Pardon me - but I'm new to this site -- to be sure -there is a lot of talent here -- but after pouring through image after image I don't think I've seen any constructive or negative criticism -- it seems like one big compliment throwing love-in -- people either: 1. -- say something nice -or- 2. tiptoe around it. -- maybe I should just put on a Happy-Face and "when in Rome" it --- but that ain't me. Douglas

We have all levels of ability here, and hopefully all of us want to keep on learning. Here's (again) my two cents on this topic we've covered many times before. The Gallery, with its wide level of skills both of the photographers and of the reviewers, is not a good place for discussion. Most of us soon do not bother "voting" or posting ratings. The Forum is a better place, but it needs to be "directed" criticism: Not just, "You made it too dark, and BTW your mother is ugly." The often heard, "Please tell me what's wrong with this picture?", is also not very directive. Someone wanting criticism, should ASK for it, and give some background; What were you trying to accomplish? Where do YOU think the image doesn't work? How can I improve here the xyz? And the reviewers here are NOT experts; trying to put their thoughts in order, towards a specific question, helps the reviewer learn as much as the asker. It may seem like we are just patting each other on the back. Often we are. Some folks have been here a long time, and we just enjoy seeing and encouraging their latest projects. Some, we've seen their work often before, so we need not even bother telling (Donald) his monitor is too bright, for example. We just accept it, and enjoy his latest shots.

Douglas - We've been through this a few times and it's something most of us accept. This isn't a photography website. As such, many of the people who comment on the photographs have no background in photography. They're 2D and 3D artists. They simply comment on what it is they like and usually ignore something they don't like. I think we, the photographers, have fallen in line with that in the gallery. For criticism, we come here to the forum. Post an image and say "What do you guys think" and you'll usually get an honest look at it. I actually like that a lot better than gallery based critiquing. In the forum, people can adjust your photo and repost it to the same thread to show you what they are talking about that they might not have been able to adequately explain in just words. It also allows better dialog between the photographer and those giving criticsm. And, by the way, nice to meet you. :) -=>Donald

Woops ... cross posted. Misha - :P We keep telling you to get a real monitor with brightness control. But nooo .. it's always "I like the red case color and I don't care if it says Etch-a-sketch on the side." :P

Pardon me too. I agree with unstrung65. DHolman claims "This isn't a photography website". It could be. If we want it to. I don't think that we should feel like second degree image creators just because we do photography. The value of a photograph is just as valuable as any image, whether it is done in oil, a 3D-program or whatever. It's a handy-craft. Some photographers work in a darkroom with traditional methods, others work digitally. What counts is the RESULT. The IMAGE! I often see images with many comments. But the comments are often VERY positive, but the image could be improved in many ways. I have a few times tried to be constructive in my criticism, but I don't know how this has been taken by the photographer in question. I think it is ideal to grive criticism in connection to the photo, i e in the gallery. /Jan

Hmmmmm....to be fair to all....and all are not Photographers...some are Young, some are Old, some are Sensitive, some are Shy,some are Skeerd to Critique. As for Myself....doing this for 1 Year....if I had gotten the "honest? critique" and it said that everything needed to improve....I probably would not have continued....become dejected, but for the Back Slapping from those that said..."Well Done! Good Shot! Hugz!" "Wanna be My Buddy?" So....as a Raw Novice....I like it like this...with encouragement.. and the atmosphere of a "Big Love In"...and....if You need to be helped....bring it to the Forum ....why, I even bring My Personal Problems here...sigh But....above all Douglas, be Yourself....but, with Respect.....many of Us are just being Ourselves....I am a Chef by Trade....I could honestly Critique a bad Burger....but, I am not Pro enough in Photography, to say much more than ..."I like what and who I see"....many are like Me....it is Our Nature.

The purpose is to LEARN from each other. You tell me and I tell you! We will all get better. /Jan

This has come up a few times over the past couple of years that I've been popping into this forum. The general rule of thumb seems to be that if you want criticism, ask for it. I've asked in the past and gotten some really good feedback that helped to improve a couple of my photos.

