Just wondering if anyone is using the Athlon 64 and XP Pro with Poser Pro-Pack or P5. Does it speed things up? Any software problems?

Poser's only as fast as your computer runs. Sad, but true. Doesn't use the graphics processor on video cards at all. Which is something that definitely needs improvement. FYI: I use the Athlon XP 1400 with XP Pro and Poser 5. After installing the Athlon, I noticed Poser running faster than before. So speed of processor is good. NO problems with more speed that I've seen, but mine wasn't that much. From 800 to 1400 (technically 1600) isn't that big of a jump.

Problem... what problem?

i have amd64 3200+ but with vanilla XP.. its just fine :) also have 1gig ram Where I see the real difference is in how much stuff I can have in my scene without bogging down to a crawl...the rendering is for sure a lot faster.

A CompUSA system builder I know has pretty much convinced me to switch from my long-time Intel Pentium platforms (800Mhz P-III's -motherboard limited to only 512 MB Ram) to the latest Athlon 64 and XPPro with 1.5-2 GB RAM and SATA drives. I am primarily a huge Photoshop "post-processing" type of guy and the new Photoshop CS really kicks major butt even on my current P-III's, -I like running filters on 64MB files and many work extremely well now, but some of my more exotic ones still are RAM limited. The CompUSA guy says I will flip-out when I use Photoshop CS on an Athlon 64 with a SATA drive and at least 1.5 GB RAM. So if Poser can handle it and not flip-out (and VUE 4 and DAZ Studio Beta can handle it) then I'm ready to make the jump... He also says the latest XP Pro set-up is better than my current Win2000 Pro (and that a number of new motherboards no longer even support Win2000- only XP).

Veritas777; Just to get the negative out of the way, your buddy is full of it in regards to the 'number' of boards out there not supporting Win2k; none of the commercially available ones I've seen are like that. The =only= OS specific issue I've heard about is that the newest chipset that Intel is working on will not support the 9x line...as in they are not going to write drivers for 98-Me. Now, there supplier may not -supply them- with Win2k drivers, but check at Newegg; just hunt and check the specs across the new boards. Most of them still support 98... There is still far too large and installation base of Win2k users for -any- hardware vendor to ignore. Always remember that CompUSA is trying to sell you a preinstalled OS... That being said, he -is- right about the sweetness of the Atnlon 64 and SATA (current system is an Athlon 64 3000+ (the fastest one with 12 meg of L2 cache; the 3200+ and up have a 1 meg L2...and I haven't had any problems with the smaller cache yet). And you have a very nice chance to get a system that will give you lots of toys. My current board is a Gigabyte K8VNXP, and it came with 2 SATA channels, a 4 drive RAID configurable PATA connector set, and the standard 4 drive PATA that every mobo has (yes, that is a total of up to 10 drives with no add on card). And all of them are USB 2.0, most have AC97 integrated sound to turn off, and lots of other goodies like firewire. Running P4PP and P5 on this beast (with 1.5 gigs of DDR 400 Kingston ValueRam), I've had no issues at all with the memory controller being on the CPU. I have Vue and Premiere set up on the SATA drive I've installed ( running 4 PATA drives and 1 SATA, and waiting for an excuse to get #6), and the loading is noticeably smoother. It can be faster, but if you have Ultra 133 drives already, you won't really notice it, as SATA 1.0 only comes out to about a Ultra 150. But due to the serial nature of the buffer structure, you get a 'smoother' access behavior (the pauses you get in HDD access when you are pushing bytes hard are almost non existant with the SATA drives. The rate varies, but doesn't stutter). Hell, P5 even got along with the XP-64 beta I had on the system for a few weeks (had to take it off; there were no drivers for the RAID controller, and I was tired of not having my drives working; if Gigabyte ever gets some beta drives out for their RAID chip, I'll be trying it again). Vue4, VuePro, Truespace 5 all work smoothly with an Athlon 64. As well as Bryce 5, The Shade 7 demo, Mimic 2 pro, PSP 8, Photoshop LE, Premiere 6.0, Magix Audio Studio 7 and Video Studio 2. And Visual C++ 6. Haven't gotten around to messing with the Cinema4D CE6 yet.... How's that for a list of 'no troubles for me'....?

Thanks Dale_B and others above for their imput. Especially glad to hear that it works fine with ATA 133 drives as I just purchased 6 Maxtor 200GB drives at $129 each from CompUSA and hoped that I could use a couple in a RAID configuration on a new 64 bit processor with a SATA C drive. Want to use XPPro so I can network with my other machines which still perform well for other less demanding tasks. BTW- what about CompUSA selling me a pre-installed XP PRO, is that something I shouldn't do? Buy an upgrade instead?

