ok I have noticed over the year or so I have been here that the gallery is really biased.. By biased I mean, I have seen people here pushing the boundries of what vue can do and yet no one comments on there work. In return I see people throw a few objects from the free section and slap a atmosphere on it and get 30 comments.. It just doesnt make sense to me.. Is simplicity the key to getting comments? Or is it people just comment on the other people they talk to? I just dont get this community, we should all be pushing vue to its limits, and learning from one and another. I dont know just a rant I guess..

LOL! Its JMO, but while our tools and accoutrements have changed, human nature is still what it was, and will always be, foreseeably. If a sense of obligation develops among gallery habituees, it doesn't seem harmful; any comment can strike a spark off the anvil of reality - and sparks often cause the fire we need.

When something 'pushes the limit,' asking how it was done not only brings the chance to learn, but is a seed that might bring more comment.

Message edited on: 06/05/2004 11:07

Comments in the gallery have always been a funny thing. It is a mix of : - the time of the day a picture is posted, - how popular an artist is, - how many people have 'bookmarked' that artist, - how active the artist is in the forums - the choice of thumbnail - the theme of the picture - and sometimes, the phase of the moon and direction of the wind This is to say you will be disappointed if you post images only for the number or quality of comments you get. Comments, hits and votes are nice but in the end, you have to ask yourself why you are posting your own images anyway. Is it for sharing your experience ? showcasing your own work ? getting comments ? Many people are just content using Vue within its limits. Why not. It is not an obligation to push the limits or what Vue can do... just as it is not an obligation to avoid alpha planes, or postwork, or imported objects from Poser.

I think it's also a matter of "give-and-take". Many folks are more likely to comment on images posted by people who comment on others' stuff. There is no obligation to comment on anyone's image, of course, and some people have a lot less online time to post and/or comment than others do. I know I'm more likely to check out images by people who I see commenting on the work of others.

my bad english does not help me to express with clarity which I would want to say. but I try ... Agiel has written a directory much precise, I believes that the activity in the community is rewarded also with the popolarity. I am not astonished of the 30 or 40 comments that in average some aritsti make, often these artists have made a lot for the community, same I try to supply how much i can at the community and honestly many friends leave a sign on my jobs, also to those of inferior quality. More it is itself active, more has acknowledged.

I noticed most of the vue gallery is 2004 with a lot of images posted on the same day. It seems contrived as is most of this forum.

bonnyclump - If you look at the top of the page in the gallery, you will see that the gallery shows by default images for the past 15 days. There is just too many images posted every day to allow showing everything while retaining good performance. Sorry you feel that way about the forum, I am not sure what I can do to imrpove that.

Sure - I'd like more comments on my work too - preferably ones that will teach me something I may be able to do better or differently... ...but to expect perfect strangers to single out my work and critique it? hahahaha - not about to happen... I think I've posted a sum total of 3 or 4 images here - quite frankly I feel that most of my work isn't of the same calibre as the amazing stuff on offer here - and I'm more inclined to be intimidated by that fact and not post my work... I could care less about ratings or comments - I look at the view count - I'm just happy that someone is looking at my stuff...lol! As for the forums appearing to be a bit cliquey - you get that everywhere - so what makes this place any different? If you want to fit in - be active - be supportive - be communicative... let your personality dazzle - so that people will be unable to ignore you...lol! If you are just looking for a place where people will tell you how fantastic you are - well - you'll be a long time waiting for that to happen... anywhere on the web! T.

again not saying me, im speaking in general.. I post here cause I love vue, and so does everyone else here.. I have found no better.. its a generalization, not a cry for my gallery to get comments.. My images are made for me and anyone else who cares to look.. Yes I dont do many outdoor scenes or plants and water scenes.. Cause I want to see what Vue can actually do versus what I know it can do.. Others here try the same.. Yet recognition goes to the simplist of images which tends to turn away the artists who will pave the way for everyones future images.. Imagine if the one person finally finds out how to do a hdri inside Vue, the community would go nuts, no imagine that artist also thinking his hard work is going unseen and decides just to keep it to themself.. Thats would be a shame. And thats the point im trying to make, we all as artists look at others work, it only takes 20 secs to comment, I myself should heed my own words and comment more myself. How many times did you see a image and think "thats amazing" and then move on to the next image.. Why not leave a comment good or bad.. Artists truely cant develop if they dont have responses to there work..

agiel's first post is very intelligent and accurate. As long as your content with what your making, I don't see a reason for comments as far as art goes. Just think if you had vue but no internet connection. Would you still have the same images? yes. you have to love your own work before others will.