My own personal rule of thumb, going along with that, is to remember to ask for criticism for each image that I want it for. My guess is that members won't remember my blanket statement in regards to wanting criticism of any and all of my work, so I try to remember to ask for it with each shot. While I could see that becoming cumbersome for people who post a lot, it works well for me since I only post a few times a year.

-Taltos

Hello and welcome! It was the encouragement of my co workers that persuaded me that my work was good enough to sell and show. I have been here now for about three months, I accidently found this site through an internet friend that I have had for about two and half years (Snakey). He came here as a Bryce artist and over time I have encouraged him to participate in the photography end of the site. Snakey has been viewing my work via MSN or Yahoo messenger for the past two years or so, and he always encouraged me to go forward with my part time hobby. If it hadn't been for my co workers and Snakey's encouraging words, I may have never had the courage to post my work on an internet site such as this. When I go through the gallery, basically I have my favorite artists that I check out first. I then go through the gallery and click on what catches my eye. If I give a person a critique telling them what I think they could have done, it is usually via the IM system here in Renderosity, unless they ask for it in the posting. If they do not ask for a critique I comment on what is right with the photograph rather then what I see that may be wrong. Goes back to the saying I always heard that if you can not say something nice, then don't say anything... I try not to give an unwanted critique. (If it really bugs me, I will send an IM). I have noticed when a person picks out a tiny flaw in a photo, it becomes a feeding frenzy, the people that comment after, now see this flaw, no matter how big or small it is (and maybe it is something that just bugs a particular person and really isn't a flaw at all!?). That in turn affects the ratings, which probably won't make the artist feel too good. I like to encourage rather than discourage. So when you make your posts, if you want an honest opinion, by god ask for it, most of us would be more then willing to give you that. I do hope that you enjoy your stay here! :) Brenda aka: Nilla

Cereus - I respect your opinion, but I disagree. This is a mixed media website - specifically it was built upon 3D graphics. In my opinion, it will never be, nor should it be, a "Photography" website. As such, you are going to get a wide spectrum of viewers in the gallery with a huge difference in background. Most will not be photographers and most will not know how to or even want to critique a photograph. They will comment on the things they like and simply not comment on the things they don't like or are indifferent to. I guess I don't see the advantage of critiquing in the gallery over posting the image to the forum and asking for a critique (which, by the way, I believe is not unique to this forum - but that most of the forums on Renderosity have come to work this way - ie. gallery comments are probably pretty positive across the board with critiques in the forums). I guess my questin is, why should I subject a weekend shooter who posts a picture of their cat to a couple paragraphs on Gestalt theory and dynamic composition when all they wanted was to simply show Fluffy and couldn't care less about DOF, fill light or cropping? As for it possibly becoming cumbersome. Lets be honest here, someone wants the rest of us to go through the work of critiquing thier photo and they can't be bothered with the time to post a message and ask for it ... well, that'd be pretty weak on their part. -=>Donald

Thank you for your views. We can make this site whatever we want it to be, if we are willing to step up and take the initiative. A practical problem with un-solicitated critiques; The critic has no way of knowing if the photographer is just a struggling student first learning how to use a point-and-shoot, or a professional who has devoted their life to photography. We can offer opinions, but it really takes brass balls to offer opinions without being asked, and usually without being asked specific questions. And the photographer receiving the critique has no way of knowing, or respecting, the level of wisdom being passed along. It could come from a world-class expert, or just from some Bozo able to read the manual. It is much better to get to know each other first, and encourage our individual development. Then, we can start writing meaningful critiques of a photographer's work within some context.

i don't think there's anything i can add here after being down this road before... but i will anyway, if only to repeat... some very good points made sometimes it can be really difficult to point out the obvious... when everyone else is oooohing & ahhhing... especially if they haven't asked for it & you still want to encourage them ...usually point out something you do like about it & then you might bring up whatever it is that's bugging you with a possible "imho", or a "well, that's just me"... & not make it too lengthy... smileys help too :] (at least for me) oh & welcome to the love-in Douglas :]

