The Vue gallery looking more and more like a Poser gallery. I think when something is 80% Poser (just guessing a percentage), it should be in the Poser gallery. Just because an image is rendered in Vue shouldn't be the reason to post it in the Vue gallery in my opinion, that would be just ridiculous. I don't get it, people have all the space to post their Poser stuff in the Poser gallery, it's also the gallery where their work is more appreciated. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that we should be too strict when it comes to what is allowed in any specific gallery, but wouldn't it be advisable if one of the moderators sometimes makes the effort to contact a member and advice him/her in a friendly way to post this strongly related Poser image in the appropriate gallery. If I go to the Vue gallery, then I want to see Vue related images. These images can inspire and can be helpful and I'm a bit fed up to have to look for these images hiding between all the Poser stuff.

IMHO..the difference in the 2 galleries is very obvious. Poser gallery = 70% nudity(could be more)...Vue gallery 1% nudity. ;)...(probably less) I set up my people in Poser..then do my backgrounds etc in Vue. Vue does have the better renderer.

I tend to only put landscapes in the Vue gallery, but I must say that it is a bit disheartening when I've put of a lot of effort into making a custom background in Vue for a Poser based images as the background is nearly always overlooked in the Poser gallery

I'm curious, does this mean we're expected to post no people/animals, etc in the Vue Gallery? Or only items that come with Vue? What if we make our trees in X-Frog and it's a forest rendered in Vue, should that then be in the X-Frog gallery?

This is an age old problem. The Poser gallery could also complain about all those images rendered with Vue instead of Poser. That leaves the Mixed Medium category - which is not appropriate as the medium is still the same ... just different tools. As long as a picture has been redered in Vue, it is fine to put it in the Vue Gallery. Even after postwork.

By the way... if you reduce Vue images to scenes that : - only have primitives, plants and terrains (pure Vue) - do not have postwork (that would be cheating) - no imported object (too easy) - no alpha plane (photographs - not Vue) well... lets just say the gallery would not show the full spectrum of what Vue can do.

"As long as a picture has been redered in Vue, it is fine to put it in the Vue Gallery." Explain me why that is, because that really doesn't make sense to me Agiel. So that means that every Bryce scene, every Poser scene, complete C4D, 3DS Max, Lightwave, XSI, Strata or whatever modeled scenes can be thrown in the Vue gallery just because they were rendered in Vue? C'mon, has the Vue gallery degraded THAT much? You made this list; "- only have primitives, plants and terrains (pure Vue) - do not have postwork (that would be cheating) - no imported object (too easy) - no alpha plane (photographs - not Vue)" Sorry Agiel, but now you go off topic. The discussion was about Poser images. You're trying to avoid the discussion by bringing up a list that has nothing to do with my question. You know exactly what I mean by "Poser" images. Just look at the following images that are on the first page of the Vue gallery; "DRAWN FROM THE WATERS", "Princes", "Lady on Bridge", "Don't give me that look" That's what I mean with "Poser" images. I also wrote "that we shouldn't be too strict". Of course there will be some Poser related stuff or something related to a different piece of software, but somewhere you need to draw the line. Having some control over the galleries takes more work, I fully understand that, but should that be the reason just not to take any control at all. What I would like to know Agiel, did you ever advice people to post in a different gallery or is it in the Vue gallery just freedom for all? Now look at the Terragen gallery. There are some exceptions in the Terragen gallery, but for the most parts it's a very "clean" gallery. If I want to look at Terragen images, then the Terragen gallery is a great place. And there are more galleries that are very focused on the program that is being used; Mojoworld, Cinema 4D, Rhino 3D, Lightwave, Carrara, etc. I guess I have to live with it for the moment, until I get more the hang of Cinema 4D, because I get the impression that Im talking to a wall here. Thanks for the replies everybody and Agiel, you're doing a great job here, it's just that I don't agree with your view on this subject, that's all.

