I have just seen what I consider a GREAT offer on a new PC. The only thing is, it's an Athlon, and so far I've always sworn to Pentium so I really don't know if an Athlon is any good? It's called an Athlon XP3000+ with 512 Mb Ram (double of what I have now...) and a 200Gb HD and GeForce Fx5200 (I KNOW Poser doesn't care about the graphics card) DVD Burner. WinXP home as well. The brand is MicroMaxx, same as the one I have. German computers, usually VERY good for the money. I am DROOLING and almost ready to sell a kidney, but... the Athlon part bugs me. Do I have any reason NOT to buy it?

I'm running Windows 2000 on an Athlon XP1800+ with 1GB RAM. Poser 5 runs fine. Poser 4 Pro Pack works fine as well.

Jeff

AMD part numbers don't reflect the actual clock speed, but rather what AMD reckons to be the Pentium clock speed that would be needed to equal the performance. So it may not be the same as a 3GHz Pentium in an individual application, but across the board you'll not see much difference. There was a time when Intel's floating point arithmetic was reckoned to be much faster than others', but I don't think that's the case any more. I've used AMD processors nearly all the way, mainly because of their value for money. Those irritating Intel adverts that we get on TV in the UK are another good reason. :) The memory and disk space will both be handy for Poser use as well. Make sure you can add to both of them when you need to. :)

I've been using AMD chips since I built my first system 4 years ago - they are excellent value for money and performance wise are excellent also. I'm onto my thrid AMD chip a 2400+ and it handles poser and everythign else I throw at it admirably. I agree with EnglishBob - those bloomin' Intel ads are annoying :oD

Hi ernyoka1, Been running AMD Anthlon 2200,XP Home,512mb RAM with PPP since I got in to Poser. The setup has always run GREAT. I just recently doubled my RAM and added a real ATI Graphics card for DAZ Studio. But up until now I've been running it with one of the onboard chip sets and it still ran excellent. :-)

Actually, that is my business! The Athlon processors are what's called Performance Rated, a XP 2400 CPU runs at 2.0 GHZ for example. The Intel 2.4 GHZ runs at 2.4 GHZ but the AMD chip perofrms as fast if not faster than the Intel chip on similar configuartions. Most professionals use the AMD CPU for cost savings and business applications, however, Gamers and serious high-end Animation and graphics intensive users go to the Intel because the AMD generates a lot more heat than the Intel CPU's. Balance your needs and get what you need for what you do most. In 15 years as an IT Pro, I've had 6 CPU failures from AMD and 22 from Intel because I amke most of my business machine AMD and sell the Intels to the Gamers and Graphic Artists. Spend $90.00 more and upgrade the RAM to 1.0GB. P5 loves 1.0 Gig of RAM! Good Luck!

ive never really noticed a difference between AMD and Intel. but i never have used them side by side either. I know AMD is slightly lower in price, thats why my last upgrade was from an intel to an AMD. If i were you, I would go ahead and get the new system if it is a good deal. The only thing i would do right off the bat however, would be to up the RAM to a gig. That alone will have a serious impact on performance. Regards, E

I have an AMD 2800+ (clock speed 2.08 GHz) with 1 Gb of RAM, and a Pentium 4 3.06 GHz with 1 Gb of RAM. In a P5 Render test conducted by Jim Burton, last year, my AMD actually outperformed the Intel by a few seconds. Jim presented a table with the test results and most AMD's outperformed their Intel counterparts despite their lower clock speed. Most of my previous machines were AMD's (amd 1800+, AMD athlon 1.4 thunderbird, AMD 350 Mhz, AMD 100DX. I chose them for economic reason, but I've been pretty satisfied with them so far. JV.

I have a 2000 in mine, run Poser 3 and 4 (yeah, I like cold showers too..;), no problems to speak of..even when running Bryce and Wings simultaneously..

I use AMD. They work fine. BTW see if that chip is a Barton chip. The FPU on that series is way better than the older AMD models and runs cooler than the older models. In fact, the Barton chips are cooler all around and run better. An AMD 2.5 barton will run better than an AMD 2.8 non-barton and run cooler. My only complaint on AMDs is that they overheat more when playing games but that solvable by buying a better fan and perhaps an aux fan. Again the Bartons don't appear to overheat as badly and I can run Hitman 2 or other games without rebooting issues like the older chips did. In any event, I've never had a reboot from running a p5 render.

Mason, great point! I almost forgot about the Barton because that's the only I use in my systems now. Yes, even more so always add an additional case fan, ball bearing type only, whendealing with AMD's. It's weel worth the extra $10 for the case fan!

I have always used AMD CPU's and have no complaints.

AMD is the shiznit!

I think the major difference is that (in general) AMD CPUs become hotter than Intels. Other than that, fast is fast, and your images will look the same anyway.

