Hey friends, I just hope you all remember me. I was into Bryce Gallary, till october 2003 if I remember right and had to quit it because my ailing back could not meet the demand for long hours of sitting before the PC. But an artist would die without his art, so I moved on to a easier subject, for me atleast, that gave me more time to move around and not stay stuck to my PC as I used to, I am into photography now and you can look at some of my work in the photography gallary. I had 2 disc prolapses which needed surgical correction so I hope you understand the reason why I had to lay off Bryce. The reason for this thread........... On september 11th 2003 I made a very simple render as a mark of respect or whatever you call it to the tragedy which we know as the Twin tower tragedy in new york where thousands died in an act of violence. My objective was very peaceful, a message, a reminder of evils of war and hatred, a post which was in favour of humanity above all. This partcular post got a evil response by someone, not only making fun of the render I had done but also undermining my intentions. I was upset. Upset , not because I could not please this person but because someone found hate where there was a message for peace. here lies the thread to my post and you can read this persons remark and my retort to it..... http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=491320&Start=163&Artist=SNAKEY&ByArtist=Yes I could have reported this post as offensive and attacking and got it removed or something to that effect but I did not, I thought it was best if I handle my issues myself without bothering the moderators and others who have so much to look after even otherwise. Anyway, not all are alike. Not everyone can laugh such things off and settle their own issues. I have an artist friend here at Renderosity who posts in Bryce gallary.....I call her dove.... as she is a messanger of peace and love. This charming woman is a great artist as well as a great person in real life. She is not a proffessional brycian but an artist she is and her work is loved by a lot of bryce fans and her works gets apprecited a lot and many vote her work too. They have their reasons for doing so. I vote for anything that can reach upto my heart and pluck a string or ring a bell, so do many others, i mean, we all are not proffessionaly educated and trained brycians, maybe some are, not all and those who have been given the powers to vote at renderosity need no qualification, they just need to be admirers. Anyway, this ladys work has been getting rude remarks, as I would put it, not just in her comments box but also in her Instant messages by an artist who thinks she is above par and should be in the top 20 and not my friend. Now guys, tell me,can anyone demand to be on top 20?? Is it not a viewers choice as to where u are or whre u stay?? I personally feel that stooping to such levels in comments in gallary is unfair and looks very childish and foolish infact. It would be better if we could control our emotions in the comment box. The reson why I have come up with this issue out here is because due to these hate comments, my friend has choosen not to post at all at Renderosity which I think is a matter very serious. I have assured her that she should not yeild to such petty comments and continue with her work, I just hope she listens to me. At the same time, I would request the moderators and others to take note of the issue as I am sure it is alrady in their notice and do some justice. Peace to all!! :O)) SNAKEY

Well, the person who left that comment knows that what he considers brutal honesty can often come across as extreme rudeness. Even he will admit(and has admitted) that he can be a complete "arse." Reading in, out and between the lines, I think his criticism had more to do with his wanting to see you post artwork in which the image rather than the sentiment (the poem) constituted the majority of the work. As for the Hot 20, that has been debated endlessly here. So much so that many of us are sick to death of the whole thing. Rather than leave because of abusive IMs, your friend should report the offender and have that person's fanny kicked out of here.

I agree with Ricky here, that the abuser to our dear female friend should be reported. I also noticed that the said abuser took down her gallery save the one that finally got into the Hot20...which was her childish parting words in an image. :-) I have always thought that the Hot20 should never be, but kept quiet about my feelings on this ever since I have been a member here. However, my feelings will be vocal now. I strongly feel the Hot20 should be abolished. The REAL popularity of a creation should remain with the comments that are posted for it.

