I'll be taking a hiatus from the 'sity for a while. I've deleted all my freestuff links, but will be reposting them later. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at pdxjims@attbi.com. ...I miss Lyrra...

Take care, pdx. Hope to "see" you soon.

You'll be missed dear. Keep in touch, K?

Awww, I'm sorry to hear that. Let us know where you might be found, ok? ((hugs))

Aww... Is that becourse of the disappearing GPA post? :o(

We will miss you my friend....hugs and hugs...take care. Sharen

You will be missed that is for sure. Keep in touch ok? Thanks, David

Now that I know the situation I must say that I'm appalled by the whole thing. I will however keep my mouth shut out of respect to pdxjims. Thanks, Dave

pdx hope you get yourself together soon ... your models are too cool to take offline. Come to Rendervisions. We're nicer :) Lyrra the Ex-EvilOverlord

What the heck is going on??? Jim - I'm so sorry to hear this news - you really are one of the nicest and most generous people around here. WHAT have they done????

pdxjims Will miss you, your comments & your stuff. Please let us know where you go. :-)

Jim, I don't know what happened but I can very well imagine. It's getting sadder and sadder around here, darker and darker... I wish you all the best and thank you for your help and advise on more than one occasions. Take care :)

um, is anybody free give the gist of what happened? all i know is that i asked a question on a pdxjims thread and when i went to see the answer today i got an error saying i wasn't the admin. you know, some sort of message would be better than vapor: as it is, i don't even have a clue as to what precisely was deemed verbotten.

In the public interest, I think some explaination would be desirable. In absence of knowing the real facts, we are left to speculate and perhaps leap to the worst case scenario. I surely hope this has nothing to do with phobias, or prejudices, as that would surely disappoint and disturb many people here. So if anybody has a brief explaination I for one would sincerely appreciate it.

Ronsruff, I am not sure I can offer an explanation, per se. But I think I can shed a bit of light on the situation. Hopefully I won't get crucified in the process. LOL. We (the Mods) had been getting a number of messages from members regarding links to adult sites and other TOS related issues. We have been making many attempts with threads, free stuff, and image credits to get ahandle on this problem. Currently the coordinators are working to clean up current and historical posts. Jim's thread had a reference to GPA which if one follows the URL is an age restricted site, which the TOS states is not allowed in a reference. So the thread was deleted and he was send a notice regarding this. I am not going to debate whether this was or was not warranted. We are still debating this among ourselves. But as you might expect Jim was not happy and has made the decison to remove his free items from Renderosity. This is a loss for all of us, but one has to respect his feelings on the matter. Hope that helps. Deb

You are debating amongst yourselves whether the action you took was appropriate? If you can't stand behind your decisions that would seem to imply you know the action taken was likely not the correct one. If you are second guessing your own actions how can you expect members of the community to have faith in you/your actions?

Since there is an ability to delete individual posts why not delete the ONE post in the thread that had the link (Jim's original post did NOT contain a link) and leave the rest of the thread intact.

I know I haven't been a member of this community long, but in the time I have been I have seen some fairly disturbing things. I'm beginning to really think that maybe rendervisions or some other board is the place to be :(

Towal. Generally we discuss any action that involves removing threads, images,. as with most things in life... second opinions are always beter. Dictatorships are generally bad.

Ah so it WAS that thread that was the reason. I thought so. And as Towal said, why not simply remove the post where the link was? I know my own post had a reference as I spelled out the apparently forbidden name of GPA. Initially I had also posted the link to them but on second thoughts I deleted that post again becourse I KNOW how Rosity looks at adult links. So I simply IM'ed the offending link to Anton, who was the one who originally asked for it. I have been here for a few years now and has supported the site, but you people make it increasingly hard to keep me defending this place. I STILL think it's a great place most of the time, but the Big Brother tendencies are growing stronger. And I don't like that :o(

I agree, however that discussion should take place BEFORE the action is taken. If you are still discussing the action after you made the decision then something is quite wrong, IMO.

