I have read the manual tutorials, read yours here, and read several others. I know how to do grouping, and how to place bones. Here are my problems though: After making a complete figure with groups and bones I go into the pose room (Poser 5) and when I try and move a part it "breaks away" from the rest of the object. If it twists or is Moved this happens. I went into the joint editor and it is extremely confusing. I read the help on that but it is still confusing. Can someone please explain how I make the different parts of a creature "stick together" so the parts do not tear apart? Here is the process I use: Bring the 3D object (OBJ) into poser. Go to Set-up room. Assign groups. Name groups according to what part (Head, tail, etc) Create bones in the same areas of the groups with similiar names (head_bone, tail bones, etc) Assign the Bone groups to each body group (Head to head_bone) OR Do not create groups, just make the bones, then autogroup then clean-up. It seems no matter which way I do it, the parts still rip or tear apart from each other. I use the proper hieracrhy when creating the bones. HELP!!

It sounds like one or more parts are not grouped properly and so become unattached like a prop. You can use bones from another figure in the setup room, just load your figure object and then select a figure whose bones you want to use, then load them in and autogroup. Autogrouping doesn`t always correctly set the groups up and you usually need to adjust them by hand.

If the groups arent set up properly then sometimes the edges tear apart when moved.

Well, here is an example. I had a fish obj. I made the head group with covered everything but the jaw Then I made the body, tail 1, tail 2, and fantail. Next I had the topfin group, and bottom fin group. Finally the jaw group. I placed bones that connected and parented to each group. The body bone was the master (like a hip). There was no polys that weren't group. No polys were group shared with other groups. Then I went into the pose part. If I rotated the jaw it would rotate off the object, like it fell off. Same with the head group. the jaw would stay attached but the head and jaw would tear off the body.

It's been a long time since I worked in the setup room, but it sounds as though the joint parameters are off.... the center point of your rotation sounds like it's outside the body of the fish. It needs to be moved. I can't get any clearer without pictures and very long analogies, heh.

It sounds like the groups arent set up properly I had similar problems with a few figures I made recently. The necks tore away from the body when turning the head or neck. I fixed it by looking at posette and the way that groups are made up on her. You could try looking at the angel fish or the dolphin and how the groups are done in that and copy the setup to your fish. I made a poser figure of a killer whale using the dolphins bones and it worked well. You do know that when making your own bones that you have to name the parts properly and exactly e.g. rShldr not Rshldr or right shoulder? It is better to name the bones correctly so the figure can work with poses and bvh motion files etc

If you could post a few screens of the problem areas from some different angles then it might be easier to see the mistakes.

After grouping (or regrouping), use the Grouping Tool's weld function on each body part so that Poser treats the groups as if they were a single unbroken mesh.

by Little_Dragon on 1/23/04 15:09 "After grouping (or regrouping), use the Grouping Tool's weld function on each body part so that Poser treats the groups as if they were a single unbroken mesh." Ahhh!.. I think that might be it. Any good weld setting? I notice the default weld setting is very low. Thanks either way if it works or not :) I pulling out what little hair I do have trying to get my fishy to bend

??? [menu] "Display" ---> "Bend Body Parts" ??? ... checked ? Just a thought. ;=]

I have the hier set up like this CENTER - Head - Jaw - Bottom Fin - Top Fin - Rear Fin - Tail I clicked on each group and selected WELD, I used the default of 0.00086 I made sure all the bones are grouped to the proper groups. This is driving me nuts

How about a screen shot of your HE. ?

Perhaps you need to play with the falloff zones, or the ordering. When I made a non-human figure I had to experiment with the XYZ, YZX, XZY, etc... order until I figured out the right one.

Remember that ... The "Twist" joint parameter must ALWAYS come first, regardless of which axis it is on. ;=]

FINALLY GOT IT! From the Poser manual: When created bones, two children groups can not touch! A child polygons must not touch another childs polygons or ripping or displacement can occur. That was what I was doing wrong Thanks to xantor for telling me first. Sorry it took me so long to get what you were saying. My fishy can now open and close his mouth. BTW, its the Rockfish model I reboned. Any way I can distribute what I did without violating the Rockfish copyright? The default models mouth didn't open and close. One great side effect of this hair pulling is in the process I learned the Joint Editor pretty well and can see the power of it. Thanks to xantor and everyone else that helped =-)

You could ask the original maker of the rockfish if they will let you make a poser version of it. I usually dont make figures from other peoples objects so that if they work well I dont have that problem.

Oh I was just doing it as a learning experience. It was already a poser figure, the fins moved and the tail, but I wanted a closing mouth and moving eyes so I removed all the bones and groups from it so I could learn how to do it myself :) Thanks to your folks help I was able to.

You could still ask if you could release the updated version...