. I hope no one is offended, and pxdjims, once again - my heart goes out for you and your family. I wish you all the best. Anat.

Thanks Mac and A_ ladynimue

I have removed all the gallery comments that did not in some way pertain to the artist's work in the above image. ladynimue

So, lets consider this matter closed. Thanks everyone for your understanding and for sharing your views in a constructive manner. ladynimue

It has been along time since I have seen such rubbish wrapped up in such a pretty wrapper. Posting that in a gallery image is just a soapbox attemp to warn against the mythical evils of homosexuality. The person who posted the comment should be spoken to and have it explained to them that Renderosity is a gay friendly site.

Okay, my first post in this thread--which was number 14--got deleted because I'd repeated a bad word someone used. So I'll repeat what I said in that post and replace the bad word with asterisks. Here goes: "Lemmee see... Bigot, cretin, narrow-minded, moron, idiot, ********. Wow, all that in just 12 posts for a guy who expressed his opinion. Who are the real bigots here? pdxjims: I am very sorry to hear of your misfortune. PS: The pic does not offend me."

"Who are the real bigots here?" Oh Jacksom paahlease. :) Respectfully an opinion becomes an agenda when it serves an alterior motive. His was not an opinion. It was so much more than that. hehe

Yeah looks like my second post got deleted as well. Oh well.

People are encouraged to give their opinions, pro or anti whatever, so long as they comment on facts and opinions, not on other posters. You can say an opinion is ludicrous or just plain stupid, but do not say that about the person who posted it. Not only do personal attacks go against the TOS, but they weaken your position by making it look like you have nothing to back up your point of view. Thanks, Cres

It was me who posted a bad word and I'm sorry to any who were offended. I'll remember to cool off and review my post before I hit the button next time :-S pdxjims, I'd like to reiterate my support, and I am sorry for your family's troubles right now. My thoughts are with you and them.

I grow up with a mother and a father they both abused me. I wish I had a family like your's pdxjims. It doesn't matter if you have two mother's two father's a mother and a father as long as the child feels the love and the ones who take care really take care of the child. In my country we think very different. Here two man or two woman can get married legaly. We have a reallife soap on our television about a well known man his friend and his two adopted children. Why can't we respect each other for who we are isn't that the most important thing to look at the human?

I really wonder if the whole dream of America as a diverse, pluralistic shining example was ever a real possibility or just a bill of goods they sold us in civics class. Certainly these days, it seems to have broken down into us vs. them, the red states vs. the blue and you're either with us or against us - bring 'em on. How we expect to teach the Sunnis and the Sjia to get along is beyond me when we seem to be on the brink of waging a holy war amongst ourselves. Pdxjims, I'm sorry for your troubles.

Since this thread is getting further and further from its original intent - "why do members post rude comments under gallery images" and since the image that was originally mentioned was a Poser Image, this thread was not moved to the OT forum. However, since the nature of this post has gone from "why do people post rude comments under gallery images" to "name calling, finger pointing, and nothing to do with Poser Art" I am locking the thread - Thanks again for those of you who have commented to this thread in a constructive manner. Please remember, that when someone views a trolling comment under an image, to please contact a moderator, who will review the comment and deal with the member who placed the comment! ladynimue