Thanks for your response ricky...... No, I doubt if this persons intention was to see more brycian art and less poetry. no, he harbours an anti american sentiments and somehow feels like what happened on that day was well deserved or something to that effect. read this...... "On a political note, the word "terror" means "deep, intense fear". Thus, "fearists"? If you are afraid of humans, then you deserve whatever comes your way. A bit of brutal honesty in the face of American idiocy. The only true innocents are those who are powerless. " There was an underlying assumption in his post to the effect that I was an american expressing some kind of patriotic sentiment, which was not the case but what I considered rude in his post is........ "you want to write poetry and stuff, cool, but this is an art gallery, not a "Two Cubes and a Preset Sky" gallery." Two cubes and a present sky gallery, hahahah, now that sure sounds funny too cause afterall a bryce is a software with sky presets, cubes and squares and spheres and other 3d shapes that you could design in wings 3d or 3d max or maya. It is a hate within that describes a render like that. I would agree with you, it was not a hifi, heavily composed render of brycian merit. It does look like just 2 cubes but then two tall buildings which were cubical had to look that way had it been cylinderical i woulda taken a cylinderical object. Moreover, there was no political debate or string attached to what i had posted, it was just a human tragedy projected as such and an appeal for peace and a no to violence, a very deep thought coming from a deeply concerned humanist. Anyway, I stil respect his right to say what he likes. A few days back, in the photos forum there was thread about lack of critism to gallary posts. A new member was of the opinion that people were not being honest but were rather more polite in the gallarys. he was of the opinion that there should be higher level of critics than just cute remarks. This person is right to an extent I guess but to me, I don't want critical comments in the gallary. A gallary is not my workshop where u come and leave critics for improvement , its a work of art in display, feel nice about it, say so or else move on. I have a reason to feel this way...... In photos gallary specially, you find people who are semi pros and full pros coming up and saying..... hey, it lacks focus. there is too much exposure...... did you use the light meter?? A picture of a flower and they are like....... was it too windy that day?? you should try on a day when there is no wind. Now, for a person like me who just uses a digital cam and not a hifi manual setting camera, lot of technical details are unimportant. I find beauty in a blurr and i find beauty in a windy shake to a flower too. I view it as an art and they view it as a photo work and they go about a technical evaluation of it than an artistic evaluation. Despite all this failing of mine as a photographer, at one point of time i had 8 images in top 20 which made me so embarassed that I can't express it. So, I was not good technically but I was a viewers choice I guess. So, I do agree with many that the top 20 works in a diffrent fashion than most sites. Honestly some of my photos were good and needed to be there and many that went upto there, I was tempted to delete them, they were not good enough. Now, having reached the top 20 on several occassions and even feeling embarassed about it at times, I think it would not be fair on me, if someone left a rude remark on one of my post saying..... i dont think this should be in top 20, it lacks merit...... now thats rude towards me for something I was not responsible for. That is what happened with my friend. Peace out!! :O)) SNAKEY

Well, the guy who made the comments is an American, and I will defend to the death this right to say that Americans are idiots. That's what makes America great ... our right to totally trash ourselves. I didn't even know that the photography gallery had a top 20. Nor do I know if any of my photographs ever got into the top 20, because, honestly I don't care. That has as much to do with politics and popularity as it does with the quality of the work ... sometimes it has more to do with politics and popularity than with the quality of the work ... which is why I never look at Hot 20s or Top 20s or whatever they call them. Because I don't bother to look there, I wouldn't see if someone posted that something of mine was a piece of crap that didn't belong there. And, I wouldn't care ... or I'd probably agree with them (low self esteem, doncha know). Also, the gallery instructs posters to post comments that can help improve the quality of the images. So, you can't really blame someone who makes such a comment. However, I agree that I prefer to post WIPs in the forum and have everyone do the critical comments here rather than in the gallery. Having said that, I have (on more than one occasion) posted an image, had someone make a comment indicating how I could improve the image ... I've instituted the comment and posted the new image (with a comment of my own that this is a repost and what was changed). Again ... it doesn't bother me. There are a lot of people in the world who speak first and think later ... I make my living cleaning up their verbal messes. If you (or your friend) internalize something any individual says -- about you, about your friend, about your artwork or her artwork, about a country, or even about the senseless death of several thousand people -- you are going to give yourselves ulcers.