=IF= you get the actual OS installation disk, then the only issue is how much are they charging you to install it for you? Some of the CompUSA models are like Compaq and HP; they install the OS on a hidden partition, and all you get is a 'recovery disk', which is no more than a boot starter and driver compilation. In the latter case, if your HDD goes Tango Uniform, then you have to go back to the builder and pay whatever it costs to get another OS set up done, as the recovery disk has nothing to recover -with-. My personal preference is to hit a computer show and shop around; I picked up my copy of Win2k Pro for $99, still in the sealed OEM packet. You can get XP Pro for around $149 (you might have to purchase 'hardware'....like a dollar's worth of screws or something similar). But then I'm a builder, and want the OS install handy if something goes wrong. It's a trade off between doing it yourself and investing the time, or investing the money in someone else doing it for you.

And installation of Windows XP (Home or Pro) is about as easy as Windows has been to install. Takes a little less than an hour on my machine, and requires very little input from you when it gets going. No reason to pay someone else to do it, unless you're paying me. ^_^ I'll do it for ya for $15. That's my stated price. ;) Any offers?

I understand the 3700+ should be here by June...but it's sad they don't offer the FX53 in a notebook. I think they need to drop the reg memory for the dual channel controller. We never buy Intel but I might be tempted to get a dual core Pentium if it's twice as fast as a single core cpu... but I doubt it.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12452&Form.ShowMessage=1780387

i have an athlon 64 3400 with windows xp pro. i did have problems with crashes but recently had to returm my computer to have the motherboard changed from an MSI to an ABIT MOTHERBOARD.i do not know whether this will solve the problems i had with Poser or not (i just got the PC back yesterday )when it was working right my renders were super fast ,what took 13 minutes on my old pc took 78 seconds on the new one.if you are considering an athlon 64 ,i would suggest asking the company how much testing has been done on the processer with the particular motherboard they are offering. i hope my problems are over.

Thanks- good point to consider. Since I have previously been all Intel, I've used Intel motherboards with Intel chips. With AMD 64 is sounds a bit more tricky- so I am listening to what you folks are saying and also reading all the AMD 64 website reviews and test suites I can find to see what others are using.

What you'll find is most use either the VIA K8T800 or 880 northbridge, with the current hottest southbridge VIA makes (they commonized the connections about 2 years ago, so that they only had to swap out one of the bridge chips, usually the northbridge due to the memory controller living there), or the NVIDIA Nforce 3 chipset. Definitely check into reports of problems. The Hammer core does pull the power, and if the mobo maker skimped on the regulator components, then you will have trouble. And jameshunter97? I -think- I remember reading about an errata with some of the first MSI Athlon64 boards out there. A couple of the vendors had them, and there supposedly was a massive recall, but warnings went out that all the boards hadn't come back in, and to use vendors with good RMA records.... The ABit board has a good rep so far...

thank you for the info. i have tested Poser a little today with the new Abit motherboard and using Jim Burton's test render i am no longer at 78 seconds but at 1 minute 50 seconds.while my machine seems to be a little less fast ,i do not seem to be having the problems with Poser 5 that i previously had.to anyone considering an Athlon 64 ,i have to add this. i did research for monthes ,and read up on every component to be installed in my new PC.I spent $2,500 on just the tower ,buying it from Velocity Micro ,and they have a great reputation ,(they are also only 30 minutes from my home ,which i thank god for now)BUT ,they use another company to handle their service calls and no one at that place knew of the problems with the MSI motherboards. one guy even suggested that my 2 RAPTOR harddrives were "delicate". finally calling Velocity directly they immediatly told me of the motherboard problem.THEY COULD NOT PASS THIS INFO ON TO THE COMPANY HANDLING THEIR SERVICE CALLS? I have had my new PC for 2 months and i am re-installing all my programs for the 4TH time.having to do it all over again ,i am not sure i would have gone with this very new ,high end equipment. i have spent more time trying to get this thing running ,then actually getting to use Poser.

Having had previous "Bleeding Edge" experiences with computer hardware and software over the years- is one big reason why I decided to wait until the 64 systems and software appeared to be out long enough that software, hardware and systems experience could get a grip on it. I think we are pretty much at that stage now, but will be certain that the CompUSA guy who builds my machine (just the basic stuff, I can add the rest) will stand behind it. They have been really good to me in the past and they have a major regional facility only minutes away from where I live. Plus the guy has already built quite a few for businesses and the government so seems to have a handle on what works well. Also- he's giving me full flexibility on how it will be built- it's not a pre-installed OS Box solution. Also the prices he is quoting me are quite a bit lower than what I've heard other people paying as well. This is because obviously CompUSA has huge volume access to lots of this stuff now (as I mentioned earlier, I picked up Maxtor 200GB drives-7800 RPM, 8MB Cache- for just $129 from them). Not pushing CompUSA for everyone- I just think I happen to be in a good place where the store does huge volume and has significant technical resources in-house. I wouldn't want to do something like this over the phone. I like face to face, eyeball to eyeball contact and try to ask enough good questions to feel like I'm getting honest answers from him. Also- while I'm getting a low ball-park price from him, I plan to use the best RAM and components available, not what is the cheapest price. I'm willing to spend more if I'm getting reliability and stability in a system.