Hmm...I've got a few minutes spare before I dive back into bed (it's cold here today) but thought perhaps I should give another view on the whole thing. I don't know if I have given a negative criticism so far. And that's because I truly believe that everything has worth. I'm not a professional...but I am learning every day. And I learn best by concentrating on the things I do best. I would rather post a comment on a photo praising it's use of light or colour, rather than pointing out a negative. In this way, the person will be confident in this use of light/colour and be more likely to enhance the parts of their work that might be otherwise lacking. And I think, perhaps, that it is confidence that is most important for those that might be most in line for criticism...i don't know...slightly abstract thought that one... Hmmm...cold's getting to brain, no doubt. So...back to warmth for a little while longer.

Hi and Welcome Douglas, Being a flower and pussycat poster, I have to say I was very much encouraged by the 'pats on the back' given in the gallery. Which gave me the nerve to post photographs I had enjoyed taking. OK maybe most didn't rate my efforts but the few who did gave me more than they could have known. I even entered the challanges as a result of the pats on the back. I like to think I learnt from the simple act of having a go, which I most certainly would not have done otherwise. I admire a lot of the work posted both here and in the gallery, but by no means do I 'know' enough to say how 'good or bad' it is, neither do I like it all. Just my two cents worth. Pat

Hello -- thanks for all your comments -- I just replied here ( I thought ) -- but long messages seem to disconnect by the time one tries to send it. ( so I'll try again ! )----- In general - I think artists (photographers) will be helped by honest "feedback" -- a few sensitive souls may crack and throw their cameras in the river. ( but I don't think so.) -- The creative path ( like the hard knocks of life) comes complete with many bumps along the way and it's attendant anxieties --- a little more bite in the feedback might give the comments section more weight. I'm sure it could be delivered in an empathetic and supportive way -- toes might get stepped on but , again, -that's life. ----- ( - I'm really setting myself up for when I finally post something here!!! ) ---- my computer is still packed after a move. -- Anyway -- I quite like this site and the people that populate it -- I'm just throwing in my two cents.

Again, thanks for welcoming me here! -- I wish I had the time to address each one of your thoughtful comments. I would think many photographers who post images here would someday like to sell their work ( if they haven't already ) --- Often friends and relatives will just love whatever one produces ( so the assessment is skewed ) -- bringing it to a site like this could be like bringing it out into the wider world to get a better idea which way the wind is blowing -- but if it is just an extension of one's cheerleading family -- then what is learned?? -- for me , personally , I would just like unvarnished,honest feedback --- that IS something of value ( doesn't mean I would always agree with it -- there's a certain amount of - considering the source - that plays into it. ) --------- though this is not primarily a photography site - it still can grow and get deeper. -----

sigh [Thank you VERY much, Pat, for pointing out that some of us like kitties and flowers, and this is a place to learn how to make better photos of them!] One of the points being missed is that all of the comments in the Gallery or in the Forum come from Members. We have no staff of Photography Experts who sit around and write criticism. If someone asks, "I would like unvarnished, honest feedback, " they will get it. If someone asks, " Something about the lighting here bothers me?" they will likely get more helpful detailed answers. Or maybe not. The answers come from those willing to contribute. We have tried more structured critiques in the past. There is even a tutorial in the Resource Area with suggestions how to do this. If the Members want more of anything here, they have to step up and provide it. We must, though, be aware of the different skill levels, and how sometimes an innocent comment can really be blown out of proportion.

Bravo Misha....now ...Unstrung65....lets see Your Pussycats and Flowers! Muuuuuuuuuuah!

the most effective criticsm is the selfcriticsm.you learn it best by viewing the works of the other artists. !!!!!!!!! :O) !!!!!!