Comments are good encouragement and I'm wondering who put above the comment box "Your helpful comments for improving this image:" Shouldn't that only be with images in the W.I.P category?

Actually it seems that the images you strive and work really hard on get less comments that the ones that take no time. I don't really understand that but it happens to others too.

ibanezcollector, you enjoy making the sorts of images that you like...others enjoy making landscapes or character studies or abstracts or sunsets. We all have different reasons for using Vue or Vue Pro, and like making different types of scenes with it. I dare say most of the people posting images here aren't professional, but hobbyists like me who just want to have fun with the program; is there harm in that? I personally believe in participation, although it took a while before I was brave enough to post in a forum, or post an image. Actually, I think I was here more than a year before then! But I've found that the more I participate, in commenting on images among other things, the more feedback I've gotten. I will say that there are the occasional trolls or people with a chip on their shoulder who feel the need to be nasty or snide in their commenting, but that's their problem, not mine. And it's always easily recognized for what it is. As far as the forum or gallery being "contrived", bonnyclump, could you explain what you mean? I've been reading this forum for several years, and have made many friends here, as well as gotten an immense amount of help too. There are Terms of Service (referred to as ToS) that everyone agrees to when they join Rendero, but the discussion here has always seemed to be constructive and helpful for the most part.

It may well have to do with people commenting on the work of people they "know" to whatever extent. But there could also be the point of "being more likely to take the time to look at pictures I like" - which often means the ones the are in the direction my own work is, too, or perhaps where I'd like it to be. That would naturally lead to groups forming with different interests / tastes. And for me, it can also have to do with a difference between art and beauty that I feel. I love images that (to my eyes) are beautiful - no matter how much artistry there is in them. Perhaps I even admire a technically perfect scene without actually liking what it shows. But no matter how far someone has pushed Vue's limits and how much "art" his image is - if I don't like, I will not comment. Usually, I try to scan through the thumbs and if something catches my attention, I will look at it - regardless who created it. If I can think of something to say, I'll try to comment. But sometimes, I just can't think of a suitable statement - it's somehow pretty, but otherwise... don't know. Or with images getting dozens of "fantastic" and "superb" comments - who am I to make major negative comments? Possibly, I just didn't understand how wonderful this picture is? Personally, I'm grateful for comments on "how to improve that image". I may like that picture I made - and hopefully, I will still like it after reading the comments. But perhaps there really is something that could be better (also in my eyes) and I would have never discovered it on my own. I can be perfectly happy with just a couple of comments if they come from people who's own work I admire, for example. Or I discover the work of some people only because they left a comment and I get curious to check out their work.

For me persoanlly...I comment on what I like, don't care who the artist is....If I don't like a certain genre then I don't comment at all...it could be a great pic, but if I'm not "into" it it's not fair that I comment at all. IMHO I think the Vue gallery is less "cliquey" than the others here. I think this is one of the best forums here. I also don't post just to get the ooo's & ahhhh's, it's nice but NOT expected. I like getting critiques as well & have in the past rec'd very helpful info on things I've overlooked.

AGAIN IM SAYING THIS IN CAPS THIS ISNT ABOUT ME AND MY GALLERY IT WAS A GENERALIZATION... EVERYONE IS DIRECTING IT TOWARDS ME

Not me...just making a generalized observation and stating MO.

Nobody is attacking you, ibanezcollector, I certainly am not. Since you brought up the subject, I replied with my opinions, for what they're worth (not much in the scheme of things, I'm sure!).

