Hi writers, I don't write words, nor do I draw - but I do I "write" software tools to help people do such things :-) Dialyn's recent post "Why I like words better than pictures" reminds me of a question that has been in the back of my mind for years: While it is clear from replies to Dialyn that some of you would prefer to leave the "visualization" to the reader's mind, I am curious whether that is always the case. Specifically, I am wondering whether partly there is a "technical" barrier: for some, writing flows naturally, for others, drawing flows naturally - it may be much effort to master both. So, I'd like to offer a thought experiment. While it is "unrealistic", as such experiments are, hearing people's thoughts on this would be of real use to me, in thinking about some tool ideas that I have. Suppose there were a magic box. It took your words, and created pictures to go with it. Obviously, you would cringe at the initial results: "No, that is NOT what I pictured". OK, but this is a SMART magic box. You tell it where and how it is is "off the mark", and it keeps trying to modify the picture to please you. Now, its not as smart as having an artist friend to work with, who can inject their own creativity. But the basic idea is that you talk to it in words and by choices -- it deals with all the details of drawing and layout. Again, this is not intended as a "realistic" proposal. The question is just this: If such a magic box existed, would you as a writer have a use for it? Would you consider publishing any form of "graphic book" using it, or would you prefer to stay with straight text?

I like this question. My response may surprise you. I would say, with reservations, "yes." I believe some stories should be left to the reader's imagination. I believe some graphics should speak without words. But there are cases in which I think there is a blending of graphics and words that enhance both. So I say a guarded "yes." I actually started with Poser because I had the idea I wanted to do a graphic novel. It never happened, but I am open to the idea.

There are a couple of questions there. No, I don't think I would use such a tool. I doubt an "image generator" would appeal to me. Would I consider publishing any form of "graphic book" (yes) with it (no). That is, I would be open to doing a graphic book, but again, doubt that I would use an image generator to illustrate it. Why? I have a hard enough time getting my current image generators (Poser, Vue, and PaintShop Pro) to produce what I envision in my mind's eye much less letting some software package attempt to translate my words into what it thinks I'm trying to visualize. I think conceptually it's along the same lines as an essay generator or mission statement generator (the Dilbert mission statement generator comes to mind). While they are fun to use, I would not use one to produce something I took seriously. One thing I think it might be good for is to generate an inspirational "starting point". Like the writing prompts offered in Writer's Digest i.e., here's a photo, now go write something based on it. An image generator could be used to generate an image that could then be used as a jumping off point. But I think that is very different than expecting it to generate illustrations for something I've already written. Just me. jon

It just occurred to me there is a rough analogy to music here. I'm one of those people who turn off the sound of their computer because I hate to go on to a website and find music imposed on me when I'm trying to read or view graphics. Yet when I am writing, I often want mustic. Have you ever typed to ragtime? You can't type slow to Scott Joplin. Would I expect anyone to read to ragtime? No. Sometimes it is folk music (Smothers Brothers; Peter, Paul and Mary; Limelighters). Sometimes it is soft rock. I wrote one story by playing Cindy Lauper's "Time after Time" over and over again. I played it so often that my dogs left the room. Same with Steve Winwood's "Don't You Know What The Night Can Do?" I've typed to opera too. Depends on what it is. Some music is best left without words. Some words don't need music beyond their own sound. Some times the blend of music and words is a perfect match, and one enhances the other. I'm trying to imagine one of my stories read to music and, I must admit, I don't see that improving either. And, yet, if the perfect piece of music was spun out of the thread of my words, would I want music with the words? And, again, I say I'm open to the idea. Because to say "no" automatically is to automatically limit the possibilities. And I don't think that's what writing is about. Lovin' this topic. Good response, Jon. You are, as ever, a thoughtful, participant.

Dialyn .... look and what you've gone and started! .... hehe.... good for you! .... now .... as for steve's ''magic box'' supposition .... I would never say never .... but,"my" mind is so goofy that I don't need 'help' (well, not 'that' kind of 'help'! - the kind of 'help' "I" need costs about $120 per hour???) .... That's why I love my 'double exposures' I take so much .... Literally, whatever my 'mind' can 'see' I can 'try' .... with practical limitations, of course .... that's why the 'pc' enters into things for me later on down the road .... as an 'aside' b/4 I comment on the 'music' idea ....Dialyn .... regarding your earlier posting, I've been thinking some more (scary thought!) .... I used to run some small companies ($20mm sales per year) .... worked in all areas and was assistant 'sales manager' .... My boss taught me that I could have 'the best product' and 'the best sales pitch' in the world .... but, when I 'knocked' on someone's ''door'' and they refused to let me 'in', it didn't matter about the above two items .... make sense??? .... now .... ''music''.... I think music is 'the' equalizer .... among 'races', 'countries', 'ideology' .... it crosses all barries to mankind .... "music soothes the savage beast" .... I have almost 1000 cd's of all types, and I mean 'all' types .... lol .... can you imagine watching a 'movie' and not having 'music' in it??? .... not good! .... lol .... great thoughts and comments from all! .... brian.