I have 2 working computers, one with an older AMD K6 2 @ 500mHz and a newer AMD 2400+.... both give me excellent performance with Poser and all my 3D programs. I believe they perform a bit faster than Intel as far as realtime clock speed and I am sticking with AMD chips. A good cooling fan is a plus since they do run a bit faster and hotter than Pentium. A good tip is to never skimp on your cooling fans no matter what chip you are using...a good cooling system is cheap insurance.

I've had good experience with AMD chips, and currently run a machine with similar CPU and RAM. I urge you to get more RAM from the start for Poser.

Thanks for all your replies :o) I went ahead and bought it. Cost the equivalent of approx. 1300$, that's pretty cheap here. Another 512 Mb Ram will follow as soon as I can afford it G Still 512 is the double of what I've ever had, so... Where can you see what chip is in it? Only by opening it up I s'pose? Does it then say Barton on the chip? Oh btw it comes with WinXP Home preinstalled, just like the one I had (have) I'll check about that cooling issue, after all my computer is on a lot of the time (not 24/7 though) The very first computer I ever bought (a 486SX) died from a failing CPU fan, something I am NOT keen on trying again :o) Ah and now I can make a nice clean install of Poser 5 with it's SP's. Not that I have had any problems so far. Thank God PPP resides on it's very own HD, so I can simply move that :) and then give Poser 5 it's own partition, There should be a corner of that 200Gb HD where there's room for it ;o)

$1300 doesn't seem that cheap to me...I paid ~450 Euros for my computer, and that one has 768MB RAM and also a FX5200 gfx card. Do the larger hard drive and the additional GHz really make a ~800 Euro difference?

Uh that's half price almost, Stewer.... But seriously things are expensive here. The VAT alone is 25% remember? While it's only 18% in Germany. And also since Denmark is a much smaller market, things automatically get more expensive. I did eye a computer almost like this one when I was in Flensburg last saturday. But y'know... I don't really like German Windows.. Or German keyboards ;o) Believe me: Here this is a BARGAIN!

Realatively new pc's here are only about ~$1,000 on entry level systems. ernyoka1's pc would have probably cost about that much here(or alot cheaper self-assembled).

Attached Link: http://www.outpost.com

ouch..I keep forgetting how much more expensive things are over there..depending on the machine.. you can probably find out some info by going into setup and seeing what it tells you (the Bios, that 'press F2 and another key to enter SETUP Screen). Then depending on your OS, there's usually an icon in Control Panel like System Information, etc., that may tell you. The web is bursting with free utilities to tell you what's in your system, you could try to look at Download.com, shareware.com (you get the drift..;)

I've never had an Athlon either Lisbeth. Some people swear by them.....others have problems. The place I buy from does not recommend them, because of problems they've had servicing them. On the other hand, there are a number of places in my area that sell them and won't recommend anything else! I think they are popular with people who like to "over clock" their computers to get better performance. I've heard they're faster than a PIV, but I think it's all relative to the benchmark tests you're using. I know they're cheaper.....but I doubt it has anything to do with quality and a lot more to do with the inflated "Intel" namebrand :) The price is a bit high for an Athlon.....more of a PIV price for that level of equipment. But prices do vary all over the world. I hope you like it and can upgrade that ram to 1G soon. You'll notice a big difference there! :)

In your start menu,go to programs>accessories>system tools>system information. That will give you all your specs of the computer. SWAMP

Damn, this thread is full of misconceptions! "AMD part numbers don't reflect the actual clock speed, but rather what AMD reckons to be the Pentium clock speed that would be needed to equal the performance." Not quite.. The model number is representitive of how fast the previous generation of Athlons would have to be running to keep up. "Most professionals use the AMD CPU for cost savings and business applications, however, Gamers and serious high-end Animation and graphics intensive users go to the Intel because the AMD generates a lot more heat than the Intel CPU's." Outdated.. The P4 generates a lot more heat than the Athlon these days man. The latest ones are real bad. The new 3.2Ghz Prescott P4 runs about 30F hotter than the Northwood P4 (163F vs 133F) at the same clock speed. Except for the initial Athlons (many many years ago), and now the current P4s, the heat dissipation between P4 and Athlon is a couple Watt difference. The so-called overheat problem of Athlons was not a result of higher heat generated, it was the lack of a thermal diode. Intel chips have had a thermal diode to shut them off and protect themselves from overheating for years. Most gamers go with Athlon because it is cheaper and faster. (I should know, I am a gamer and have been building systems for gamers for almost 10 years). Business users tend to go with the Dell's, thus they go with Intel. Animators go with the CPUs that used to always be better in those apps due to competitors incredibly slow FPU performance - Intel. However, if you look around you will see more and more firms switching to Athlon64s every day. Sandoppe - People who claim to have problems with Athlons or tell you not to buy them are either misinformed or just simply zealots. Bottom line is you will be doing great with a CPU from either company. The P4 and AthlonXP and Athlon64 are all fast CPUs.

