Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=3870

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=3870

(have to be a PC member to view the link, sorry).

I wonder if DAZ ever promised that they wouldn't remove PC items from the PC store and charge more for them?

Cliff

You have to be a PC member to read the posting...interesting...

What the hell are they doing now? For months now they've been screwing up right, left, and center, making decisions that angered people and made themselves look bad. They change the rules for a contest in the middle, they support and condone copyright violation, they don't answer emails, now they're starting to piss off and dismiss their brokers... I don't like the way this is starting to look. bonni

This is a very rare occcurance (the first time ever, to my knowledge) and happened only after a lot of discussion. Because Silverleif Studios is not participating in the PClub any more, DAZ and Silverleif decided to pull her current PClub items and place them solely in the Premier Store. Silverleif is graciously allowing a 2 week period for PClub members to buy her stuff at the PClub price before the items are only in the Premier store. The original PClub plan was that items would never be a "limited time PClub" event, but unfortunately, this has had to change to almost never. This is something that DAZ hopes won't happen again, but as the saying goes, "Never say never again." The message is posted in the PClub forum because it affects PClub members only. Soon, everyone will enjoy her products in the Premier store. Hope this helps clear things up, Cres

And all this time I thought Silverleif Studios was Anton's monicker. Oh well, slap me with a feather.

Cres, thanks for trying to explain. It doesn't do much to soothe my concerns, though. DAZ just seem to go from one blunder to another to another. Do they actually have any idea how their reputation is eroding in the community? Or do they just not care? bonni

Have no other products been introduced at PC prices and then moved to the main store at higher prices? I recall a minor revolt last time... when DAZ decided that they had items that would "preview" at PC prices and then move into the store at "full price". PC members complained then that products were not supposed to move, but not very strongly.

PC members are NOT the only ones to be affected by this. Shortly the SS products will be available (if they are not already) at higher prices - and ONLY at higher prices. This will mean this change affects probably all potential DAZ customers, and especially those considering buying into the PC (perhaps partially affected by the wonderful products that SS made?).

If DAZ makes agreements on one side (all PC products will remain at the $1.99 price for as long as your membership is valid) and a DIFFERENT agreement on the other side (you can sell products in the PC but can pull them later) it is not the fault of the members that the agreements do not tally.

It really doesn't matter to me IN THIS INSTANCE who is responsible for thinking they'd like the SS products pulled from the PC - it is IMHO entirely down to DAZ to either keep their word or, once again, break it.

As for how it came about - that looks very sad from the outset, and I'm not sure I want to tarnish DAZ's name any further by knowing any more than I do (which is only from the DAZ statement of what's happened).

Cliff

http://www.daz3d.com/support/index.php?id=55 has been changed, at least once. It used to contain the phrase:

Quote - The Platinum Savings Club products will not be rotated in and out

(at least that's what it said AFTER the 'premiere preview' items were introduced). It now says: > Quote - The Platinum Savings Club inventory is not a rotating sale. Items that are in the Platinum Club listing generally remain for the duration of there time on the DAZ store. Occassionally, some items will be placed into the Platinum Club for a limited period of time, though this is not the norm. The Platinum Savings Club library grows with new content weekly.

I have run out of time so I shan't be researching much more today unless my kid falls asleep - so I'll just leave you with: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=924849 > Quote - The Club must maintain an inventory that does not changed and cannot be removed unexpectedly thus disappointing or misleading members with disappearing products

Anyone who can, please see if you can find any other reference to this aspect of the deal, particularly when it was just starting up IIRC. Cheers, Cliff

.

Is there a list of what items have been removed, out of interest? (I can't read the link).

Attached Link: http://secure.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=artistlist&artist=13682

While not privy to the info, I see nothing wrong with this at all. SSS is no longer partisipating in the PC Club, good for them, their products are great and they should get a better 'cut' if they want to. Free market and all that jazz.

This will probably get me jumped on from a great height by a lot of folks..but, lets get this in perspective. The agreement between SS and Daz is their commercial affair - if one side sees a financial advantagem they are entitled to pursue that advantage. I still think the Plat Club is a great idea. There are STILL an awful lot of good things there at an incredible price. Admit it..how many of you have brought stuff you wouldn't normally have because you liked it and MAY use it sometime..simply because it was $1.99 ? Would you have brought those articles if they were , say $10 - $15 ? We all benefit from the Plat Club - so lets not see minor hiccups as the End of the World. End of my rant from Down Under. Y'all have a Happy Easter ! :)

I think you are missing the point here - the issue is not that we should be happy with whatever we get because it's only $1.99 - the issue is, we joined PC in good faith believing what they said, that the products in PC would remain in PC - now we learn that 100+ products will be removed from there in 2 weeks. I ask - who's next? Daz's rules and regulations seem to change almost as often as the wind.