We are running A64 on Asus K8T800 Delux (in turbo mode), Gainward 256MB DDR AGP 8X, 1 GB DDR 400 (512 x 2), XP Pro, Maxtor 250GB HD x 2, Poser 5 SR 4.1... still, no problems. I doubt Daz would ship D|S for A64 until Intel comes out with their version. On an older Athlon XP, we noticed Poser 5 runs faster on 1GB compared to 512MB. When we increase the ram to 1.5GB (512MB x 3), the speed did not increase. In fact, it slowed down just a tad. In the test, P5 used as much as 99.5% of the physical RAM (using Norton system work utility) during very large renders. Of course XP base programs were also using the ram at that time. P5 did not crash even at the maximum render resolution. It's sad though... PC are way faster than they were back in the day. Infact, what we really have now is a ultra fast supercomputer. But add a dozen V3 figures in a scene and watch it crawl like a baby. And if you want to see time stand still, try that with D|S.

Well, if DAZ doesn't go to 64 bit and the people who own Curious Labs actually took Poser 5 code and recompiled it into a Poser 64 release that would certainly bring some real excitement back into Poserdom. To me it would be the all time smartest thing they could ever do to create a real "leading edge" image for Poser. Obviously they could still maintain a Poser 32 bit version as well for 3-5 more years until that end of the market fades out.

I doubt CL is looking into A64. A few years ago a CL tech told us that there was something with AMDs... people been buying them because they were cheap but a lot of people were complaining about problems with AMD & Poser. He strongly recommend us going with Intel. But as with P5, most of its problem was related to bad codes and bugs and hence, several service releases. As a programmer, I would have broken down P5 into several apps... such as a Render Studio, Poser Room, Face Salon, Clothes Factory and so on. That way, one bug won't affect other parts of the application. Adding 64bit extension would be cheaper, easier and faster than rewriting the entire application. I don't think CL can commit to such a task at this time.... it's just a feeling. A lot of people in high places don't give AMD credit and it's kind of shuned (as in Dell) but if we look at the history of Gateway computers.... A few years back when people were buying lots of PCs, Dell got a huge surplus. However, there wasn't much left for the likes of Gateway.... who said "Never Again" and added AMD to its roster big time (just in case). Later on, Gateway wanted to cut cost and make a profit and dropped AMD totally (it's always cheaper to build one motherboard than two). With AMD gone, Gateway still didn't fair any better and decided to buy a smaller PC company that was making a lot more money than they were doing. Envy? This company is called eMachine who by the way, bet on AMD and was doing surpisingly well with their premiere Athlon64 machines! In fact, a few weeks ago I asked emachine about a A64 3200+ laptop and why we couldn't get their latest model. The company replied that they realize their products are in high demand when they just can't keep them in stock.

Agree totally on the way Poser should have been structured. This is exactly the lesson DAZ should be learning- that by making DAZ Studio modularized they can offer different parts to different people. I for one would dearly LOVE a totally kick-ass 64 bit renderer because I'm a Photoshop hifg-rez still image maker. I have no use for animation, except as website eye-candy. But obviously for others, animation and post work in software like Premiere is the most important thing, etc. If DAZ Studio tries to be an all-in-one Swiss Army Knife they will never make everybody happy. From what I've read, AMD got lots of bad press when their 32 bit processors generated lots of excess heat, and Intel as well put big pressure on Dell, etc to try an inforce a "no buy AMD" policy. But like you said, eMachines and others like Alienware are selling tons of Athlon 64 series machines (which also run much cooler than the 32 bit chips do) and people like Dell and others in the Intel camp are reportedly getting really nervous about the rapid inroads AMD is making among the influential gamer-power-user community. These are trendsetters and reports of good Athlon 64 experiences are affecting lots of new buyers- including people like me. I'm ready to switch from Intel to AMD- something I would never have considered 6 months ago.

Heh. Look at all the Opteron sales to big tin companies like Cray; they sold more of them than Intel sold of the Itanium in the previous 2 years. HP is selling Opteron blade servers, and apparently cleaning up at it. Those who are waiting for Intel to swoop in with a 64 bit X86-64 solution are likely going to be waiting for another year. The Poser/AMD-Athlon problems weren't with the chip, but the chipset. That was the point where SIS and VIA had to stop cloning Intel functionality and design silicon for the divergent path AMD took, and it took them a few design cycles to get it right. Then there was the infamous capacitor farm issue, which had -nothing- to do with the silicon, and programs like Poser, which pushes the CPU to really suck on the power rails, were the unlucky sods that highlighted the power issues. I would be surprised if there weren't some quiet investigation going on behind the scenes. The added processor power and memory bandwidth would be a godsend to -any- rendering application.