Yes, its brutal, its hard and it hurts.

Keep in mind that on this forum and in these galleries are more than just patriotic Americans, here are also doubtfull Americans and Europeans who have been been mislead by their governements about the current affairs that followed the 11th of september 2001.

It is brutal honesty and sure is a good critic, to bad you can't stand it, but then life is not fair, that goes for the majority of those who live on this planet.

Its a hard world, its unfair, learn to live with or do something usefull other than this pointless bickering about so called rude comments.

As we say in holland "Ze kunnen beter over je fiets lullen als over je lul fietsen".
Robert, who now seeks the safety of his bomb-shelter

http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=shadowdragonlord The gallery is still there, and rather good one to.

RobertJ .... we're talking about two different galleries here. The one that was taken down (which was apparently a woman's gallery), and the one you are referring to, which I agree is a good gallery. If you read the thread carefully, you'll see that there was one person (the woman) who made a rude comment to Snakey's lady friend ... and then a second comment made to Snakey himself by shadowdragonlord. Mind you ... it can get a bit confusing.

Allow me to look at it again ^_^;

i can't be arsed reading the novels posted here (i am a headline reader!) but skim reading has lead me to believe shadowdragonlord is on a destructive warpath thingy at the moment. prehaps he should be made to take a time out and go and sit in the poser forum for a bit. he might come back and be a bit nicer to everyone. he had a couple of posts deleted a few days ago by AS... John

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

?????!!!!!! An impolite comment because I wrote that I found excessive to see a commonplace image in Hot20 with 20 or 25 comments "excellent" while those of true good artists have it only 4 or 5???? In what was my message impolite??? Please, well read again it because I believe that you did not very well seize the sense of my papers. What I regret (and this is not for me because I always had very good comments), it is that, for several months, I noticed that was enough resources of good friends to be propelled to the rank of the best artists. Do you find it normal??? Next to that, you have very good images, realized by artists who put only very rarely comments, who meet themselves only with 4 or 5 comments, sometimes even criticisms on behalf of those that put "excellent" on inferior images. Then yes, I find that it is a pity, and that, in these conditions, art is not recognized any more as such, but in the fault of the relations which one can have. Please, if you want help somebody, make tutorials, give advices, but it is not by persuading him (her) that what it makes is excellent that you will help him (her). Indeed, why to make efforts because one says to me that I am excellent??? I believe that all, you did not absolutely understand what I wanted to express. On the other hand, I am anxious to indicate that this excellent person, so sweet, when one puts her comments which are not positive, sends back us very aggressive messages! While my initial message was not absolutely aggressive, I gave only my opinion. Now, if the possibility of commenting on images is made only to say " Wooow, it is beautiful, it is great, artistic, made magnificently ", say it and that only these comments are authorized, it was necessary to clarify it before. Where is freedom of expression in that case? Is it always necessary to put positifs comments and ever to say what does not go to the system???? My comment was no agressive and not tactless, and, in fact, did not even address this person. It addressed especially to the persons who put wrongly positive comments, this to point out to them that next to it, they abandoned those that deserved it really. I have myself a 2 and 3D community, with a forum, In which I make maximum to help the beginners.I spent there days and nights (and I continue to make iy) to bring all that a person who begins needs. I think very sincerely that it is like that that one helps somebody who needs advices, by acting. And certainly not by calling him (her) that what he makes is magnificent. And, please, take a look to the others images, even though these persons do not post you comments. And I repeat that this is not for me, because, each time, I had very good comments. How do you want that one takes a gallery seriously if all the good comments go only to the images of the beginners, while abandoning beautiful creations??? Please...Be just, honest and help really those that need it with true helps, and not with words which put to sleep. Sincerely. (excuse me for my bad English, I am French, and write in English is difficult for me. But I hope that you will understand that I wrote) SylvieB92.

