Ok, someone brought up a very interresting point to me in IM about my freebies. And I'm very curious to compare my thoughts with yours.. What does "for non-commercial use only" mean to YOU? Not by the books, but to you, as people, who contribute and download freebies. I honestly can't remember if i checked it intentionally, or if it was just that way, but i do have posted on the site, for non-commercial only. I guess to me...what it basicly means....is 1. Don't turn around and sell it as yours, even with a new texture. 2. Don't add it to a bunch of other things and sell a "collection" and 3. Don't add something to it and sell it as yours. (example: the vase- don't add flowers and sell it as a decoration) But really, I dont' see anything wrong with adding it to say a picture to sell something of yours, as long as credit is given where credit is due. and if you do plan on putting it in an image to sell something, but don't remember where it came from, or by who, then don't use it. So I'm really interrested in hearing all of your thoughts...and i know you guys got some good ones. Jen

Well...To me it says all of those things, but also... 1. Using this item in an image or project that is sold (or i don't know, used for work or something, for those of you lucky enough to work in the field) is not allowed. 2. This item can only be used for personal interest works. By 'personal interest works' i mean an image you made because you wanted to, inspiration and whatnot.

Yep, I'm with Slakker.. to me non-comm. use means no using it in anything that makes a profit. No matter how much of the image is your creation.. if its a material, say, and I construct an image using it.. it can only be displayed on my website.. not sold for use as anything else. Thats how I understand non-commercial use only...

Oh, yeah, i forgot something. "I guess to me...what it basicly means....is 1. Don't turn around and sell it as yours, even with a new texture. 2. Don't add it to a bunch of other things and sell a "collection" and 3. Don't add something to it and sell it as yours. (example: the vase- don't add flowers and sell it as a decoration)" All of this is flat out copyright violation. I think.

I thought it menat 'You have to buy this item'

Hmm..it means whatever they want it to mean..I've seen everything from 'I don't care', to 'I take this SERIOUSLY and I DO PROSECUTE (no, I'm not making that up..
I think it means that if you use something commercially, you have to get permission, and you may or may not even have to fork over some of the profits..just my guess..

Yoir first 3 reasons would be copyright infringement. Non-commercial in my readmes means: 1.it cannot be used for any 'work for hire', i.e., you can't get paid for using it in an image either by independent contract or by your employer... 2. it cannot be used on or for anything you plan to sell, without prior consent from me. Example; as a texture sold with a model. 3. it cannot be altered in any way and sold as a new texture, this also falls within copyright infringement. 4. it can be used for personal renders for your personal enjoyment on your personal computer. This is for free stuff -only-, if I sell it to someone, then they are licensed to do as many images with it as they want and do whatever with those images. But not sell the texture or model, in it's original or in a derivative form, without prior consent. In other words, it's 'not Royalty Free' and any use other than the limited licensing is copyright infringement.

It means to me that one simply cannot make any money using your freebies in any way shape or form. right?

Yeah basically, if not they're violating the terms of use you have on something. On most of my freebies, I have a slightly different setup. Basically it states that it may be freely used and redistributed provided that all associated files are kept together (a sort of bastardized freeware version of the licence agreement thing on sale items.) If they play by the rules, they'll keep everything with the model in it's own little folder. But as a maker of 3D models, I feel that any exposure couldn't hurt so I actually allow for commercial use with one stipulation. I require that they cite the source of the model. So somebody could put it in an picture or perhaps with something they have, but they need something clearly saying who created it and where it came from. Somebody could make $, but credit must go where credit's due. Never know if somebody might hire somebody to do a scene using your model. Mister big director guy comes in and asks where something's from, and provided the guy using it plays nice - that could be a big break for the artist getting in on something. (Well, one could hope at least. Heheh...)

I guess the thing that tweaked me was finding a site that had downloaded my site freebies and was selling them, even though my readme was still in the zip...brass ones for sure...I had the site pulled by the ISP. Intellectual and artistic properties are so hard to defend on the web, people think because they find it on the web it's 'public domain', too bad there's no way to change that perception...except getting hardassed about it, oh well...could be worst, could be on Kazaa...;

What I gave away, I'm completely okay with people using it in whatever render they want. And that's "commercial or non-commercial" for me. The rest is a copyright violation. BTW, pauljs, how can somebody who created an illustration with your model provide a credit? Like, on a cover of a book? You'll never see additional credits inside a book, unless two people worked on the illustration.

Attached Link: Bayham

We need to have a definition of "commercial" I think anytime anything is bought or sold, then that's commerce. If a non-com freebie is used in a picture that's then sold then that's a violation. Here's a slightly related question. There's a photo in my gallery of a ruin near me (link attached). There's a sign at the ruin saying non-commercial photography only. So I think it's fine to post a picture on a site where I'm not making a profit (like this). But I'm getting that picture published, again, I'm not making any money. But I could win a cash prize, in which case I've made a profit. Still a violation?

