Attached Link: http://secure.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=1812

http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=19147

http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=19707

Wondered that myself. Need to find out because I bought it without thinking, but I got it here first. Marque

I believe he sold it to daz.

Then why is it still listed as a Renderosity exclusive????? Marque

I'd like to know that, too, cuz I just bought it here a few days ago...needless to say I'm -not- really happy ...

I love that set... only.. I bought it here... and not for 1.99.. grumble

Well, I knew that it HAD been for sale here (that's where I bought it, and yes, I was chagrined to find it in the PC for $1.99, but I can live with it). Perhaps someone forgot to pull it from the store... bonni

The temple ruins here have 2 parts. I purchased both for $24, now I feel like a fool! :( Mazak

That seems to be the trend... I bought alot of DarkWhisper's stuff at full price... then suddenly it starts appearing at DAZ for $1.99... I feel used and abused!

Hankster had put a warning some days ago about this and had indicated the Ruins pack would be removed from here when they became available at DAZ . He didn't say they would become PC items, though (or I don't remember him mentioning it). Dark Whisper's removed MP items are also appearing at DAZ as PC items. I too have bought both Ruins pack (a while ago, so I can't complain) and like them a lot. For those who bought the packs recently, I'd sugest hunting for Hankster's post and see exactly what he says.

But Darkwhisper sold his earlier stuff to DAZ, he announced it on his webpage and as far as I know has taken down the items from r'osity. Its like buying a CD when it comes out, if you wait 6 months you'll get the same CD with a bonus disc containing 6 extra songs on it :-)

"He didn't say they would become PC items, though" I think the merchant(s) can not be held responsible for that. Once DAZ acquired the products, it is DAZ to own them and to decide what use to make of them. They can sell it in PC or even make them disappear. Hankster can not do anything about it.

I received an E-Mail last night to remove the products... Doing it now.. FYI, Clint MarketPlace Manager

Geesh, thank goodness I didn't by this yesterday like I considered because I would have been really been cheesed off!

I don't think anybody should be getting too mad at the situation. It's like getting upset at somebody buying a better computer today for less money than you paid two years ago. If the money was spent wisely and some enjoyment came out of using the product in the interim, then it was a worthwhile purchase. The Poser community is in the midst of a change. It used to mostly be high end hobbyists/artists that could afford pricey models. With the PC Club, and other budget content markets, and Poser 5's lower price, Poser use is opening up to a larger group of users. For the most part, that can be beneficial because the more people are purchasing content, the more (everybody can hope) profitable the market can become and that will introduce new and better products. I can philosphically look at spending $300 for 4 Mb of RAM and $250 for a 20 Mb hard drive for early computers. That's just the what it cost back then. Now it's happening with models. The main gripe should be that DAZ ought to add a note to a product, that has been available previously at their site or elsewhere, so that customers will know not to buy something they've already paid for. I don't think that DAZ should be blamed for buying up content to better stock the PC Club or the Premier stores with "DAZ Original" so that the Club has more content and Premier has more products for vouchers to be used on. It sounds like DAZ is listening to customer concerns about those areas. I can't blame anybody for being a bit upset over spending more for something's that cheaper now, but it's not very different from computer and electronics going down in price over the years or software, video games, CDs and DVDs being cheaper after they've been out for a while. Anybody who needs something right away usually pays a premium over somebody willing to wait. It's taken a little longer for that to happen to 3D content. There's a new customer base, like me, that hadn't been buying 3D content in the past, but are now spending money for things that are more affordable for hobby use.

But rreynolds, I am POed - that people are buying computers better then mine for less! Heck, the price I paid 4 years ago for a PIII650 with 253RAM would now buy a PIV-1GIG with a GIGRAM, faster bus, and HD twice as large...and I'd still have money left over. Dang it, this system can't even be upgraded to that!!

Basically, what this really means is: A Renderosity Exclusive (or any site exclusive) is only exclusive until someone decides to sell it somewhere else. Without some sort of contract (that binds the seller for some duration), I guess I'll think of "exclusive" as meaning: I can only get it at "that" certain place FOR NOW but that it could change any day in the future.

Arrgh! I purchased both parts a few days ago too! There was a sale going on, but they were not that cheaper... :( I hope his Eclipse car will not surface in the platinum club too! Well I think that my renderosity wishlist is going to remain that in the future... a wish list. I'll not risk that something like this happen again. A lot of the best merchants are going exclusive with DAZ it seems... I 'll wait and see.

"Basically, what this really means is: A Renderosity Exclusive (or any site exclusive) is only exclusive until someone decides to sell it somewhere else. Without some sort of contract (that binds the seller for some duration), I guess I'll think of "exclusive" as meaning: I can only get it at "that" certain place FOR NOW but that it could change any day in the future." Please don't paint every merchant with the same brush. Though it may hold true for some, not all feel that way, and when product buyouts were offered I know of more than a few that turned them down.