Apparently they thought it was a rude comment. But, I suppose it was a part of the endless debate about what gets into that silly Hot20. My favorite comments are the ones I get here in the forum on my WIPs. They are constructive and well thought out and always expressed in kind terms. It can be distressing to put a huge hunk of your soul into something, post it in your gallery, and then have someone say they hate it ... or not say anything at all. I think perhaps the comment you made, whatever it was Silvie, hurt the lady in question because she had done something she was proud of ... and enough people voted her into the Hot 20 to make her feel correct in her assumption that it was a good piece, and then your comment seemed to slap her down. Whether or not that was what was intended.

I think i understand the situation now, Sylvie youre absolutely right. Honesty is appearantly only appreciated by some if it meets their own standards, if fails that standard than it is called a rude comment or critic and should be banned or something like that. I stand by my opinion posted earlier in this thread.

I guess on a related subject, we have a writer's forum here, where poetry is a regular feature..if they give you too much grief, you're certainly welcome there..
I guess Art, which is an expression of emotion as much as anything else, tends to hit us personally at times..I'll always take constructive criticism, as well as give, as best I'm able. Politics is something that few can agree on..so anything remotely political is going to grind someone's axe, somewhere..
Opinions are like Aholes, everyone's got one..
-anonymous..of course, if someone steps over the line, that's what we pay the..(huh? we don't?..oopsie) moderators for..hang in there.

This image is deleted, so, I can't see my exact message and you will can not see it. But I said that I had nothing against this person who seemed to me to be very nice, but that her image didn't deserve a Hot20, that this way of proceeding lowered the level of the gallery (and there I addressed the persons who wrote so many laudatory comments)and that, if that continued so, the good artists would eventually left this gallery, the good comments not going towards them but towards those that had good friends. And that was enough now resources of numerous friends to see propelling in Hot20. I don't remember the exact terms, but it was about it, no more and no less So, tu see all these disproportionate comments, accompanied with offensive and aggressive IM, I find that it is a little bit strong!!

Oh, and I clarify that..all these IM were anonymous...of course!

Hmmm ... well to say that someone's image doesn't deserve to be in the Hot20 is, however indirectly, saying that you don't think it's good work. And, I can see that the comment might have really hurt the lady. But, I totally agree with you that there are pieces that end up in the Hot20 more because the people are popular than because the art has merit on its own. The number of agressive (and anonymous) IMs you recieved says a lot about the popularity of the person, but not much about the civility of her friends.

Hummm.....Sincerely.......This image wasn't good....a very, very basic image, really...The work of somebody who begins, who is quite new in a program so, to see its image in Hot20!!!.....It is not necessary to exaggerate not??? It was a Bryce image, and I know very well this program. Attention, I have nothing against the beginners, it is normal that they can expose what they make, we were all beginners. But from there to see an image as this one in Hot20... and this only because this person has numerous friends not.... It is not necessary to forget that Hot20, especially at Renderosity who is the biggest world site of 3D, is the shop window of this world with all the other communities, and this is certainly not an exploitation.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

And, next to that, to see beautiful images, made well , mastered well, with only 4 or 5 comments, this under excuse that the artist does not put any comment or little on those of the others... there I do not agree. And that is why, and this engaged only me, I preferred to give officially the reasons of my departure and to delete all my gallery. I do not want to be any more in a gallery where only knowledge are a recognition of the practised art. Even when it is naughty..

I understand, or at least I understand most of what you were saying (and your English is a whole lot better than my French). There will always be big and little injustices in the world. The Hot 20 is one of the little ones. Big or little, oft times there isn't a bloody thing we can do about them. But one thing everyone can do, if they choose to anyway, is to make their comments really constructive. By that, I don't mean blanket praise (although if the piece is perfect in your eyes, what else can you say?), but if it misses the mark, say why and what the person might do to improve. Just saying something doesn't belong in a gallery, or shouldn't be in the Hot20, is expressing an opinion ... but one without a foundation. Although, there is a lot to be said for expressing one's frustration. Venting is good for the soul ... or so I've heard. I guess the problem with venting when the topic is artwork, and the artist is taking the brunt of it ... oh, you know, it's like calling someone's baby "ugly". It may be an honest statement of fact, but that doesn't mean it absolutely had to be said.

