I remember that pic, Marque. I also remember who posted it. It wasn't Bruce (at least not that username) but the discussion was pretty much the same. So M3 doesn't look like a beefy gay guy. He looks like a skinnier gay guy. Or straight guy, whatever you want him to be. as it has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, PoserWorld supports M2 and M3 by making IDENTICAL versions of pretty much all the clothes. So please spare me for that "There's nothing new for M2" argument. I must admit that after I bought Daniel, I've got a new interest in M2 clothes, and whaddayaknow? There's plenty of it! I so much prefer to have a character that I don't have to spend hours morphing just to make him look like someone other than Dan Farr. No offence to Dan but that face just gets boring after a while. M3 (and Freak and Daniel and Seth) are so much easier to morph into something DIFFERENT. Besides, M2 DOES look like he should wear a bra. Sorry, but man-boobs turn me OFF just as much as chicks with d****.

"You are Mesh_Magick and I claim my five pounds"

Do I get five pounds for remembering the other thread? LOL Marque

I remember that thread. I wonder sometimes how many usernames one person needs... ;) bonni

And I have to wonder why he keeps insisting that Daz is letting us down by creating new characters. If anything they are staying up with what most users seem to want, newer and better items. I still use the P4 horse even though I love the mill horse, and also use the bloodsong Heavy Horse. The more characters the better. Marque

The more characters the better. Absolutely! :-) bonni

1. M2 is a mature product. He has 10 times more product and freestuff available than any other figure. If you can think of a piece of clothing that hasn't been made for him, I'd be surprised. 2) Most of the male market has gone to M3, who has considerable less product available than M2. M3, and now David, are what most users are gearing to. There are much fewer people interested in new M2 things than M3. Watch for fewer M3 items now that David has come out (he's the best male figure so far). 3) It's not a question of which figure is better. They both have a place. However, as a vendor and freestuff maker, M2 stuff doesn't make me any money (compared to new M3 or David items), and I can't think of any type of clothing to make for M2. The only thing that was missing for M2 was fetishwear and a long robe, and I did 5 or 6 free packages for M2 to fill that void. 4) M2 is lower poly than M3. Good and bad. M3 gives a better render in closeups. M2 is easier on resources. With faster and more capable computers, resources are less important than they were, so M3 becomes more attractive. So, if you want new items for M2, think of something that hasn't been done for him, and show me who'll pay for it. Side note on genitals: Yeah, M3 hasn't got them. The M3 attached genitals are pretty lame when it comes to posing and fitting. M2's genitals were pretty bad too. At least the M3 genitals can be posed like a character, rather than relying on some pretty bad morphing. Most of the Poser Gay Mafia (yes, we're a family, but we don't leave horse's heads in your bed), use the free GPA genitals by the infamous and estimable Ulf. There are at least 6 different male genital sets available (I know, I have them all). They were all done as a replacement for the M2 genitals because they were so limited. Side note on Daniel, the Aeon Hero: He's the closest thing you'll get to M2 that takes M3 morphs. Applying them to him gives some great and different men. I've taken his base and exported his body parts as morph objects, and applied them to M3 and Seth, the Aeon Teen. Talk about some really nice effects. Side note to ernyoka1: Listen lady, the next time I spray a mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard after reading one of your posts, you get to clean it up. God, are all Poser male figures Gay? I hope not! The idea of Ragbash the Troll trying to chat me up at the Eagle is a little scary (although I've been chatted up by even scarier men there). The one, the only, and using his only handle, PDXJims

Hehe sowwy pdxjims. Of course not all poser males are gay (I know, I've seen them in some very non-gay situations G) but just as in real life some probably are. And just as in real life, not all gay males are big bulky bears. I know (as far as I know - there may be more) 2 gay men IRL, and none of them are big and bulky. as a matter of fact one of them makes M3 look big and bulky in comparision. Uhm... does M2 have a tutu? Even Nigel has a tutu, so who's going to make sure M2 doesn't feel left out? Variety is good. I have Mike 1, 2 and 3, Nigel, Daniel, David, Seth, Adam and Victor (not sure if (s)he counts) Depending on what picture I want to make, I use either of them to fulfill my "vision". ~The one and only TrekkieGrrrl (using the ernyoka1 handle) L

I think the problem with too many characters is that people come out with a really cool outfit that you want to use but it only for one specific figure (that you may not have) I choose to purchace the Concord sci-fi/Military clothing over the MOS clothing from DAZ because i can use it with M2/V2 as well as M3/V3 (both versions come in the set). I like the look of MOS much better but I need it to work with M2, if only to populate the background characters. there are alot of really nice things comming out for M3/V3 that i would love to use, but i can't spend the money on M3 and V3 just to get the outfit. nor can i upgrade my computer to handle all the background characters being M3.