I certainly agree with your assessment 1Freon1 about the users. Athlon's are definitely favored by gamers and the low end Celeron's by businesses who don't want to spend a lot on the hardware. A Celeron is an Intel processor that didn't quite make the testing "benchmarks" set for a true Pentium (sort of an "Intel second"). Most of the overheating issues can be managed by adequate and "quality" fans, properly vented cases and sufficient power supplies. I suspect those who have problems with Athlons, including the place I buy my computers, simply don't know how to set them up properly and don't want to spend staff time on it. Every computer has certain nuances. Another firm in town promotes the Athlon over the PIV for the very same reason......for them the PIV is more problematic. I suspect it's because they are most familiar with the Athlon and cater to gamers....and there's a better "profit margin" on the Athlons. I guess there are "zealots" on all sides of this issue. I've always had Intel based computers, but would certainly not buy a Dell (or an HP, Compaq, etc.) for my personal computer! Now....that's my bias. I have mine built to my specifications. That way I get the OS and the hardware that I want.....not something the manufacturer thinks I should want.

I have both, the current is a Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz and the one before was an Athlon AMD XP 2000, 1.6 GHz. Poser runs fine on both and I like both. Only problem I had was that the Athlon got very hot while rendering and sometimes rebooted when the CPU got too hot above 70C. I opened the case and placed a fan there to cool it down and that helped a bit. The P4 runs at 33.4C and only goes up to max 45C when I render a large image, but I guess that is because of the Thermaltake case with 7 fans ;-).

The only computer we truly had a LOT of problems with here was a celeron. So I won't have another one of those L So now I've tried a render with this new one and WHOA There's a GREAT difference. Mostly becourse of the doubled RAM I think, so I can dream of what it would be like with a gig of Ram more drooling So now I'm in the midst of the tedious task of reinstalling programs blech and trying to find the cd's with drivers and stuff L but then I'll have a nice clean (at least for some time) computer and the kids will have "new" computers too, as they get our old ones when we change :) They were right now left with some fairly crappy ones.... But still they're better than NO computer :o) And I so love this DVD burner in this one. I have wanted a dvd burner for a long time, and finally got it :D Now I only need some blank dvd's L But I am NOT going to buy them here, they're FAR too expensive. Germany is much much cheaper. Around half the price, due to some silly tax on storage medias here. But I dream of the day where I can take Poser backups without thinking about how to fit it on a cd rom :) Thanks again for all your inputs. And really, it IS cheap. :o)

Sounds like you are really going to enjoy this new computer Lisbeth! The DVD burner would account for a bit higher cost. They're not that cheap here! A word about "cheap". One of the reasons that some people have problems and maybe why it affects athlon users more than PIV users, is that there are a lot of people who "build from scratch" and who go with the athlon systems because they are less spendy than the Pentium. They make sure that they have a top quality motherboard (like an asus or abit and that permits the performance tweaking they like to do) and then try to save money by putting in a low end and under sized power supply, crappy plastic fans, and a cheap improperly ventilated and poorly insulated case. Then they add to that the cheapest ram you can buy. When you do this, you're asking for problems. Puntomaus, your description is exactly what I'm talking about. You put that athlon in a decent case and properly fanned and I doubt if you'll have those problems. My dream machine will cost about $1,600 american dollars. Prices in rural Minnesota tend to be a bit higher than they are in a metro area. But there won't be a cheap, low end component in it. And it won't matter if the processor is an athlon or a PIV, because the other critical pieces will be top notch and I'll be fairly certain that they are fully compatible with one another.

ernyoka, If the kids are getting the old computer, then my advice will be useless, but I'll give it anyway. What I was going to advise you to do was keep the new computer 'clean' - ie. DON'T use it for internet. Use the old one instead. Every time I switch computers, the old one moves down the line to become my net machine. Viruses? What do I care if my old junkheap's infected? And the difference in speed is usually nothing. mac

Maclean has the right idea as far as I am concerned. I have a new system still waiting to be set up, I am going to use it for a work station and keep the older one for my online stuff and 'feeder' system. Of course, the older one currently has all of my graphics and Poser stuff on it but will probably set the new one from the ground up and only transfer certain files from the old one...due to the fact my Poser folder is a total disaster at this point. To get back on topic, I repeat: AMD chips Rule!

I see what you mean about the internet connection. However since I feel really twitchy when I'm NOT online I doubt it's a good idea for me (Yeah I know.. I HAVE no life) The THOUGHT of an offline computer shivers When we're on camping and I have my Laptop (to play with Poser in the long evenings) the only thing that bothers me is the lack of internet connection. So often I am missing some prop or the like and think "Oh I can just download that"... then realise that... no, I CAN'T "just download" it.. oof. But from a security point of view you're totally right. I do have firewalls and stuff though (both a physical and a software firewall) as well as anti virus, spyware-checker and pop-up killers and the lot. So I feel I'm as protected as can be on an online computer. Thanks for your advice though. I'll keep it in mind :o)