I agree, when you say that, to help somebody, the better comment is to say how to make to improve this image. But, but...put only comments as: Oh, this is fabulous, oh, you are a master, oh your artwork is so great, so artistic...then it isn't true, here I can't say that it is an help. Of course, this is kind from the persons who post that, I understand, but it is not as well as one is going to help the person. Well, that, I have already written it higher. And furthermore, here, in France, it is 3 hr in the morning lol! So, I wish you an excellent day and, I am going to close my eyes:) Sylvie.

Well, there are two ways of going about critiquing someone's work, 1. Directly brutal, with no thought or willingness to offer alternative methods to achieve the artistic goal 2. Tact, finding something good in the image FIRST, and then offering a direction to take, and/or method of improvement. I fear there is no common ground on comments in the gallery, and always suggest posting an image to the forum of the particular software, to first get critiques AND help on improvement, before posting to the gallery...and it is true the galleries are for visual arts, and writing sentiments across the face does not consititute an 'excellent' on the underlying artwork if it is not up to that quality. There's been enough said on the hot20 to fill a tome the size of Texas so just ignore it...

mmm.. I don't undestand all you have put...Even with a translator, because, often, is needed a translator for the translator... lol You know, in my first post, I addressed especially the persons who made wrongly positive comments, it was not really, in fact, for this (so sweet) person who took them for her and at once sent me obnoxious messages by IM. And I repeat that, my message was not agressive and indelicate, it was just my opinion in front of this degradation that one can notice at present in this gallery. Never I was offensive or offensice, contrary to all these messages which I received in return, and on behalf of this person, and on behalf of other. Fortunately, I have to say that I received much more messages of sympathy than opposite... Well...Although it is it, I have already said everything above... so... I do not regret anything of what I made. If only it could become aware that there is a moment when it is necessary to stop saying anything. Because, if that continues, numerous good artists will leave Renderosity. There is who of it already left, leave or are going to leave. If it is that you want, and well... continue so... I didn't wanted to use tact, because there is enough of it to see this gallery degrading, I believe that it was necessary that it is said. Pfff....you know, sometimes, it is necessary to tell the true, before it is too late...

What Zhann said....

whitesolardog, Maybe that, if you had read all the offensive IM which this person sent to me, you would understand better!!! And me, in this message, I was not offensive (as you are in your message), I played game, yours, that is to put pleasant messages in everybody to have the return of it! This is only a satyr, a mockery in front of your behavior which will make that a day, any more no check artist will come here.

And I say what I want, I make what I want, and, if this is not convenient for you, and well, you don't worry about me and about what I write. (this is for whitesolardog)

???...:):).....jalous??????:)).....oh what???????...sincerely, this is ridiculous.... It is because of people as you, who do not want to understand anything in anything, totally earthed up, who some leave and will never return in this gallery.

It is really pity that I did not keep the IM of this person, you would have been able to notice that this person so sweet becomes a witch in its papers when she wants it. And I am quite small in front of her, in these cases there!!!