.....I think people on this site could ferret out a beginning photographer and temper any constructive remarks by pointing out what's also good about the image. I wouldn't envision any young innocent -deer caught in the headlights -new photographers being eaten alive by critical sharks here. Anyway - It's not so much about criticism only coming from only highly qualified photographers - but just about anyone's reaction to an image - doesn't have to be about technical aspects ( learn the rules to break them often applies ) --- and I am not just talking about the photography section -- rose throwing seems to be rampant across the site --- I came here to this site as an initial outsider without any expectations or axes to grind - and I'm just feeding back to you how things struck me --- and that things just seem out of balance in the comments area -- where average photos and images are too often lionized --- one should have to really EARN an excellent rating. Maybe I'm swimming against the tide on this one ! Hmmmm --- i'm looking mentally thru my collection for pussycats and flowers...........I'll get back to you.

......another aspect people (tedz)present is that they are reluctant to say much because they are not experts in photography - so what? - you would just be formulating and writing down your own honest reaction - steer away from technicalities and write from the heart. Be brave -- it's a learning experience and will help you with your own photography. ---- Also --- I certainly agree that the back room ( forum )is a better more thorough place to flesh things out -- but nothing wrong with starting things on the front burner comments section. ----- ok -- time for tea.

hmmmmm. how can I add to the great points already stated? I can't really. However let me put it this way. I have been a member of the photography forum since March of 2003. I have posted a few images in the gallery, just for the heck of it. The "rankings" don't mean that much to me, although I do appreciate people looking at my stuff and commenting whether good or bad. the biggest reason that I am still on this site is to learn. Now how does one learn? For me, a lot of the times by making mistakes and having someone help you learn by them. Now I'm smart enough to know that MOST of the folks on here mean well when they rip an image to shreds critique wise. Also, they will heap praise on an image if they think it worthy of such. realizing this at the outset, I've thouroughly enjoyed every visit I've made to this website as you Douglas will in time. That is because whether candy coated or just plain raw, a lot of the critiques that I have asked for, have helped me learn a little bit more about shooting a decent picture. So kick your shoes off, relax and welcome to the chaos that is the photography forum!
Jack

God, now this is a heavy subject. critism to comments. Well, I am a non pro.... a very humble, digi cam photographer who has some little knowledge about 2d/3d photo softwares since I been working in about 15 diffrent wares for the last 5 years other than that I have no experience whatsoever before coming on here with my photo work. I have learnt a lot here, not with critism but with honest sincere advise by friends. Most of these critism or advise or tips came to me via IM messages. Not only in photography but even when I was posting in the Bryce Gallary,the same used to happen. If someone, expert enough saw some serious flaw in my work or saw some very simple trick to come over my lapses they would send me an IM regarding it and that had helped me a lot. For example, the idea of using the Spray for flowers was sent to me by a friend via IM and since then I have posted many flowers using the Spray and I have noticed that it has given lot of light advantage plus a cool effect to the image so posted. Likewise, very recently another guru in this trade, I almost spelled his nick now... sent me a im telling me how he would have handled the camera in a certain pic shoot and true enough when I considered it, he was right and that is an added information in my head now and whenever I go and shoot flowers his tip will be in my mind and I hope to come out with some nice angles to the flowers I post. As regards critism to the post itself......it's very hard, there are many reasons to it...... when I was new entrant here and I started with bryce I had left a crtism to someones work, only to get a IM from another friend saying , comeon, can you stop your critism? can't you see the person posting is hardly 10 yrs of age and for her age she is doing such a wonderful job and i was like, OH MY GOD!!, why the hell did I not check the background of the nickname that posted?? Why was I so stupid with my loud mouth going on about how the image should have been rendered. I felt highly embarassed and that was the last critic I ever made and I send a due apology to both the persons involved. The reason why I am quoating this is, someone above said it right, this site sets no prior qualification for entry here. Everyone with their free will can participate in posting under any category, they can be pro at various levels which we know not as there is no proper identification of them, Age too is a major consideration, so keeping in view all these factors, Constructive critism of all image is not possible or desireable. However, comments can continue to remain polite and the rating can be more honest. Not all images need to be treated as Excellent, some are good, some are fair and some very interesting.:O)) I wish I could go back and check which Image had this but one of my Bryce work got the first comment as a suggestion and the rest of the comments that followed were debates on that opening remark, some agreed with it, some disagreed and some had a diffrent way to it. My work , per se..... was not looked as a work of art, it was more a debate over the first remark, so , I agree with Nilla over this, once someone sets a little negative tone , most start singing or huming the same tune and the whole idea of the post gets lost. Using the Forum for critism is a good idea, I think I like that. I am a member in a MSN site which is tightassed about the size of the image posted. Anything you post will get critisised to such degree that you may not want to pick your cam again. God, I for one don't want that. Pardon me , but I don't intend to be a photographer, or a pro photographer, no , I will not be covering any marriage event or political campaign or street demonstration, thats not me and my reflex is not so strong nor is this Digi cam smart enough to react quickly when desired. I am just a humble artist who is currently using a Phototool named Digital Camera to work on his 2d skills. Capturing from live what I loved working on a Canvas beyond that I have no distinction as a photographer. I prefer to be a Photo artist than a Photographer and I do not want to be critisised from a Photographers point of view......... does this sound blunt??