As Agiel said, an age old discussion. And absolute no new aspect here. I think there is an easy way to change the gallery. PARTICIPATE. Be part of the community, post like crazy Vue only images and be an idol for us all. The best way of changing things. Right now i can't really see why i should follow the advice from someone that is not part of the "family". That comes here and the first statement (i see) is - "you are all doing wrong here". Looks a little that the tail is waging with the dog. We are happy with the images that are posted here - more or less. We all like some more, other less. But that does not mean that we demand that the images we dont like should not be shown here. Very simple thing. That Terragen is a from you called clean gallery has maybe to do that importing things into Terragen is very difficult. Very difficult. Not because there are better human beings there. Or a better moderator. BTW, why is the Import function a no-no? It is part of the program as all other functions too. Like using images for textures. Is that a no-no too? Must be! Because not Vue only! My way of handling things like that is simply not to look at images i don't like. Or not comment. Voting with the feet it was called in the old ages. Do the same. Simple and effective! Walther

What, in your opinion, makes a Vue picture? Are those pictures with heavy postwork still Vue pictures? In my opinion if it was rendered in Vue, it's a Vue picture, regardless of the source of the content, because it has been composed, lit and rendered in Vue. Simply as that.

Wabe, you write things I never said. I appreciate that you make comments, but don't pull things out of their context. 1. I never wrote "you are all doing wrong here". That's totally out of context. I'm just asking why there are so many Poser images in the Vue gallery, is that the same like saying "you are all doing wrong here"? 2. You also said "BTW, why is the Import function a no-no?" I never said that either, again you pull things out of context. I clearly wrote in my first post (A) "Don't get me wrong, I don't think that we should be too strict when it comes to what is allowed in any specific gallery,..." and in my second post I wrote (B) "Of course there will be some Poser related stuff or something related to a different piece of software, but somewhere you need to draw the line". Tell me, does that sound like someone who thinks that everything should be pure Vue? 3. Then you write But that does not mean that we demand that the images we dont like should not be shown here. Very simple thing. Again, I never said that I didnt like the images, again you dont read what I wrote. Those images for example that I mentioned, theres nothing wrong with it, I do like them, I just think theyre not in the appropriate gallery, why is it so difficult to understand this. I like those Terragen images too, visit the forum quite often, but does that automatically mean that I love to see them in the Vue forum? If I want to buy a book about Cinema 4D, why would I like to read about Mojoworld on every page? 4. Then you write Like using images for textures. Is that a no-no too? Must be! Because not Vue only! Again, totally out of context, I never wrote anything like that and again, read what I wrote at (A) and (B). Youre telling me that Im just new. Does that automatically mean that; a) I havent been visiting this site for quite some time b) the whole gallery is just a reflection what was posted on one day You also take only Terragen as an example, when I mentioned 5 (!) other galleries and there are a lot more. Thats not fair either. The thread title is Vue gallery looking more and more like a Poser gallery and I clearly wrote in (A) and (B) that I have NOTHING against the fact that people post images that contains object coming from other software of if people adjust there Vue images with other programs. I havent been rude, but people started to make assumptions, pulled my text out of context and ignored my words on several occasions. I dont consider that a fair way of communicating and therefore I feel no need to continue the discussion about the initial topic. No hard feelings though.

The point to my list was to elaborate on what could be a 'pure' Vue image. I don't believe it was off topic as I was generalizing your idea about Poser images made in Vue. I know very well what you mean by "Poser Image" - it is unfortunate that it has become synonym with "low quality naked vicky in a temple with a sword". You can do that kind of thing in Carrara, or Bryce, or anything else really. Even with Povray if you try hard enough. The problem is that I don't know where to draw the line (who does ?). I believe that the rendering engine gives a lot of 'personality' to an image. Try rendering the exact same scene (1 poser character and a few lights) in Vue, Poser and Carrara and you will see what I mean. In each case, it is a poser character, but I guarantie you that one will be a Vue picture, the other will be a Carrara pictures and so on. It is not my place to move a picture from the gallery just because it doesn't match with my vision of what a Vue image should be (it is probably not the same as what your vision is, or someone else).

I guess I'm trying to understand what the problem is? Apparently, it's not that Poser figures are brought into Vue, because you indicate that it's not. Is it because Poser items are the focus of the image/render? "Don't give me that look" has four Poser items, but the WORLD itself is created in Vue. And a nice job the person did too. :-) Maybe if you could clarify what you mean, I might better understand your meaning.

It appears to me that this thread was erroneously posted in the wrong forum to begin with. If you have legitimate complaints for the administrators, there is a forum for that. There is a solution to looking through the images. Simply place the all Vue artists on your favorite artists list. You can then simply link only to their images without having to look through Poser laden ones.

Shari - that was not a complaint that administrators can do something about.... more of an observation that turned into a debate :)

this my opinion... for me the render engine determines the gallery. that's all. same scene rendered with Vue or 3d Studio can be place in vue gallery or 3d studio. bye.