The main gripe should be that DAZ ought to add a note to a product, that has been available previously at their site or elsewhere, so that customers will know not to buy something they've already paid for.

This is equivalent to Walmart putting tags on everything that's available at say....Sears or elsewhere "Beware! You may have already purchased this at Sears for a higher price!!" DAZ should not have to be responsible for our inability to keep track of what we buy at other places. That's why we have accounts to track our purchase histories. ;) "Formerly sold at Renderosity" "Formerly sold at Runtime DNA" "Formerly sold at PoserPros" "Formerly at Poserstyle" "Formerly at Poserworld" "Formerly sold at Philc.net" "Formerly sold at 3D Commune" "Formerly sold at 3D Arena" "Formerly sold at Rendervisions" "Formerly at Baument" "Formerly at Fairywilde" "Formerly sold at Renderotica" "Formerly sold at Sixus Media" etc, etc, etc, etc It would get ridiculous after a while. It's also tatamount to free advertising for other sites - why would DAZ do that??

The product descriptions both at here and DAZ are pretty good at listing exactly what comes in a particular package. I think it's reasonable to expect that a consumer would read the package description and be responsible for knowing what he or she has already bought. And, in any doubt, write the merchant to ask whether it's the same product that was sold elsewhere. Further, there is no other line of commerce in which the merchant has an implied expectation of guaranteeing the price of an item. There are stores that do guarantee prices ("If you find this product for a lower price anywhere within thirty days after purchase, we will refund the difference"), but these are special, clearly stated exceptions. However, merchants do have a responsibility to guard against false or misleading statements, and if the item was simultaneously being sold at DAZ while also sold here as an exclusive item, that's a problem. The original artist has the responsibility of letting DAZ know of the prior exclusivity deal with Renderosity, DAZ has the responsibility of informing Renderosity that it has purchased the item with enough advance notice that Renderosity can remove the exclusivity claim, and then Renderosity has to prompty remove the exclusivity claim. If anyone bought the item from Renderosity during the time that the item carried the exclusivity tag and was actually offered from DAZ, that person should track down exactly who did not carry through with their responsibility. The exclusivity tag acts as a notice to the buyer that the buyer does not have to do comparison shopping.

Frankly I think it is very simple: Things change and people need to learn to Deal With It.

This seems grossly unfair to people who bought the product only a few days ago. OTOH, while I admire people like Judith who refuse buyouts out of loyalty to previous customers, that seems like it might be carrying loyalty a bit too far. I don't think she has to deprive herself or possible future customers forever. If I were DAZ, here's what I would do: pull the products off the market entirely for a period of time. Maybe six months for something like the Temple Ruins, maybe less for less expensive item. Then put them in the PC. That way, you won't have anyone who just bought it the day before for twenty times as much. Everyone who bought at the higher price will have had several months lead time (at least) to use the product, and won't feel so ripped off.

OTOH, while I admire people like Judith who refuse buyouts out of loyalty to previous customers, that seems like it might be carrying loyalty a bit too far. I don't think she has to deprive herself or possible future customers forever. I would think though that if Judith and Chris decided to reduce their prices on anything that the logical move would be to put it into Real Deals at RDNA at $2.50 rather then sell it outright to DAZ. This way two things happen, they receive the benefit of even more sales at a reduced price and still retain their intellectual and creative copyrights on what they have created, which is not what happens when brokers sell their items to DAZ. DAZ receives not only the product but all of the rights as well. However, I highly doubt that they would decide to put anything that has been for sale previously into Real Deals. They'll just create something wonderful specifically for Real Deals instead. I admire the loyalty to their customers, it's rare anymore in this day and age. The fact that I know if I purchase something from Transpond today, knowing that it will not be sold anywhere else for 1.99 or even 2.50 tomorrow or even six months down the road, means a lot to me.

Well, exclusivity, in the way that I understand it, usually entails a contract for a specified amount of time. It doesn't mean much if an item (I don't care what item or where) is advertised as exclusive at some location only and yet the next day it can be purchased somewhere else. I'd certainly hate to buy a numbered print (1 of 500) only to find the artist decided to raise it to a 1,000 because it sold so well. Not entirely the same but similar.

Yes, I did sell my Temple Ruins products to DAZ, but I did not have any idea that they were going to sell it at a $1.99. I didn't even know what the Platinum Club was until I checked that area of DAZ's site today. It seems you have to pay around $100/yr for the priviledge to buy certain items for the $1.99 price. Still it is a bit insulting to see my work available at such a low price but unfortunately it is out my control now. Also, I do feel badly for the customers that purchased the Ruins during the December sale period, so I will be contacting them to offer one of my current or soon to be release products for free so that they hopefully won't be too put off by the whole thing.