Well I JUST came to the point now, after two "PC vouchers" months that I can't find anything to spend it on, that my PC club costs me $12.95 a month to be ABLE to buy the fantastic $1.99 items... still a bargain for sure... and I can quit at any time that there are no more PC products to keep me in the club, I know... so I will let my $$ speak for me and wish SS the best...

The real problem here, IMO, is that DAZ's treatment of SS. They fired her from the PC when she was sick and couldn't work. If she's not in the PC, her products can't be. (Unless DAZ wants to buy them all, which would be very pricey, given how many she has.)

I can't believe they can't find a way to keep her in the PC. What if someone else gets sick or needs to take time off for some reason? Shouldn't they have some extra capacity built in? Are we going to go through this every time someone needs time off from work?

I hadn't realized they were down one PC artist for awhile until this broke, but I guess it explains why the PC offerings were so uninspiring for awhile...

"when DAZ decided that they had items that would "preview" at PC prices and then move into the store at "full price". PC members complained then that products were not supposed to move, but not very strongly." Actually that's a bit inaccurate, originally the PC items were available in the store at a the regular price and then to PC members at a discount with a variety of new items added that were exclusive to PC. Eventually the PC items were made PC only and then they went back to offering certain items to the general public at the regular price. What concerns me in this is that they did not contract the work in the first place in such a way as to insure that it could not be moved from one section to another - they should allow it's removal entirely but there should have been protection for ALL of them to insure that the items stayed and that the creator continued to reap whatever benefits that were due to her for the products in the PC. Sadly it is a business and when Merrilyn was ill they truly had to replace her - otherwise everyone would have complained about lack of content. But they most certainly should have contacted her that was just shoddy (and in general I'm a DAZ fan) for someone who helped them launch the PC in the first place. At 120 items that they want to allow members to purchase that is $119.40 in 2 weeks if you only want half of them $238.80 if you want them all.

The 120 items being removed include almost all the Vicki2 and Michael2 clothing. And much of the Vicki2 textures vicki A2Z. This is the part no one is mentioning. Emily

*"when DAZ decided that they had items that would "preview" at PC prices and then move into the store at "full price". PC members complained then that products were not supposed to move, but not very strongly."

Actually that's a bit inaccurate, originally the PC items were available in the store at a the regular price and then to PC members at a discount with a variety of new items added that were exclusive to PC.*

No, the real reason it's inaccurate is that people did gripe pretty strongly. I think they may have actually changed their minds because of it. Remember the Romeo and Juliet clothing for M3 and V3? That was supposed to premiere in the PC, then be removed from the PC after a month and be put in the regular store. In fact, if you look at the item page for "Romeo," it still says "Regular Price $24.95 after October 10th, 2003."

I don't think they ever did that, though. It's still in the PC, I assume because people complained so much. Have they ever actually moved stuff from the PC to regular store before now? I mean actually removing it from the PC, not just putting in the regular store, too, or removing it because it was PC by mistake.

In any case, I really don't like the way this is going. It's not so much the actual events as the overall trend. I wondered when they announced their "everyone's PC for free" promotion if the PC could really be financially viable for much longer, and I'm really wondering now.

Artists do get sick. We are not machines. Considering the sheer amount of high quality products she turned out, week after week after week, it is no wonder that she faltered in the traces. This treatment of her falls so neatly into their TRUE company values (how to milk everybody for as much money as possible), as opposed to their stated values of providing an excellent and well-rounded work environment. They could have simply given her a leave of absence until she got better, and let her products stand. By kicking her out of a club she helped establish, DAZ has shown once again just how little they regard the creators. Carolly

Attached Link: http://www.silverleifstudios.com/OfficialResponse/

Quote level 1...
"when DAZ decided that they had items that would "preview" at PC prices and then move into the store at "full price". PC members complained then that products were not supposed to move, but not very strongly."

Quote level 2...
Actually that's a bit inaccurate, originally the PC items were available in the store at a the regular price and then to PC members at a discount with a variety of new items added that were exclusive to PC.

Quote level 3...
No, the real reason it's inaccurate is that people did gripe pretty strongly.

Closest yet because you're right, DAZ DID introduce a "Premiere Preview" category to allow them to put NEW items in the PC for a limited time before marking them up in the main store at "full price". I wasn't aware that they'd dropped this, partly because I saw the level of complaints as being pretty tame. Things can get a LOT more heated than that!

Quote:
In any case, I really don't like the way this is going. It's not so much the actual events as the overall trend.

Yup, that's a major MAJPOR aspect for me. There are a slew of aspects surrounding this latest cockerel-up, not least of which is the fact that it's the LATEST one. It's becoming something of a blur of broken promises and insane behaviour from DAZ :(

People actually HAVE been complaining (some of them, notably not me for once IIRC!) that PC quality has dropped off in comparatively recent months - and this is depsite SS having been replaced "some time ago".