I use Poser a lot in conjuction with Vue. As a matter of fact, that is one of the big plusses of Vue...that it works so well with Poser imports. And E-on advertises the fact and sells a lot of copies of their products because of it.

1. "I think when something is 80% Poser (just guessing a percentage), it should be in the Poser gallery." 80% Poser what? Poser meshes? Poser renders composited with Vue? Poser figures only? And why a particular threshold? Why 80%? Why not 10% or 30%?

2. "Just because an image is rendered in Vue shouldn't be the reason to post it in the Vue gallery in my opinion, that would be just ridiculous." So setting up the scene in Vue, with plants, objects, terrains, textures, atmosphere and lighting doesn't count?

3. "If I go to the Vue gallery, then I want to see Vue related images." Vue-related images are what are in the Vue gallery. If you're not interested in images with Poser meshes in them, you can usually tell by the thumbnail, so don't click on the thumbnail. If you want only landscapes, or other genres, you can sort the gallery by genre.

4. "Of course there will be some Poser related stuff or something related to a different piece of software, but somewhere you need to draw the line." Um...why? Why does agiel need to draw the line? If the site owners don't have an issue with the way the galleries are run here why should anyone else? If the images are within the Renderosity TOS (Terms of Service), why does anyone "need to draw the line"?

While I use Poser objects (both figures and other meshes) in my Vue images, I do scene setup, terrains, texturing, lighting, atmosphere, and rendering in Vue. Whether I'm using one Poser mesh or 10. To me, this means it is a Vue image and I will post it in the Vue gallery. The occasional image I render in Poser goes...guess where? The Poser gallery. Same with Bryce/Terragen/Mojoworld. I also do a lot of texture tweaking in PhotoShop or PSP before applying the texture to the objects in Vue...should I post an image where I do that in Photoshop/PSP/mixed medium gallery? If you're going to insist on strictly stipulating what percentage of what types of mesh can be in a Vue image, what about the inherent limitations of modeling objects in Vue? While I understand what you are trying to say, SpringBirdy, I have to disagree with you.

As has already been pointed out here, we have been through all of this before. Poser and Vue go hand in hand and always will, the reason? Because Vue scenes look better, and feel more realistic when they have Poser characters in them.. But when does a picture start crossing the line between them? Who knows.. I use 3D Studio to create models for my scenes, and I 'have' used Poser also to add characters, but my scenes are never heavily influenced by either program, predominantly it is Vue that you see when you look at my work, and heres a good example: In my gallery the heaviest use of other programs is in 'My Venice'. Everything here is modelled in 3d Studio max (with the obvious exception of the trees) what you are looking at is 90% actually 'created' with max, but does that make it a 3D studio pic? No.. and here's why. I have 'composed' the image and the models within Vue. I have textured every object within Vue (over 200 of them and thats no quick feat I can tell you) I have lit the scene with several lights, changing bumpmaps, textures etc to get the feel and look I wanted. And I have rendered the scene in Vue (this adds a severe amount of weight to it being a Vue picture in my opinion) Then I did postwork in Photoshop, quite a bit actually... So, its a mish mash of 3 programs now, but the main reason I posted it in the Vue gallery is because 'most' of what you see is done with Vue. The textures alone (which lets be honest are one of the most important success or failure processes in creating the kind of work showcased here on Renderosity) are entirely done with Vue. Now, I realise that you are not talking about 3DStudio, and your original issue was with Poser, I am simply using 3d Studio as an example of how much other programs can be used in conjunction with Vue to create art. Its the only program I use a lot in my scenes as I am not a heavy Poser user and I dont want to start pulling other peoples work apart to get my point across. A point that we as Vue users, have had to defend time and time again. The bottom line as I see it is simply... If the majority of the creation process is done in Vue, then its a view pic. Kutter.

'Vue' Pic even :) Kutter

Ok... time to close this subject. Again, what SpringBirdy meant was not a rant against using Poser in Vue images (I fell for that interpretation but I can see his point now). What I believe the post was about was the increasing number of images that look more like a showcase of poser than vue. Not mentionning images of 'vicky in a temple with a sword'... While I personally consider these images Vue images, it is understandable that they can be seen differently. In the end, what matters is to have fun doing a picture you like with Vue. [if anyone wants to reply to this discussion, IM me or just start a fresh new thread :)]