There is no reason to feel bad about this. The simple reality is that no matter WHAT happens someday the proce of a product will drop. Thats simply the way the market is... thats the way ALL markets are. Is it unfortunate when you buy something and it turns up on sale? Sure. But do I feel that any merchant I ever bought something from has a responsability to make sure they never take a good offer to sell their product, or never lower their price? Hell no.

That's very decent of you. I had a feeling you didn't know, or you'd at least have pulled the product earlier. The Platinum Club has been a bit controversial lately. Most people don't pay the full $100 to join. The initial offer was half price, I think -- $49.95. And once you're in, you can re-up at discount. ($69 or something like that.) Plus they give you $5 vouchers each month, and last month offered a $30 voucher and hundreds of dollars worth of free products for renewing. It's put a lot of downward pressure on prices, I think. So you have the "Real Deals" at RDNA, the Pro Club at PoserPros, etc. And now DAZ is buying up all this outside stuff and putting it the Platinum Club. People who bought at the higher prices naturally get really aggravated. (There was a similar brouhaha over Dark Whisper's Teresa last week.) And I have a feeling merchants who are trying to compete also get pretty aggravted. When quality stuff like your Temple Ruins or DQ's Teresa can be had for $1.99, it's hard for other merchants to charge $25 or $30 for their stuff. The Platinum Club is a great deal for us buyers, and I'm a member, but sometimes I wonder if it's good for the community in the long run. Kind of like Wal-Mart...

Hankster: it's unfortunate that you feel insulted seeing the temple ruins at the PC price. It really is an incredible looking product. But if it helps any, the PC has a lot of really good looking products. That's what makes the club so appealing to me as a customer--knowing that it does contain such qualiy merchandise and not only "bargain" quality stuff. Think of it this way: I doubt any insult was intended. If anything it's a major selling point for the platinum club and a major enticement for people to join. It's like saying "hey, join the plantinum club. We have incredible stuff like the Temple Ruins for our members." And also I don't know if it makes a difference to you, but it's not a PC exclusive item. Meaning non PC members can buy it, but they pay a higher price ($30 I think). Anyway just another viewpoint to consider. And I know I said it already but I'm gonna say it again: it really is gorgeous!

I think for many selling stuff to Daz is a smart career move, depending on what you are aiming for. I think that Daz is usually thought of as "the place to be", in that, if your work makes it to Daz, it is usually thought to be of a seriously high quality. I know I tend to trust Daz merchants/purchases a lot more than the same at other places. I mean, really, if I have any issues there's always that lovely 30-day money-back deal. ;) If I see that someone sells stuff at Daz, say, for example, Xena, then I see that she also has stuff over at Poserpros, I am more likely to buy her stuff over at Poserpros as well. There is no insult in having things put into the section of their store that has membership requirements! Plus as was mentioned, non-members can buy it at a much higher price.

If a CD contains something that has been available before it usually has a "Contains previously released material" notice (on the back). It would not be unreasonable to expect DAZ to do the same, but it would still be up to you to check whether you had bought the previous version.

Hankster just pointed me to this thread and I too bought the 2 Poser versions last week. I thought I'd get them 'cos one of them was on sale and R'osity sent me an ebot 'cos it was on my wishlist, but of course they didn't tell me it was going to be available at DAZ or that it would be in the PC. I guess R'osity wants to get as many penny's from these models as it can before it's got to give them up. 8( Catlin

I want to make it clear that Renderosity did nothing wrong here. The only blame should fall on me. I had sold the rights of the model to DAZ but I thought that before I turned over ownership, I thought I would give some Renderosity members who only purchased Part I a chance to have Part II as well. I knew DAZ was going to combine the two models, so it was going to be unfair to those who had purchase Part I to buy the whole thing just to get Part II. The only way I could quickly reach the members that might be interested in Part II was to hold a sale so that they would get the ebot emails. Now, I never had sale before in all my time here at Renderosity because I don't ever want to upset the customers that buy my products early on. I am not part of the Renderosity warehouse program and feel that the people that buy the product first should get the lowest possible price (the first 3DS release of the Ruins was priced at $20). Where this whole thing went wrong was DAZ decided to release the product even though I still had it up at Renderosity and decided to have it as a part of their Platinum Club package. If DAZ had stuck to their $30 reg and $21 sale price then all this would have been a non-issue. At this point I am a bit more wiser and will be more careful in the future to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

Oh well, to err is human and crossed wires happen all the time so I guess no one is really to blame for this little muckle, other than DAZ being too quick off the mark. Then again, with the quality of your models Hankster they probably just couldn't wait to get it on show. 8) Catlin

I bought both here for 24 bucks and feel very foolish :(

I bought the Temple Ruins here for $24 bucks and Dark Whisper's Teresa for what - $15 or something like that? So I feel twice as foolish. It's getting to the point where I almost dread looking in the Platinum Club, for fear of what I'll see...that I already bought for a lot more money here. :-P

I bought Part I when it first came out for $12.00, and I feel like I got my money's worth. I picked up Part II for something like $9.50 this past Monday, so I only feel I'm out $7.50 -- not worth getting too worked up over.