Well, right now AMD is a leader because Intel is using AMD 64 instruction set (and hence Win64 will run on both A64 and P64). So while Dell and others might not want to embrace or sell AMD A64s, they will just have to sell them anyway under the Intel brand name. As Intel and AMD move to 64bits, I'm sure D|S and Poser will follow or get left in the dust. As for AMD, believe it or not, now's a good time to start working on A128-64-32. Why? Well, by the time they get around to it (seeing that it might take years to develope), there might be a Windows128 OS ready. All you really need are 128bit extensions to crunch, move or manipulate data faster. It's not a far fetch idea... the Playstation 2 uses a 128bit CPU if I'm not mistaken.

System XP-Pro (OEM) with SR-1 installed (getting all CD's for all installed software) WD Raptor 10,000 RPM 72 SATA C Drive 1.5 GB RAM Athlon 64 3200 (They did not have 3400 in stock) nVidia 256MB Card (Retail) 600 Watt Power Supply (Rad-Mad Dog- something like that) Metal Gamer-Tower Case with tons of connections, slots, etc. (Another "name" but don't remember it- but no fancy lights or picture windows) Recommended Board: MSI KTANeo? (not sure of model) 3 year on-site Compusa all-aparts and labor APC 800Watt UPS I will be adding two Maxtor 200GB in a RAID configuration later- does the MSI board support this? Have heard you guys saying not nice things about the MSI boards- Are ABIT or Gigabite boards better choices? Have never over-clocked, and don't plan to- but what are the risks in doing so on the system? I'm not a gamer- I just want continuous stable and dependable RAW POWER!

Overclocking is definitely =not= something you want to think about with a new system and bleeding edge hardware. And really, OC'ing has become the stock car modding of the decade. The systems are so powerful now that there really isn't a need to do it. That said, you -can- tweak things on nearly all the motherboards these days through the BIOS, including CPU voltage settings. But I would recommend reading at the OC websites, then finding an old box you won't mind smoking, and experimenting on that first. About the only motherboard maker I know of that -hasn't- had a run of stinkers at one time or the other is Tyan; they built their business on server and workstation quality boards. You pay for it, and they aren't particularly OC friendly, but they work as advertised and are stable. MSI has been one of the better boards in the past; both it and Abit seem to take turns having a bad design run at a release. With the Athlon XP, it was Abit's turn (due to the capacitor farm issue). I haven't really heard one way or the other how the MSI boards are faring. As for the system specs, the only thing you -might- consider is getting a XP64-3000+. That version only has 512k of L2 cache, as opposed to the 1 meg of the 3200+ and above...but the 3000+ has turned in performance numbers almost identical to the 3200+, and is about half to 23rds the price, depending on where you get it. Other than that, I'd say you have a killer on your hands. If you want to play about with the XP-64 beta, make sure they partition your boot drive into mulitple partitions...or if they want an arm and a leg, do it yourself. A nice little 5 gig partition is large enough for the OS and swap file. Still =LOTS= of drivers yet to be written, though...

Thanks Dale for your always excellent systems analysis. CompUSA will build my system for $100. They also suggested the exact same thing reguarding how to test the 64 bit OS if I wanted to and also said "don't over-clock", it voids the warranty. So- since what I'm really trying to do is have a serious image processing system and not out for hot-rodding kicks- I think I'll skip any experiments with Windows 64 and over-clocking and just stick with exactly what they put together for me. That way- if the Motherboard causes me problems- which seems like the most likely potential cause for any problems- I can go back and have it swapped out at no charge for something else under full warranty. Well, I'm psyched up and ready to rock-n-roll- credit card in my hot little hands ready to take the Athlon 64 plunge!

Have also considering ASUS motherboards since Alienware uses them. They sound pretty solid. Also may spring for a RAID dual WD Raptor 72GB setup as I read that it creates 50% faster drive performance over the "basic" 10,000 RPM performance.

Hmmm.... You might want to compare with the Maxtor SATA drives. The Raptors do have the 10krpm motors, but I haven't seen anything on heat dissipation and durability. The MAX drives are slower regarding spindle rpm, but you could easily get a 250 gig SATA drive for what a Raptor costs (if memory serves, anyway). And check the warranty on the drive, whatever you do. They have gotten real strange lately....

Attached Link: http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/raptor-wd740gd/index.x?pg=1