....I think we all want to share our photos and artwork with others - and we all want to grow creatively ( whether this leads to a profession or not ) --- and it seems, I'm learning , that there are a lot of avenues and ways on this site to communicate ( IM -- forum -- e-mail -- comments ) -- so I would guess -if one desires honest feedback he (she) will find a way. --- no one,though, no matter how inexperienced or young, will be mortally wounded by a thoughtful comment that points out a perceived flaw. Artists( photographers ) are usually more sensitive than most ( comes with the territory ) -- but if they continue to create they will have to learn to deal with criticism 'cause there's no way to escape it in life and art. Again I don't want to overstress the negative aspects of the term feedback -- but the lack of any such comments leaves things imbalanced and seems to reduce the comments section to a mere back slapping club. --- anyway - you get my drift -- I'm adaptable and happy to be here. Douglas

I had left a nice long comment and then my computer crashed.... :~( Let me first welcome you to the our Forum and Gallery... it's always a pleasure to see a new face here. I'm not going to be able to rewrite it verbatim but will do my best to get my points across as I remember them. I agree with the sentiments that a thoughtful critique can be a good thing. It can be a learning experience for the one critiqueing as well as the one being critiqued although it must be done with a gentle hand. I've been here for about 4 years, 3 of them as a registered member..... There is no written rule that says that critiquing is only allowed in the forum, I certainly don't limit myself in that aspect. But that is just the way it always has been, across all the galleries... shrug That being said there are people here who will leave a thoughtful note for improvement. I've tried my part to do this, albeit on an irregular basis, sometimes it's met positively, sometimes with anger, and sometimes with indifference. Time however, is a constant restraint on being able to do this.... up to 5 pages of new images a day...! Often all I have time for is an "I saw it, and here is what I liked about it"... As you can see from other posts there are those who care not for it. They are here to share and have fun. You may also notice that this site and the Photo Gallery are far more artsy than the usual Photographically dedicated site. Fanciful postwork here is almost the norm rather than the exception. It is probably not fair to the artist to critique artisitic choices as everyone idea of art is different.... Photography for me is very important, it is basically my life at the moment, so I do appreciate the well thought out critique on my work (I also consider the source).... When I have been given suggestions for improvement I will often bring it here to the forum and open a debate on... I think that this fosters learning, and I love boucing suggestions around. But this is just me.... I'm serious about the craft, not everyone is as obsessed with it as I am. Now I do look forward to seeing your work when you have the chance to get some of it uploaded.... And again Welcome!

