Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=1740155&Form.sess_id=8739237&Fo

The concept again, for those who may be unfamiliar with the original thread, was a National Geographic Explorer / Dr. Joseph Ballard expedition in your fish tank. The challenge was trying to sell the transition from cheap plastic plants and fluorescent aquarium lighting in the foreground to a sea wall drop-off complete with thermo cline in the space of about eighteen virtual inches. And jumping forward to the present Ive sure learned a thing or three during the time spent flogging this. Thanks all around for all the helpful suggestions. If I were to do it all over again Id definitely start more fish-tanky and work from there, but as it is Im pretty tied to the terrain/camera orientation (not to mention the terrain editor and I arent on the best of terms) so these are the re-works. The lighting actually ended up as complicated, if not more so, but this time it was a considered application instead of a recursive cycle of adding things to fix problems that created the need for more fixes, etc. I also added bump maps for all the fish, retextured the sub, pushed the fog around to remove it from that awkward overlap with the spotlight, made the guppy and neons smaller, and pulled the discus back for better composition and to have it appear bigger. I think I changed the size of the goldfish and moved the angel too in there somewhere. The first image is the original - the second is the close replacement (shown at 10% of normal AA cuz its still running), and the third pulls back and widens out, moves and resizes the angel, adds a second bunch of neons, another plant, and replaces that persnicity RH foreground plant. So, is there anything worth keeping/re-posting - or was this just another journey of discovery? I had to compress the snot out of these to get them up here, I hope it doesnt mess them up too much.

The original post

The close replacement (shown in the process of a normal AA run at 10% completion)

The more extensive re-work

I still think this image's biggest flaw is the positioning of the fish. They don't achieve anything the way they are now other than looking tacky.

I think maybe some filter use to show underwater effects is in order. Darken a bit so lightsource isnt so prominent in front.

It's a great idea for a pic, & I think you've done an excellent job. I bet it was far from easy. I agree that the fish might be repositioned, possibly the goldfish, as I don't think it's showing its best angle... What about a cheesy little plastic treasure chest or sunken ship in the foreground, just to make the point about it being an aquarium, or one of those aquarium aeriators with bubbles coming out of it? I think it's definitely worth re-posting if you decide to do more work on it.

Ok, I can't give much technical advice about the lighting and such really. However, I can make some suggestions. Goldfish are fond of picking up gravel, chewing on it for food particles and spitting it out again (trust me...I've had the critters!). So, they tend to stand on their heads a lot. Maybe you could reposition the goldfish so we see more of his side, but have him angled down so he's gravel dipping. That might help with the tank bottom illusion and would remove a bit of fish from the image some. Also, have you considered having the angel partially out of the picture also. More or less same angle, just cropped by the picture edge. That would also reduce fish parts and open tank space but without actually removing any fish. The only thing, on a fish basis, that's technically "wrong" with this is that goldfish are cold water fish, preferring upper 60s to lower 70s temps, while the others, especially the discus, like high 70s. It's not a good idea to mix goldfish altho it's done all the time. Discus and angels both tend to be a bit shy so you could also probably get away with having them look like they're running from the sub. Goldfish are exactly the opposite...mine would be trying to eat the sub probably! :o) All in all, other than the rather solid line of light from the spotlight on the terrain, I think this looks excellent. For me, most everything is aesthetic now.

Oh well, journey of discovery it its then! Perhaps going from fish tank fluorescent to sea in the space of 18 inches was an overly challenging lighting concept to achieve within the limits of the program, with the image limited further by the initial terrain/environment choice seeming too much like an aquatic environment instead of going the more conventional fish-tanky route. I took the time to try everything suggested in the original thread, and I got to play with parallel light cubes and a lot more light lab settings so it wasn't a total waste. Thanks for you time and input!

I think it's better... but it could use a bit more postwork in photoshop :) drac

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=645164&Start=1&Artist=ddruckenmiller&ByArtist=Yes

There are still some compormises, but there is a significant improvement over the original.

Attached Link: http://website.lineone.net/~netscribes/plants.sit

I think the biggest points of fall down at this point are 1) the spot looks unrealistic 2) the background somhow doesn't look right to me. Suggested improvements:- 1) if the spot settings are still as shown in the previous thread, I would, back off the edge softness and soft shadows, this is greying out the whole thing and messing with the gradient. Up the brightness, and then change the start tone of the gradient to get the colour you want in the volume. What is going on with the procedural gel? it doesn't appear to be having much effect. 2) get rid of the fog and haze and put in place several volumetric slabs, play with textures to give more depth. 3) as stated elsewhere, play with the foreground plants, If you want some aquarium plant freebies there are some of mine at the attached link with texture maps. (You will need stuffit for PC (free) or similar to unpack them) 4) consider lightly overlaying/adding a living room image in the diffuse or ambient channel of the submarine glass as though it's foreground is picking up the fishtank, but the background is still deep ocean

Should have said for cure 2) above, make the volume slab layer behind each other, away from the camera.