One of the main things that gets my goat is being fed BS. When it's perfectly easy to work out ways to overcome a situation it's insulting to be told there was no way to avoid that situation. Something being considered too costly isn't "no way" - it's "too costly". Different thing entirely.

They state that they treat employees and vendors/contractors with the same ethics. I sure hope none of their full-time staff fall ill either.

IIRC there is too much "managing of the problem/people" going on and not enough forthright honesty. I really believe that most people would react better to open honesty as company policy than attempts to rewrite history and adjust the facts to suit profitability.

And few if any of us care to be insulted as a group of fantasists who make up notional "DAZ promises" presumably in order to have something to gripe about.

Cheers,

Cliff Bowman

PS can anyone point me to some really good, MIMIC-compliant big cats? I'm talking non-DAZ lions and non-DAZ tigers here rather than overfed pussies

I think that in this situation DAZ have shown their true colors, and I for one do not want to be associated with a company who deals with people in such an underhand manner. God help us all if we get ill and our employers decide to sack us, and then to rub salt into the wounds, tell tall tales about the situation to everyone. I wish SS well in whatever she does in the future and that her ill health does not take her so close to the edge ever again. This customer will certainly be looking out for where her work appears in the future because the work she does is excellent and is inspiring for my creative processes. Catlin

Merrilyn I'm sorry to hear about your health, I had no clue that was going on and why there were no new products at the time from you. Thanks for the long read, it cleared up a lot for me as well. I wish you the best with your health, family and continued success. I've enjoyed a lot of your products and hopefully will be able to in the future.

Dan Farr has given a few responses in the PC forum thread - soothing tones with a "trust me, DAZ aren't bad people" theme, and the thread has now been locked. Well, that should prevent the peasants from revolting! The only thing I couldn't really "understand" in the thread was those members who stated almost outright that they don't care how staff are treated so long as they can buy cheap products. REALLY reminded me of the sweat-shop situations, where child labour produces product that is sold for a years salary or more. I may be "odd" in having some concern for those that do the work so many of us benefit from - but if so I celebrate my oddness! SS - good luck at Poser Pros and/or wherever you go, whatever you do. Judging by what I see of DAZ this weekend, you've made the right choice to move on completely. Cheers, Cliff

SS didn't do anything for Daz for almost a year- that's why most of the stuff being removed is V2/M2 stuff. SS requested that her PC items be removed. Daz wanted them to stay. Daz & SS had come to an agreement where she would do Premiere stuff. We don't know every side of this story. What I saw? SS disappears for about a year. Reappears, states that the Toy Dog is coming to Daz. It's released to Daz only to be yanked by SS and put at Poserpros. Then SS & Daz made some sort of agreement and her PC stuff was supposed to stay at Daz for 2 weeks. But now she intends to yank it Monday and sell it at Poserpros! Daz has lowered prices. They do have their money-back guarantees (which I've taken advantage of after certain sales happened so I could get the lower prices) and I have been able to reach Daz folks on he phone if I had any questions. They also release quality products at regular intervals at reasonable prices. I am happy with my PC membership. It seems to me that Daz is short-handed. They've always been a 'store', a 'business'. Their forums are new, even "beta". They've just barely dabbled their toe in the "community". They need editors, weekend staff, and more costumer service folks. They need to deal with growing pains and actually having community forums. The future is still being written. ;)

Caly/Calypso I fully intended to say nothing more reguarding this issue but since you have brought this issue up and decided to harp on it in every possible thread I will address you specifically reguarding the Toy Dog. I did infact contact DAZ and the dog was accepted prior to posting the "release" of the Toy Dog at DAZ. They even offered to purchase it which I declined. So I did start the coming soon to DAZ thread. Prior to knowing the actual release schedule. To this point I had been under the impression that once accepted a product could go into the store in less than a week. I was then informed of how long it would be before the release would take place, 3 weeks minimum, which I would not settle for due to Christmas coming. I did at the time that I found this out tell the DAZ reps I was speaking to that I would ask Poser Pros how long it would take to get the dog up there. Poser Pros made a much better offer, 3 Days and alot of support products. So the Poser Pros won that bid. The Dresses which were uploaded at the same time still went to DAZ as thier release was not one that I was worried about dates on. Poser Pros did not come to me asking for the dog, I went to them asking for a possible release date. Please dont try to turn this into a conspiracy theory.

Please dont try to turn this into a conspiracy theory. rofl Thanks, I needed that. Mondays ought to be banned. Seriously, in light of all of the threads that have gone on in these forums and elsewhere, you have to see the humor in that sentence. :)

indeed I do and no hard feelings just wanted to clear that up :)

:)

randym77, Silverleif is the one who made the Frenz hair. The hair you posted links to free variations of in a Daz thread about her Frenz hair. Not sure if you have made that connection yet.