Amen, Zhann. And to your comments about critiquing someone's work, I'll like to add one more that I shared with vjerana by email. That is -- it is very (very) hard to make a fair critique of artwork that you don't understand or that is not to your taste. Most of what is in her gallery is very highly colored and extremely surreal. There are some of us in the world (and I'm one of them) who thinks that people who only do surreal pieces may be limited by a lack of ability -- if they call it "surreal" then they don't have to worry about perspective, texture, lighting or much of anything else. Of course, I could be wrong (and often am). But, the point is, I never comment on surreal (or very abstract) works unless they have a lot of technical expertise apparent, simply because whether or not I "like" something isn't worth a pin as artistic commentary. I went to a real live modern art gallery some time back, and this guy was showing his artwork which consisted largely of blank canvases. Yup ... plain old blank canvases. The installation was some sort of statement, and I certainly didn't get it, and I probably even called it crap. So what?? Some other person probably paid a couple of thousand dollars for one of those blank canvases. I doubt the artist would have given a fig if I had made my opinions evident ... because I'm nobody in the art world anyway. Now that I've looked at vjerana's gallery and some others, I think I see a big part of the complaint. Now, watch me express this poorly .... I think there are essentially three types of galleries. 1. The ones that are full of efforts by promising beginners -- and these generate a LOT of views and commentary because their friends want to provide both encouragement and suggestions. 2. Then there are those who are technically proficient enough that we don't get a lot of people teling us how to improve our work, and we haven't been around long enough to make friends who make a point of looking to see what we've posted (or we're jerks who have been around for long enough but still haven't made friend one) but also our artwork is not so jawdroppingly good as to make people stop dead in their tracks when one of our thumbnails pops up. I fall into that category, and we don't get so many comments or viewings. Hey, them's the breaks. 3. Last, there are the people who can make any program they use do flips, roll over and play dead. They also get a lot of viewings, maybe less commentary because there are only so many ways you can say "Oh my GOD!!" and no one but no one is ever going to make a comment on those suggesting an improvement. So, I think what chaps Sylvie's hide is that she's in category 2 with the bulk of us and thinks that the category 3 people should be the ones with all the viewing and commentary. And, it apparently bothers her no end that this is not the way the world necessarily works. But really, Hot20 or no Hot20, gallery comments or no gallery comments, we really know deep down inside who the Bryce "gods" (those category 3 folks) are around here.

It did not occur to you in the spirit that the persons who voted for me in Hot20 made it to show their agreement with what I had written??? Yes Zhann, i agree, I will ignore it now, because I destroyed my gallery, but this will prevent me from having badly for those that deserve to be there and that it are not because of anybody who play a completely falsified game. And I shall continue to come to bring my support for all these excellent artists who amaze me for their talent, and in whom I shall be always faithful:) So, I wish you my best encouragements of creativity:) And please, put comments on those whom deserve them...:) For me, this debate is closed, I said all that I had to say.

Lets move on people.This is getting real childish. If your words are soft and sweet, they won't be as hard to swallow if you have to eat them.

SylvieB92: In the Top 20?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincerely......it is incredible!!!! The big artists will not come any more in this gallery if that continues like that! I have nothing against you Vjerana:):) You appear to me to be somebody very nice:) but openly, if it is enough, now , to post comments everywhere by growing "oh" and "ah" on any image to obtain votes, I do not see any more the interest of this hot 20. 02/05/2004. This is to refresh Sylive, her comments to the post which was the first of the rude series or should i say, Rude top 20s. SNAKEY

and this one spiced with the best of sacrcasm......... SylvieB92 Wooow!!! What a stunning piece of art!!!! Fantastic!!! Awesome!!!! What a genius!!!! This image deserveve the Hot20, certainly!!!! What mastery in this creation, what beautiful colors, awesome lighting, postwork and imagination, what excellent idea too!!!! Indded, one recognizes there your sweetness and your kindness in this image so peaceful and so sweet...I never seen a so beautiful image in this gallery, you are a master!!! Pleaaase, continue to share with us your so magnificent artworks my dear and so sweet Vjerana, this image give evidence of your so sweet of state of mind and your infinite kindness! Really extraordinary!!!! My vote, of course!!!!! WWWoooowwww!!!!!!! Woooowwwww!!!! Woooowwwww!!!!!! I am admiring!!! 02/08/2004. This gives reason to believe that you pick and choose on one person and bang their self confidence and self esteem and p*** them off to such an extent that they quit working. Like most of my friends above agree that Democracy is a big issue, I reserve my right to Vote on anything I like and I think it is childish of you to go p****y about it. Grow up Sylvie.......... what more proof do you want that just cause this person went upto top 20 you were compelled to delete your whole gallary?? She is not that bad an artist that you felt the need to delete your entire collection. I seriously want to ask you, are you alright??