Hey, why take this all so serious??? As agiel said: "- and sometimes, the phase of the moon and direction of the wind" (LOL thanks for the big laugh, Agiel, really needed one) Maybe i am the wrong person to say this .. but really the comments are depending on so many reasons and not only on the image itself. So why take it so serious. We should take this easy .. there are so many more real probelems on earth. Just enjoy the making of the image and if they like it enjoy it even more. That's all :) Myself i am often too tired after work for commenting, sorry for this. I am working all day on the computer and having a lot of troubles at the moment. To this my english is rather bad. And i have problems with criticize an image .. that's something i have to learn .. maybe i am not the only one :) Ok, this was my humble opinion to this :) Many kind greetings Margit

I'm also a regular at another site that has a gallery for members to post their works - they removed the ratings system due to some people getting narky if their images didn't get perfect scores all the time... I don't see the big deal about what types of images get comments or not - the fact that someone has been thoughtful enough to provide a free place for us to show off our work - and bears the financial burden for said free place - is great in my opinion... I hardly ever comment on other people's work here - I'm usually totally in awe of some of the raw talent of some people - and also the fact that others have usually posted a comment that says exactly what I think is also a factor...lol! Comments on my work are fine by me - but I'm not necessarily looking for people to tell me that my images are good, bad, or mediocre - like I said before - just the fact that someone has actually taken the time to view my images is enough for me. I'm an extreme newb to Vue - and only been a member here for a short while - but I've found that this is a great place to find information about Vue - hints and tips etc... and that's a whole lot more important than who looks at my work, or what they have to say about it... T.

I know for me posting images has actually spurred me on to try new things. It's especially hard to devote the time sometimes when you stare at a computer monitor 8-10 hours out of every day to go home and spend any more time staring at a monitor. Every time I post I look back at the images and ask myself, "what can I do now that's different?" or "what can I improve on in the next image?". I get a lot of inspiration and ideas looking through the other galleries as well, maybe I see something that I think could have been done a different way, or I'll see something that another program can do really well and I'll try and see if Vue can achieve a similar (or even better) result. The thing I like about the comment system is that you get feedback which might point you on to another direction or point out something you hadn't even thought of when you were making the image that adds to how you as the artist "see" the image. I also agree with agiel that there are a lot of variables for how many viewings/comments/rankings you get but a lot of it just comes down to personal taste, it's hard to comment on something that while technically great doesn't evoke much in a particular viewer. I myself don't deal very much in abstracts and so I'll look at them and find them interesting but I don't feel very qualified to interpret and make a comment on something like that.

Attached Link: http://forums.garyzullo.com

I think that sums it up beautifully. This happens in almost all the galleries I am afraid. Yeah, it's just like school... cliques form and if you aren't in them you don't get 1) all the raving reviews on anything you put out 2) tons of empty comments .. list list goes on. /gz/ Edited for typos..grrr Message edited on: 06/08/2004 18:47

You have to build a reputation like anywhere. When I started posting here, I didnt get many comments(didn't really deserve them on some images). As my art developed I started getting more and more. I've been here over 3 years so far and averaging about 20-30 comments on my good pictures. Animating thumbnails is a way to get more people to look at your images. It helped out on some of my waterfall pictures. That's what makes people look at your image in the first place, or for me atleast. I don't care who's name is below it.

lilzeek, Before I add my two cents I just wanted to comment on something you said. "Just think if you had vue but no internet connection. Would you still have the same images? Yes!" This is false in my situation and probably in many other peoples case too. I am forever learning from viewing other peoples work, and having comments left about mine. An artist that I have recently taken a liking to, Englewolf, does a lot of metaball work. I have no idea what metaballs are...lol, but I've been playing around lately in the landscape generator, trying to create objects that don't fall into that category. After viewing his work, it opened up a whole new idea base for what I can create using the generator that I never would have thought of. I have gotten comments on things I have just overlooked in an image, though in some cases embarassing, it has allowed me to fix problems I may never have seen and it has made me more aware when creating. I would love if people made more constructive comments on my work, but a simple "Hey, how ya doing?" is great too. I try to comment as much as possible on artwork that I like, whether it be constructive or just "I love your work". I think when anyone tries something new in a creative field (as I am to graphic design), they just want people to comment so they know they are on the right track, and their work means something to someone other than themselves. When you are sitting in the captains chair, even if you think your work is spectacular, it helps a lot to have others around you, giving you support and providing new ideas. It's when the support is not there that people just give up. ~ Ryan