You did not answer my question on why the offending post which was only one of many posts on that thread could not have been deleted vs deleting the whole thread.

As far as I can tell Jim did nothing that violated the ToS in his original post. At the time I read the thread there were a number of posts on it and only one of those contained a link which you say was a violation of the ToS. Why "punish" Jim and all the people that responded within the terms of the ToS for the violation made by one person?

People delete individual posts all the time so it certainly would be within moderator powers to delete individual posts rather than having a knee jerk reaction and deleting the whole thread.

Well I appreciate the comments Deb, and hope that things work out for all concerned. To me, though it it does appear to be an issue of dual standards. Let's face it, THIS is an adult community which has a nudity/violence tolerance that seems to favor a heterocentric definition of "morality" as dictated by a small but vocal minority. If that is what the administration wants, then it is their right to request it, but please don't try to whitewash the hypocracy or pretend that the prejudice is not there. Just tell the Gay Artists that they are not welcome here and be done with it. But do not insult them by suggesting that a naked Michael is pornography while a naked Vicky is ART.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=193

I had personally messaged pdxjims BEFORE the thread was removed - I asked him to please REPOST his thread - With the graphics of his outstanding textures - and for him to please list clearly that the product was a free item at the beginning of the thread, so that it would not be considered a MP item.

Also, I asked, that he post that the items were available through an age restricted site - and although he could not direct members to his site for downloading the image in his post, that he could state that he would be happy to IM members who were interested on the details of how to obtain his freestuff, with the details of how to download his items.

I further stated that we would welcome links to his freestuff if the links did not lead to an Adult restricted site.

Renderosity TOS states: Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content.

The site in mention does contain content that would apply to the above TOS. Thus the reason for asking Jim to please repost his items.

No one asked pdxjims to remove any of his freestuff! No one said that he could not post the images of his freestuff. No one said that his images were against TOS.

Dee-Marie

The age restricted site in question has been mentioned a number of times in the past, along with other adult Poser sites. No link to the site was given, just the name and initials it is known by. The word "Freestuff" was mentioned in the post, and my other Stud Mike gear was always free. All 6 packs were in freestuff here. The Ichiro and Koshini packs were also freestuff. To the members: Renderosity makes its own rules, and enforces them. It has chosen to start enforcing them more stringently. It's their right as a business, and I don't have any room to comment or complain about it publicly. My retirement from my more active participation at the 'sity is due to this new limitation. My decision. I don't want to get banned. I don't want to start a debate that will get others banned. I also don't want to give a stamp of approval to the new stringent enforcement of the rule. I also don't want this thread locked, since I put it up for purely informational purposes about my very popular freestuff offerings (what, 15 to 20 thousand downloads or so of some very large packs of M2, Ichiro, and Koshini clothing). I've always been VERY careful of respecting the TOS. I agree with it. However, posting only the name of a site that's primary purpose is to serve the Poser community didn't seem like a violation to be. Having my post deleted because I mentioned only a name, not a link, was a bit more than I could take. The site and other adult Poser sites have been mentioned (and linked to) in many threads in the past, and have not been taken down.

Strixowl here. I am the offender who posted the link :-( In my enthusiasm to actually be able to help someone,I totally spaced out the portion of the TOS mentioned above. I received a notice that the post was being pulled and why. Whoops!! I went and reread the TOS. Sent an apology to mods,learned another lesson. I thought only 'MY' post was being pulled. Not the whole thread. As pdxjims says above "The site and other adult Poser sites have been mentioned (and linked to) in many threads in the past, and have not been taken down." Apologies to pdxjims and all of you for my mistake, Strixowl

I had received complaints that the thread was a MP Product, and member wanted to know why the thread was posted in the Poser Forum - I moved the thread to the Product Showcase. I acknowledge the fact that I did not see the sentence that mentioned it was a free item the first time I read the thread.