I think all the comments above are very nice and I liked them all, well done to everyone involved....... Only kidding. One point I'd like to make as a relative newcomer to Renderosity, is that there must be many people here, like me, who use this site for entertainment value. In the last few months I've spent many hours looking through galleries, opening up thumbnails that I think might be of interest to me. Its only human nature to focus in (Pardon) on subject matter that somehow appeals to them, so it is only natural that they recieve more positive comments than critisism. I do however take your point that the lack of critisism might not lend itself to improvement. I,ve had a few comments like that and do welcome them as a humble beginner. Half the time subject matter is just as important as technical ability, and not all members own the best equipment on the market. At present I am limited to my wee 35mm camera and scanner, but hopefully will go digital when my wallet (and wife) allows. Then I will be actively seeking advice and I am sure members here will be only too willing to help, and for that I will be greatful, perhaps you (Douglas) will be able to help guide me on the digital path too? The strength of Renderosity is in its members, welcome aboard. As far as being afraid to hurt anothers feelings, one thing I bear in mind is that with each posting you have the option not to recieve comments and rankings so if an individual is so sensitive to the degree where they will be upset by fair critisism, then they can choose not to hear it. Again I feel all the comments above were just great and enjoyed reading them, thankyou so much for sharing!!!

Attached Link: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?topic_id=1481&msg_id=003zLK&photo_id=1104566&photo_sel_index=0

Woo hooo ... long messages ... long messages. :) *dances around* Hmmm ... focus ... focus. Ya know, I was on this site long before it was Renderosity ... before it catered to other 3D software ... back when the original site was up in its first incarnation as a Poser only site (oh god, the nightmares of the transitions and war of words still haunt me). I've seen the galleries when there were well meaning critiques given. Not pretty and I don't want to see it again. No matter how well meaning or constructive a critique is, if the recipient isn't receptive to it, the responses can be explosive. Yes, it gets kind of crazy with the "love-in" type responses in the gallery; but the flip side is you don't see "F--- you!! Who the hell do you think you are?!!" in the gallery either. One of the main reasons I like posting the image to the forum and critiquing is that it allows dialogue between the photographer and critiquers. It's one of the reasons I no longer post on the other photo critique websites like Photo.Net and UseFilm. People leave a comment or critique and never come back to continue the discussion. Here, with each comment, the thread comes back into view. An example of this is one shot I put up on Photo.net a while ago. Click on the link above to see it. There is a comment near the bottom from Toshio Tamaki. I thought it was a very interesting comment and wanted a clarification of what he meant by it. Of course, he probably never looked at my photo again. This happened time and time again and, even though some sites allowed me to IM, I eventually drifted off them and pretty much exclusively here (although sometimes I post an image on the Canon 10D or Lighting forums of DPREVIEW). Just fits me better. :) Anyway, hey 'chelle. I like this fellow. Articulate ... makes his point without belittling others ... didn't freak out when Tedzo walked in the room. I say we all scooch over a bit and make room on the comfy couch. Of course, he hasn't failed the psychological test yet so it's not official.

Attached Link: http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=423944

Ha! Donald....at least you *got* some comments! Hhrumppff! Yes, I've pretty much given up on all those other photographic websites....(I think I've tried them all) I feel like the invisible lady there at photo.net ... :~/ This is home, I can walk around in my jammies and let my hair down..... Link is to my photo.net account....

quote Dorothy.....there's no place like home, there's no place like home, darn gotta go my lasagna is burning..... Jack

I wonder if anyone could Critique My Application of Make Up? oooooh please be kind, I assume You will be a Top Model to advise Me....*sigh*...*hugz* and *smoochies*...Hi Donald!

darling Tedz... you're beautiful!! how could i possibly improve on perfection, MUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! :D ...lookie,lookie! o.O Donald is dancing!!

sigh...I am pleased I got Critique from a Model....like Me...giggle giggle...I bet Donald wants to Pose for Me now....smoochies G/f xxx