I'm curious to see how effective Daz's strategy of buying the rights to quality items, then adding them into the Platinum Club as loss leaders, will be. It seems to me that the Temple Ruins is there basically to promote the pricier Return to Fantasy items, plus placate demanding PC members. If I'm reading this thread correctly, the hankster didn't see this coming when he sold the rights to DAZ, and I'm assuming wouldn't agree to the same terms if given a chance to do this over. I wonder how many other merchants are willing to see their models' prices slashed by 90%, essentially to help DAZ market other people's products.

The best thing is if you bought something here and find it later by DAZ in the free section that makes you even more foolish :(

However the Ruins are only 1.99 fpr PC members- if non-PC members want to buy them the price is regular, so I don't see how these terms could be a problem.

I bought both part I and part II absolutely ages ago. As Hankster hasn't ahd a sale (and I know I didn't buy them on release but drooled over them for some time) I gues sI paid full price. I have NO qualms abotu that, and do not feel cheated that theya r enow available in the DAz PC for $1.99 (I am a PC member btw so wouldn't pay the full retail DAZ price if buying but the $1.99). The Platinum Club is, as has been remarked before, a club you have to pay to join (unlike RDNA Real Deals etc.). It has a certain price tag and "exclusivity" all its own. To be a PC product is NOT, I assure you, an insult at all! My only gripe, in fact, is that I cannot make use of the $1.99 deal because I already own a copy of the ruins (parts 1&2) and seemingly cannot sell or even give that away (legally) in order to buy myself a new copy. This is where, I feel, the analogy to other markets falls short, because there you CAN pass on (sell or give away) your old PC hardware/telly/games console when you buy a new one. It's always possible that this clause is illegal, but who cares to test that? So overall, aside from wishing tha tI COULD spend yet more money on the model but cannot sensibly do so, I think it's great that DAZ is actively trying to fill in the holes in their product offerings with quality items from other merchants. To get NEW previously unseen products from them instead would, of course, be even better. Cheers, Cliff Bowman

As I re-read my thread, I think I shouldn't have speculated what the hankster would do, since I don't know him. So let me offer a general apology, rather than delete my post. (I hate when that happens). Cliff: Yeah sotware licenses are like that. Some companies let you transfer ownership, some don't.

The only reason I really think any of us should feel foolish about having bought something full price here or DAZ or any other site would be if there had been enough forethought on both parties (creator & site) to know that such a future price cut was going to be available. Did Dark Whisper/3D Universe forsee their stuff being integrated into DAZ at much reduced prices? Did the hankster?? I doubt it. If we paid $24 (or whatever price) for something, then we felt the item was very well worth the price. It's not fair to yourself 1/2/3/4 months down the road to kick yourself in the head or feel foolish for having spent money on something you wanted and afforded at that time. Nor is it fair to expect a company, after it's bought the rights to an item, to price it comparably. They could have made it a much more expensive item if they had a mind to! Heck, we all may as well never buy anything for fear of it being cheaper in the future. ;)

As far as the PC goes - a lot of the free stuff they gave away for a renewal, I already had. So did many other people. I'm not gonna worry about it. Not to mention a lot of the products that have become PC items. What I've saved for what I spent to be a PC member and PC member purchases far outweighs any possible dissappointment I would have over what I 'could have' saved if I had precognition.

Hi
I bought Both set 1 & 2 here at Renderosity the day before they were placed for sale at DAZ .
I am a member of the Daz Platinum Club.

When I bought the ruins I felt like the Hankster was giving me a great deal. I still do.
Would I pay 8 times the platinum club price again if I had to, to get the ruins set? YES cause they are beautiful, & after rendering a few times I am even more satisfied.

Yes... had I known they were going to Daz & waited a day I would have gotten a better deal....but
Hankster Renderosity or, Daz for that matter, do not push the "Purchase" button for me....
I am responsible for my own decisions. I wanted them. I bought them when I wanted them. And I received a quality product at a fair price here at Renderosity.
And thats that.

I feel Lucky & blessed that I have enough $, to able to support poser community artists by purchasing their items.
and I feel even Luckier when I find that Daz has placed
any of the leading artists content In Platinum Club.!

Looking forward to the next awesome creation by the Hankster...
Tybalt