If you have a model release for the photo of the ruin, you could probably be safe in having it published (you need to make sure all uses are covered in the release)and entering it in the contest. In the US, if you take a picture of a building (because it belongs to someone) you need a model release to be able to use it commercially or non-commercially. Also don't go by the definition of 'commercial use' here at Rosity because their definition is somewhat skewed as far as I'm concerned. Commerce is very straight forward, it's the exchange of goods or services(whether for cash or anything else), they put an entirely different spin on it.

ok, now i'm startin to hear some personal thoughts on it. which is perfect, just what i wanted! keep em coming while i digest these.. ;) Jen

I guess the thing that tweaked me was finding a site that had downloaded my site freebies and was selling them, even though my readme was still in the zip...brass ones for sure...I had the site pulled by the ISP. They must have some brass balls. LOL! If somebody's dumb enough to resell something where the readme gives the true origin listing a free site, they're really asking for it. It's only a matter of time, right? My intent upon commercial use is to have things available for images. However, if some place selling models wants to risk alienating customers after they've found out they're paying for free things... Heheh... Well, it's their call as far as reputation is concerned.

Ok, after blue screen after blue screen and a nap for my pc, lol, i'm back...(and trying to remember my thoughts from earlier) Thanks everyone for all of these very good points and thoughts. It gave me ALOT to think about. When i wrote the first thread, my thoughts didnt' include all of these possibilities, but were rather small circled. A good example of my original thoughts would run along these lines. Artist A makes a freebie...a lamp, lets say. Merchant B makes a table and wants to sell it. Merchant B wants to put that lamp he got as a freebie in that render to help to sell his product. However, that lamp, as a freebie, was listed as non-commercial only. Merchant B isn't selling the lamp, but is enhancing his view of the table. Does that equal a violation? To some, yes, to others maybe no? Now, if Merchant B includes a link in his readme, or a note on the render, that he got the vase from Artist A at www.ArstistA.com where Artist A also has a store set up, would that change things? Would it be possible, or ethical for Artist A to say, yes, this is non-commercial, with bonuses... or this is commercial use, with exceptions? Is there a fine line? Or is this something left up to the individual artist to determine to what extent? Zhann, I understand well, your points, and I respect those..They are very good ones... Paul, I also like your points as well.. Slakker, Striving, Bryster, Pakled..I agree with that being a blatant copyright violation, which I believe is a good base to cover in the readme as well. Now, lets say another example. Lets say Artist A made a flower vase as a non-commercial freebie. Merchant B thought his flowers would go very well in it, and decides to sell the flowers.. But in his product he adds the vase as a bonus freebie. He's not selling it, if he says it's a bonus freebie. But is he? Wouldn't that be construed as selling it? Now what if that vase was listed as commercial? Same standards, or different? Is this more copyright involved, or commercial vs non-commercial? LOL I have a feeling some of the read-me's may be getting a bit more complicated. I know I am thinking of adding to mine...how? I'm not entirely sure yet, but for some reason "this model as a freebie MAY NOT be used commercially" just doesn't seem to cover a whole lot. deep in thought Jen

My thought would be that an advertisement for a commercial product would fall under commercial use...even if that particular object wasn't the item being sold. For example, an ad for Nike shoes isn't going to show Reebok t-shirts without some sort of arrangements being made with the Reebok company beforehand. Another example is music used to enhance the ad...you aren't selling the music, but you still have to have permission to use it. I don't know if that's the legal stance on that...but that's how I'd perceive it.

As for the second example, most people include a "no redistribution" rule in the readme. Aside from that, I would think that it would be "guilty by association" in terms of commercial use. But I'm not a lawyer and can't argue my way out of a paper bag so I'd probably lose if I made a case out of it. :)

My freebies say that they are non comercial but if an artist want's to use them comercially then to contact me. Also I don't allow redistribution in any shape or form unless it's a link to my site. Catlin

To me it means don't use it in anything that has money involved.

Well I don't know the answer to your question, but, being from the South, I am compelled to complain about the incorrect spelling of a word most sacred to us folks from the South, that word being " Y'all ". Now, I must confess that there are some folks that spell it " Ya'll ", but that too is incorrect, we tend to find that those folks are 'come heres' from the North, the North being a place that we folks from the South seldom have a need to visit, what with there backward ways and all. Now you have used it correctly in a sentence, that is fine and dandy, but please, please, spell it properly. :) Merry Christmas, BabaLouie

Your correct, BabaLouie. I'm from Arkansas and we all spell it "Y'all" too. ;-) Have a Happy Holiday today!

Small world, that is my home state, born there, lived in NLR, now live in Virginia. I have some friends from Maryland, that is a yankee state, I am still trying to convert them to eating grits with eggs, bacon, butter, salt and pepper all added together in a bowl. Not having much luck, though they do know how to spell properly now. :) BabaLouie

Well they haven't lived until they also try a good plate of homemade biscuits and gravy...huh? ;-) Gosh I'm getting hungry talking about all this food..but have to wait until 3pm to eat Christmas Dinner. sigh