Cool responses! Gee, I didn't even think about SOUND, but as long as I've got a magic box, might as well have that option :-) Jon's response, and dialyn's discussion of music makes me think of another variation on this magic box: graphic box #2 contains hundred zillion different pictures made by artists and photographers (trying to work around jon's essay generator metaphor, which would indeed be drek). You: "Once upon a time, there was a princess, who lived in a castle, at the top of a hill." Box: shows a picture from one of the fairy tale books. You: "Sort of. But the kingdom is kind of poor, the scenery should be a bit darker, more anxious, I don't want this happy-happy feel. And I'm tired of King Arthur and the Round Table -- Hey, did they have castles in Persia?" Box: shows five different alternatives. One is a fortified town from an Eastern European outpost of the Ottoman empire, during its decline in early 1800's. You: forget the castle, that looks interesting. What would the daughter of the guy in charge look like? ...

Steve .... hello .... sounds to me like you maybe outta' try to actually 'invent' the darned thins! .... lol .... thanks for your postings! ....brian.

Dialyn and all .... I just posted something .... writers gallery .... ''politics'' .... Let me know if you think the 'roadrunner pic' with the 'help' sign 'got you' to look at it better than if it had no pic, ok?? .... and, do you think it might have gotten 'others' to look better??? .... thanks, kindly for your honest responses .... brian.

roadrunner: While an image catches my eye, I would no more click on that particular image, than I would click on a post with a heading of "Help" -- with no information about WHAT Help is needed (And I like to help people). Whether words or image, when browsing, I want enough "information" to judge whether something is likely to interest me. Information lies in the relationships between the parts. Here, are just two parts: the roadrunner, and the help sign. Sorry, not enough. I don't care. Now, if that image were juxtaposed with something relevant to the story, that started to make a statement... then I would at least consider clicking.

QUOTE FROM STEVE .... and, do you think it might have gotten 'others' to look better??? .... hello .... thanks for your comments .... I kinda' ''figured'' out what 'you' would do by your earlier writings, steve .... lol.... but, I got 'alot' more 'hits' than without a 'pic'(look at my 'writings' only pieces with no pics) .... lol .... as for 'what' the 'help' was 'info' you needed more of .... it said below the picture 'writers/politics' ....while, obviously, not a 'definitive' clue, it was a small one .... enjoy your posts .... brian.

Steve .... hello,again .... Just looked at your 'bio' information, homepage, etc .... are you here at renderosity as a 'merchant' only and are you planning to post some type of works here in the future? .... would love seeing them .... take care .... brian.

I have lately posted a few images with some writing to go with it... the reactions were very positive...they seem to go well together. But some people overhere do not need images to support their writing..they have such a good way with words...could a program capture a mood/feeling close enough as the writer intended it ???

It is supposedly a smart magic box, so one would hope so. :)

Brian--"are you planning to post some type of works here in the future?" Yes, indeed! Poser-compatible utilities and add-ons. First one next month. It is not directly related to this topic. "WardrobeValet", it adapts clothes from one Poser character to another. Also contains a "3D Clothes Internet Directory", which is my first teensy weensy step towards cataloging graphic stuff. If you look at www.shawstudio.com, the sidebar on the right, you'll see mention of a LINGUISTIC project (currently on hold) that relates more deeply to my desire to organize meanings, and then use that to help people communicate. Eventually, everything I do ties together...

violet--"capture a mood/feeling close enough as the writer intended it" I see computer smarts evolving to COMPLEMENT people smarts. The computer's strength is ORGANIZATIONAL. Under human guidance, it can collect and name and inter-connect lots and lots of alternatives. While its a magic box, I see it as a magician's assistant -- still needing a magician to be of service to. So it might take a stab at what mood you mean, based on key words and phrases. I see it as quickly generating a number of alternatives. Then you, the magician, say "more like this, less like that", and it tries to comply, giving you a new set of alternatives. You may also EXPLAIN what mood you intended. And you may POINT OUT what it is that doesn't match your intent. Like a thesaurus, you can find NEAR-BY alternatives, that you might not have thought of. With luck, this dance between person and machine, leads to something interesting, more quickly and more effectively than either could do alone.

Here is a little vignette, that points at my interest in reaching younger folk... "There are TWO magic boxes?" asked Alice, growing perplexed. "There are as many magic boxes as your imagination can hold" answered CheshireCat123, as its post began to scroll away. Oddly, its g remained fixed in the middle of the screen. "Box #2 was the Gryphic-Graphic Thesaurus and Possible-Realities Historian. Box #1 was the Potterian Rearranger, in which you ask the pictures to stand on tiptoes, and they stick out their tongues and make faces at you. I'm sure you'll meet more boxes, by skipping stones and weaving wheat." Alice tried to picture "skipping stones" and "weaving wheat", but her young life lacked experiences that matched those phrases, so her images were vague and hazy...

There is the possibility that the images with the same topics /moods etc. have images that look-a-like.... hhmmm let me see.... A little more clouds...a bit less blue...the sun on the left...a tree overthere...a person who has a little smile but looks shy...dark atmosphere...some light here in the front...hhmmm....it is....it looks like...Prycer...(Poser and Bryce) ;-) just having fun... It would be very interesting to see where this leads to... A quick way to make a supporting image to go with the writing.....great idea.. I myself am trying to find a balance between what is supporting what....at this time my words are supporting the images... take care and keep up the good work

violet, I like the mental playing with "Prycer" :-D How I picture this: Imagine that you had an assistant who was operating the computer. You talk to that assistant. You stick to the "concepts", as in your middle paragraph. Not have to figure out HOW to accomplish those tasks. :) Like any assistant, it doesn't always do what you thought you meant - so you mix sweeping requests with little adjustments.