As regards, comments , ranks and Votes......... I seriuosly feel, and in this respect would agree with vicki and sylvie...... that most of the comments that go into gallarys and most of the ranks and votes........ are motivated to a great extent to the artist under perview. With each post, you see a name too and no one dares to criticise the work of a pro or popular and none bothers to critic or comment some of the good work of art and they go unnoticed. I recently sold two photos of mine, not through renderosity or anything but which got it's display in the gallary at renderosity and someone contacted me and wanted to buy those images and as a result I had to remove them from the gallary as a part of agreement. These never made it to the top 20s, these were not heavily commented or praised but I guess whoever chose to buy it had some usefulness of it and it suited their bill sort of. So, I guess it really din't matter if it was liked by the masses or not. Then again, I think there is a way out of all this mess, if someone really tries hard. How about having a Genere wise gallary that carrys no name tag for the first week of post and then only showin inthe artists gallary? maybe, that will get us the real cream?? an unbiased opinion and rating?? I do not know how feasible it is and I doubt if someone is seriously going to consider it even but tere seems to be no recourse to this issue at hand. SNAKEY

Congratulations of selling some of your artwork, Snakey! It's true, what sells in the actual market will differ from what makes it here...for different reasons. You have to ask yourself if your image would make it to an art gallery, or not. There is the real test. The Hot20 won't give you that information...a lot just vote their favorites without considering the actual artiistic value. This is not meant as a criticism...just a statement of fact. Who here can consider themselves an artists' artist? Few here have formal education in art theory. Still, we can all learn a lot here from the people here. Working a program can be difficult enough without trying to understand what makes it "art" and what doesn't.

Yes Snakey, and another on mine: Just a question... Why would not you continue to make images???? This gallery is made for that:) Thank you not to confuse everything. And this addresses all wich, stubborn and mindless, who do not want to understand anything. I do not speak and write English very well, but I hope that you understand. And yes...continue, of course! Oh...and yes, Hot20 is for the best artworks! And if you, all, you have the right to vote and put excellent, I have the right to tell what I think!!!!! And yours Snakey, just over mine: These are beautiful flowers coming from you VJ and however pissed people like sylvie may sound I will continue to vote for the art of love:O)) : What is the most offensive??????????????????

Sylvie, you seem to assume all of the people here on Renderosity are experts in art theory...and they are not. You expect too much of them.

Okay, because there are so many differing points trying to be made here, a good rule of thumb is; 1. Preface your comment with,'In my OPINION, blah, blah, blah....' if you don't have any technical expertise with which to aid the artist, and as everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no two opinions will be the same, those you don't like, take with a grain of salt or just ignore... 2. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't comment just to comment, there have been alot of images I just didn't like, but I also felt no compunction to leave a comment to that effect either....trashing someones work only makes you look bad...no matter how bad the artwork is... 3. If you do have something constructive to say, do so tactfully and offer alternative direction or technical help if you can, as artists we are tender in the feelings department, art is what we 'feel' internally, it is a very personal expression of oneself to be putting out for the world to critique, good or bad... I was at a gallery opening that featured three of my works in Aspen, a very tough crowd, and was standing nearby while two well to do ladies were discussing one of my paintings, one saying how -she- would have used this color here, that color there, and maybe rearrange the objects, and that would have made the painting better...The other one did the same thing saying it was all wrong, and should have been done in all pinks, because -that- was the color she liked most, it took every bit of my control to keep from choking the living sh*t out of both of them, this was my personal vision, not a painting by committee, so think about what you say before you say it, how would you feel getting that type of comment on -your- work......

I've had a painting rejected because it was "too pretty" by an art gallery. They wanted only "ugly" paintings. Sheeshhh... can't keep everyone happy most of the time. ;c)

Sylvie had her art up here, white...but took her whole gallery off a few days ago over the "Hot20" issue.

