We finally download D|S and conceded that our expectations were only exceeded for the lack of a better thing. In other words, having an alternate P5 could only have been a good thing.

Id say were 2-3 years away. In the meanwhile, Vue is a great alternative.

Im sadden that D|S sports its own file system and file format while being compatible with Poser 4 format. This means products designed specifically for D|S will NOT work with Poser. I suppose Daz at some point in time will sell products in D|S format and possibly only in that format in later stages. In fact, the free content provided was shipped in D|S format. Great just what we need another file format (P4 PC, Mac, P5 PC, Mac and D|S PC/Mac)

For this new format to survive (compete against 5 generations f Poser), D|S has to be given away freely (PFMS) because its not support by the Poser community.
We, however, will not be supporting the D|S files system. This means our applications may work with D|S files but dont count on it..
Good day.

EB

Having an own file format is true for many 3d apps. If DAZ want to use the features 3Delight offers (NURBS,SDS) they cannot use the poser format, since it offers no support for mathematically defined objects. DAZ probably wants to support it's own file format too, they surely will have different prices for Poser and D|S-Products. Since D|S is not really a modeler and supports a rendering engine with more than enough options, I do not see why pushing a closed file format is a real problem - Bryce is a One-Way-Ticket too, Vue used to be one for a long long time.

While many apps have different format, no other has embraced Poser like D|S. Perhaps I was looking for a hero to rescue me from the shortfalls of P5. Different is not an issue but compatability is. Today you can buy Poser content that run on Poser flawlessly. Tomorrow, that could all change.

Don't forget that development of P5 could not be done for several years as the licensing issues for various aspects had to be sorted out -- doing so would have cost CL (composed at that time of the folks who created poser) the ability to offer it. Furthermore, they also had to raise capital funds to finance theri efforts -- for two and a half of those years, the main folks all held other jobs and CL was a part time company. Sleeping on it and choosing to ignore it were not what occurred -- those elements cost money to adopt or develop, and there just weren't a whole lot of it around. They gotta make money -- Shade does (not lots, but more), and I'm willing to bet the union of them around what I expect to be P7 will be rather startling. That they finally got to a point where they could release P5 at all is something of a miracle. I do agree, as well, that DAZ will sell items for Poser for a very long time -- the poser community is notorious for ahving a few folks who love to try new stuff, while the vast majority HATE with utter passion the idea of learning to use new stuff. Also, definitely the D|S format will support features that will be absent in P5 (and likely P6) -- it will be taking a differnet tack on the whole thing. I'm waiting on the Beta stage to see how useful D|S will be as an additon to my toolset.

Actually, all of those details I noted were made public -- what, you think I work for them? lol I just pay attention. As for it being a matter of record, I should note that you said "core changes". Core changes, by their nature, tend to limit backward compatibility (such as the core change in windows from 9x to nt -- everything in Xp was asked for by folks during a wishlist request for 98). If, by some strange miracle, CL had made all those wishlist items come true, I think the markets that they do depend on would have been even more brutal in their assessment of it, and that would have, given the way some folks react, crushed revenue from new sales (which are also used to gauge to wisdom of investing in the company, further crushing sales), which would have further placed Poser down the hill. No, incremental change, for this situation, works better. It gives them time to build, the community time to continue growing, and while many folks aren't happy, many are. What's really funny, though -- and I'm not digging, please don't take it that way -- is that the application best described by the P5 wishlist is MAX or Lightwave. The same tools used to model most of the content for Poser, but having a much steeper learning curve and a less friendly interface. Even in it's anticpated form, D|S is not going to offer many of the features that were requested on that wishlist. It is, however, going to do something that is needed, and desperately: provide more than one option. With luck, DAZ will be able to retain use of the 3Delight renderer once the program goes on sale, and if they can implement some of the requested features already piling up as plug-ins, then there will be some mighty fine capability to it. People keep seeming to expect it for free -- but no where has DAZ ever said it will be. The BETA, yes -- they want a million downloads of it. The final -- nope. In fact, they've stated the cost is undetermined, so it might be, and then again, it might not be. It's a good program. It will definitely put CL on their toes, and that's something even tehy have to admit is a good thing, though grudgingly so. Puts a fire under the belly. It was even well timed -- by the time P6 reaches market, they will have established a good solid program, with a loyal user base (likely yourself included). The two programs will then duke it out for market share (and the flame wars over whish is better will be truly spectacular) for a bit, until the real test finally comes: D|S 2 versus P7. And all of this is likely to hit within the next three years or so. Oh yeah, this is a good time for all of us who love using Poser. 5 may not be perfect, but it is better than 4 (just it has that learning curve thing to it, which really irks people), and D|S -- even in a late alpha -- is showing the salt of its worth. Heckfire -- take them both while ya can. Can't have too many hammers...

Yes, D|S has to given away to build its base quickly because it can't compete against Poser otherwise. In other words, the Poser community would not just drop Poser to buy D|S overnight. I still know people sticking with P3! D|S specific content would and can only increase the use of D|S. I would think they also need a faster render option. It took about 2 minutes to render the dog in the woods scene. I think 64bit extension would help. If I'm not mistaken, a 1GHz Itanium (64bit) is faster that a 2GHz Xeon (32bit). But above all else... quality counts. CL hasn't learned their lesson yet, that apps don't make as much money as content do. In otherwords, you'll spend more money on content than you do on Poser. But looking beyond all this, I hope someone comes up with a consumer friendly version MovieStudio where you can do things like Matrix Reloaded, Nemo and Shrek 2. ...there would be nothing else like it, period!

The format change is simply an evolution of ability to produce more aesthetically pleasing and functional joints, smaller footprints, and systems that are being tailored in specifics to replace the chaos of workarounds currently at work. Usuage may seem similar, but whats going on behind the pretty interface and your mouse button is very different. This isn't something that many people seem to understand, and its not worth arguing over until you see the results; which an imported file will never truely show, becuase it hasn't been crafted to take full advantage.

Ever so true, good sir. :)