I'll put my 2 cents in later... Jinx

third attempt at this..lol hi douglas and welcome :) the points i would have made has been covered. i usually post here in the forum for crit/advice and post in the final image in the gallery. i think there are cliques at all websites like this, not much you can do about that but it should not stop us from posting our comments either through the comments section or through IM. if the photographer is true to themselves they will review the comments and take from it what they want. nice way to get introduce to the forum :)))

OK, now Let us come to an agreement on this or maybe this would start another discussion itself. What do we post on the photo gallary?? Is it finished work for display /show-off or work for review/critic/improvement?? Most of the time when I am posting in the Gallary I am posting it as a work of art, finished, complete to the best of my ability and not necessarily all work has been weighed for it's quality and finish. I am not saying that my work need not be critised for its lapses, please be open and come forward and educate me, I am open for it but I prefer that the same is done via IM or mail so that I can understand my limitation and the improvement suggested. I would like to thank many out here who have really really helped me in this regard.:O)) SNAKEY

----------Hey! -- I should make it clear -that I'm not exactly itching to dispense wordy critiques on everyone's work here! --- just noticed, in comparison to Digitalart.org - ( only other site I ever posted on )--- that all comments seem positive only --- I was just reflecting that back to you. The upshot is just that I thought it was leaning too far in one direction and perhaps should swing a little more back in balance -- wouldn't want things to get nasty by going too far! ----- my deal is simply to feel free to say what one feels about any image --- but I have learned a lot from your replies - and have a better sense of how things are done here ---- feels like a nice little community of artists here -- the forum is great - we just need some red checkered table cloths and perhaps some tea - coffee and wine......maybe beer...........and,-uh- treats --- not sure about the candles. -------- and it's also nice to know you have a lunatic fringe here ---- step forward ( you know who you are )

first to step foward... me me... this fringe will look good on Tedz's silk & maybe a bit for Donald since he's over there dancing... oh we gotta have the candles, you know the ones that drip in multicolors? :] looks like i got 8 cents here so far we can use as a tip eh-hem... waiter! over here...

I refuse to step forward! Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuah!

Nicely said Mark -- ( and Cindy - I'll get to you later ) -- art is subjective - credentials might add a certain weight to an opinion but everyone should have their say - - it just boils down to how an image hits you and perhaps ones ability to express why they feel that way - an innocent could sometimes nail it without any photographic history. I ,still think feedback is a very valueable tool ---but can be a double edged sword -- so what! -- we can take it!.............can't we???

....well Ms. Cynlee I'm glad you stepped forward ,of your own accord, before I had to single you out -- ( unlike SOME others here ) -- you are crazy,alright ( ..like a fox!.....make that foxette....is that a word? ....) Now I think we should add Hungarian food to the menu....why? - you ask ? ---- because here in Toronto the Freezing we used to have such a place where writers -beatnicks - bohemians -artists ( the usual riff-raff)used to meet -- and somehow Hungarian food fit right in.....but I digresss......waiter!...check please....give it to that tedz character over there in the corner.

Well...I am pleased that You did not single out Cynlee...now it seems You have settled into the Fun side...perhaps it is time to Display Your Photographs?

......well - I'd love to Tedz -- but, unfortunately I'm seperated from my computer ( it's packed ) and am currently looking for an apartment to house it and me! -- just moved to Toronto from Virginia on a shoestring budget ( long story ) -- however -- I do have some work posted on Digitalart.org -- under the same unstrung65 --- find members - search members. Doug

it just occured to me where i've seen your name before, through your fave images! now i remember... & you've got some real nice work over there at digitalart & a friend of malanda's!... (he's ok Tedz ;) looking foward to when you can upload here

Okay, I think I'll post my two cents now... I post comments on a lot of Art, because I love to look at it and I don't post any suggestions because some people like SNAKEY post because it's a work of art and they are proud of it. Everyone posted excellent explanations! And I agree with what a lot of people said. Jinx