She said she was going to stop by here anyways to just check on things(paraphrasing) ...but no more gallery from her.

"All I can see is that whining Goodbye message, and she still hasn't left!"

I think Sylvie has a right to express her feelings or frustration, just like everybody else. I am sorry to see her go, as a fine modeller and a great artist, who has contributed tons of freestuff I used in many of my works. I think quoted sentence is totally out of place.

As for negative comments, I received a few as well, don't like them, but learned a lot from them. As for myself, I prefer as Zhann not to comment if I really don't like an image and have nothing contructive to say.

As for the top 20, maybe Rosity can arrange you can only vote once per IP (Also for the contests)and not per account. And lets all vote for the good works and be honest.

Exactly, Creations! :-)

"I wish Sylvie would post some her art so we can have a chance to comment on it!" I wish you would put yours as well.

Like Thumper's mama told him ... "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Goin' to beddie-bye now. Long horrible day tomorrow.

I have read them. And because of what she said you can be rude as well as you think she is? So where is the difference?

"Vjerana lives in Croatia so the subject of peace is on her mind, much more than someone living in New York , London or Paris for example. Viewing her art makes a lot of people feel happy and positive because it comes from her heart, technical skill is not the be all and end all. The greatest Bryce technician might not be able to put out a good work of art"

Why somebody in New York might not have peace on his mind? Did they not see terror and violence? Does his art not come from his heart? Must we vote for something because of pitty or sympathy?

I think that we might all be a little more hesitant to be rude if we didn't have some degree of anonymity. I don't believe some folks would be so rude if they thought the person on the receiving end of their venom might show up on their doorstep with a Louisville Slugger to "discuss" rude comments. Please remember to be civil. John

Hmm... whitesolardog just deleted all of his/her posts. Oh well, atleast the mods can still see all the posts (deleted or not) and see whats gone on...

As someone who tries to leave positive, constructive, comments only....I followed Snakey's link (first post above) then went and looked at the rest of his gallery, and I'm forced to agree with what shadowdragonlord said. The standard of the work in Snakey's gallery is way above his 9/11 image. I realize that for Americans 9/11 has become iconic, but I'm weary of images of two towers, with curly typed words on top. Self-critical faculties seem to be abandoned. Every nation on earth has had tragedies, and some of those tragedies are ongoing.

We probably all agree that honest comments are most valuable. I try to give honest comments and express my opinions in the forum. The latter has started one or two flames in the forum but that is my own fault probably (my blunt ways of expressing myself and I'm often ignorant until I know better). I will continue to post posts in the forum but I will be more careful when posting comments to submissions in the gallery. Once I posted this comment to a persons (mentioned in this thread) image: "Hmm you need to work on your shadows and how the textures behave. The objects also need to be smoothed." In response I got some angry IMs and silly comments in my gallery. This has happened several times and has resulted in that I ignore those persons.

"I realize that for Americans 9/11 has become iconic, but I'm weary of images of two towers, with curly typed words on top." - pogmahone You seem to be sure that Snakey saw all those images, too. Perhaps he hadn't seen any of them. Snakey might have lost a loved one in that disaster. Thousands of people did. And not just Americans, people from many nations. And Snakey is from India, he's not American. "Hmm you need to work on your shadows and how the textures behave." -bazze "Hmm" is not a nice way to start a comment. What was wrong with the shadows and textures? Did you attempt to explain what you meant? There's a difference between being honest and being tactless, guys (I know, because I've been both - tactless got me kicked in the teeth). I honestly believe that neither of you meant to hurt anyone's feelings, just as I am trying to give my point of view here without stepping on your toes. It's not so much what we say as how we say it. When we type, no one can hear our inflections, they can't always tell if we're being sarcastic, friendly or whatever. Icons can help, but it is easy to be misunderstood, especially when there is a language barrier. John