When I received an IM from pdxjims stating that it was a free item I reread the thread, realizing that, within the thread, it did indeed state that the item was free! Also, while rereading the thread I realized that it was directing members to the Adult Restricted Content page for downloading the item.

It was at that point that I suggested that I would remove the original thread and that the thread be Reposted to the Poser Forum,

All that was asked was that the one sentence that directed members to the Adult Restricted Content Site to download his item be changed.

I am truly sorry if the request was misunderstood!

It was suggested, in a very polite manner that the thread be reposted

• Mentioning that the item was Free not a MP product at the beginning of the thread
• Using the same image that appeared in his thread - and that the image was not against TOS.
• Using the same description of the texture content he was offering.
• Post that the free item was Only available on a site that contained Adult Restricted Content
• Ask members to contact him in IM for information on how to download the product

In the original 1st thread posting - although it did not have the "Complete" link to the Adult Content Site it did "direct" members to upload the image from that specific site.

The Renderosity TOS States: Members/Users will not use this community for Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature.

I am a long time admirer of pdxjims works, and even nominated him for "Poser Gallery Picks of the Week" on more than one occasion!

I am sorry for any misunderstanding, and I truly do wish, [as I had stated to pdxjims from the beginning] that he Repost his thread - just leaving out directing members to the Adult Content Restricted Site to download his item!

The Bottom line:

• All members agree to the TOS when they post to the Renderosity Site
• If the TOS is broken [even unintentionally] - the member will be send a TOS reminder
• TOS is applied across the board in regards to All members - not just a select few! All members are expected to abide by the TOS - that includes Members, Coords, Mods, and Admins

Sincerely,
Dee-Marie

DeeMarie, If my post was taken down, then every other post that links to Rendrtica and any other age restricted site should be taken down. There are hundreds of them. If you hadn't read the post, why did you move it to Product Showcase in the first place? If I had said that the free items were going to be at GPA AND 3DCommune, whould the thread have been deleted? Are we forbidden to mention that Rendrtica and GP* even exist in any thread on the 'sity? No more posts on this subject from me. The intent of this thread was my freestuff. I didn't start the speculation by other members or the statements by the moderators.

I just did a quick search on R'erotica in the formum here and a number of hits came up, including one that specifically asks where and what is it in the title and the second post provides a link directly to it.

For that matter renderosity is here I learned about that particular board and many others when I first started reading the board here (not the thread I mention above, btw).

I'm all for rules, but not when they are arbitrarily applied.

On another note I think that both Deb and DeeMarie have responded professionally on this thread even though I don't particularly agree with the action that was taken in this matter. I must say that I felt that Asher's response to a similar question about the thread in the Community Center was flip and inappropriate for a Moderator to make and leaves me with the feeling, yet again, that it's time to find a new place to read about poser before everyone that is helpful here migrates to some place else :(

Hi Jim, As I mentioned before, I did read your thread Before I moved it to the Product Showcase. However, I do admit to "reading-over" the part about it being a Free-Item. I am human, and I did say that I was sorry for not noticing that in my first read-through :) Also, as I stated before, it was not that you had mentioned the Adult Restricted Site by name, but that you were directing members to the site to download your free item. All I asked was that you please REPOST your thread [To the Poser Forum]- with the same image, the same text - Except: 1. Adding that the item was a free offer not a MP item - at the beginning of your thread. 2. Replacing that members could IM you for the download site information - instead of directing members to the actual site for download. As you had deleted your initial posting to the thread - I removed the thread - In good faith that you would wish to repost the thread to the Poser Forum with the above suggests. I did encourage you to repost your thread - there is really nothing else I can do or say, except I am very sorry for any misunderstandings. Sincerely, Dee-Marie

So, anyone got a server for Dodger to start renderosity-refugees.com on?

Gotta look this over... [1. Adding that the item was a free offer not a MP item - at the beginning of your thread.] In other words, Jim should have had to do your job for you, since you couldn't be bothered to actually read the thread in question despite the fact that it weas specifically pointed out to you. [2. Replacing that members could IM you for the download site information - instead of directing members to the actual site for download.] Stating that something is at "GPA" is NOT directing them to an adult site for download. Anton asked what GPA was (even if some of us suspect this had to be a joke). GPA? Grade Point Average? It's a set of initials. THIS thread has mentioned both GPA and Renderotica. You gonna pull it, too? Because the fact that another site exists was acknowledged? But above and beyond everything else in this whole situation -- what do you think Renderosity is? Are you completely unaware that that impressive number of members that used to be up in the upper left hand corner of the page is composed at least half of people who DO NOT USE POSER and, rather, simply log on to look at the naked Vickys? Of those, a good percentage are probably 12-year olds. Renderosity's galleries are probably at least 50% nudity, probably more cheesecake and other near-nude adult content. Therefore, deemarie, when you referred to the Renderosity TOS, you were referring to Renderosity itself, and since RENDEROSITY IS AN ADULT SITE you, yourself, were violating the Renderosity TOS as is every single bondware-generated page on this site due to the presence of the big Renderosity logo and it's link to the front page, index.ez. Get over yourselves, people.

Jim, I'm really, really sorry to see all your kick ass work go offline, I hope you repost it once people realize what they've lost, because your work is just amazing. I /cannot/ believe this is over a link to GPA that wasn't even yours. Are we even allowed to say what GPA stands for, since it's technically also the address for the site? Dear lord. I can talk about Renderotica all day long, and nothing happens, but mention a site about "TEH GHEY" and all the world goes to hell.

I think this just about sums it up...

is chronically dissapointed... And would likely be banned for stating anything more than that at this point. moooooshes Jim

gives Jim hot gay luvin's to make him feel better. In the form of chocolate chip cookies fresh from the oven! And Ron, exactly. We can have bondage wear and huge breasts in the freestuff section, but let GPA get a link, and boom. WW3.

{Due to the content and issues discussed in our forums, we ask that anyone under the age of 15 receive written permission from a parent before joining our service. For all of the fine print you'll want to read our Terms of Service (TOS) } This is on the registration page. Doesn't that make THIS an age-restricted site due to its content? Renderosity is free to have any TOS they want, but this rule doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And barring the mere mention of a site? I can understand the ban against direct linking to anything other than a sign-up page, but what is the problem with a written reference. Perhaps a (warning: this site contains adult content) would be enough, just so that people aren't surprised. Diane From that other Render site that can't be mentioned here.

If I say it three times fast, will the boogey man get me? Renderotica! Renderotica! Renderotica! falls over giggling Yes, it IS hypocritical. Technically, www.profiles.yahoo.com is an age restricted area, as you have to be over 13 to access it legally. So, oops. There goes my post.

BWahahahaha....the boogey man cometh out of the closet. (don't look over your shoulder).

Dude, the boogey man coming out of the closet was what STARTED this thread!

Deemarie. You are working here. If you get complaints I would expect for you to read the thread in question carefully to make sure that the complainer isn't just out to get the person they're complaining about. He did say the item was available for free. Also, how hard is it to delete just the one post that contained the link?! That would have made more sense.... Perhaps this can be a learning experience. Nevermind what I think about the 'now you see it now you don't' TOS. pdxjims sorry... you do wonderful work, and are very generous.

I must have missed that section of the TOS that talks about a freebie mention requiring the very first sentence of the post to state the item is free.

sorry, couldn't help myself.

We all agree on the following:

1. We all agree that pdxjims does amazing artwork

2. We all agree that we shall miss him if he decides to leave.

3. We all agree that - "We All" at times Mis-read or not read carefully text within long posts - which is very evident even in this thread!

4. We all agree to follow the Renderosity TOS - Everyone agreed to that when signing up to be a Rendeorsity Member!

On the other matters - it will do no good to keep rehashing the same words over and over and over.

Everyone has been able to voice their opinions.

Thanks everyone for your input - we can all agree to either agree or disagree on this issue!

Dee-Marie