I agree that the M3 morph has some weird issues with certain muscularity morphs. No argument on that count. I do, however, quite like Daniel. He poses beautifully, particularly in the chest/arm area (dunno what Dodger did, but it's good), and he's capable of some very interesting looks. He can't wear 100% of M2's clothes, but he can wear plenty of them with only minor adjustment. I get really tired of seeing the same guys (and gals) over and over and over again. Something a little different is extremely welcome in my Runtime. ;-)

Sorry that was a swap and switch not an upgrade.... An upgrade would have been to add more morphs, fix any existing problems in the mesh and give him the injection morphs. Recreating Vicky as a man was making an entirely new figure not even based on the original. So how can you call that an upgrade?

**Unless you can post a mike 3.0 figure comparible to the Mike 2.0 I posted here then don't make atari 2600 comparisons.....Mike 2.0 is not obsolete by far.** Heh, I didn't say M2 was obsolete. I use him often. I also use V2, V3, M3, Freak, Steph and SP3. I happen to like *variety*. I didn't work very long on this render, mostly because I don't need to prove anything. Half hour, only postwork color-correction because my lightset bleached everything and I didn't feel the need to rerender. Pure M3. Of course, you won't like it. I don't personally like the breasts on the pic you keep posting, either. *Shrug* I suppose it's a good thing I'm a hetero female :) Also, I didn't realize you were MeshMagick when I originally posted to this thread. I won't be replying to you anymore. Not that I get ebots anyway. Have a good day, sir. I hope sometime soon you get to go outside and enjoy some good weather. As for me, I'm going to work. Toodles.

Folks: I, too, prefer M2. Perhaps if all of us M2'ers decided what it is we want for him (clothes, hair, poses, etc.), we could group-commission some of the modelling people (Serrge, etc.) to make it. Ex. we want baseball poses for M2. We get a group of subscribers to commission Schlabber to make exactly the poses we want. The modellers could do some sketches, submit them to the "subscribers", who choose as a group, and Voila!, Bob's your uncle. Or we can provide images of the desired poses. This way we can be more specific about our needs. And, I exagerate for the sake of argument, if 100 "subscribers" each pay $5.00 into a "pool" for a meticulously (and for that much money, a very, very, very meticulously) detailed cowboy outfit for the Freak, Serrge would probably be interested...I'm hoping. This is a business, these are business people. Let's take the business to them, rather that waiting to see what comes along. Thanks for...err, listening. p.s. I use Serrge as an example because he made a wonderful (and free) clown outfit for me some months ago. I just want to return the good deed.

PDXJims you get the bill for my keyboard and monitor. "The idea of Ragbash the Troll trying to chat me up at the Eagle is a little scary (although I've been chatted up by even scarier men there)." I love Ragbash, but I wouldn't want him chatting me up either. LOL Marque

Anyone know offhand if V2 was made from a laser scan? I'd be very surprised if she was, her body shape is very unrealistic, while appropriate for most fantasy supermodel images. Her face isn't unattractive, but I can't say I've ever seen a real person who looked even remotely like that. And I've even seen a real person that looked like Judy! I'm shutting up as far as the whole M2/M3 debate goes, it might as well be PC vs. Mac, CDs vs. MP3s, cats vs. dogs for all I care. ~ Molly

lol how bout a real person who looks like Dina, who was scanned...heh Marque

Molly, Victoria 2 is simply a morph upgrade from Victoria 1, who AFAIK isn't a body scan. Michael 2 is the same thing - a morph upgrade from Michael 1 to give the public want they kept asking for, more options for Michael. some people just like to cause arguments so they can show off their ugly hairy guy in the forums.

OK OK!!! for the sake of renderosity we confess!!!
DAZ did a horrible bait and switch with mike2/3 etc. blah,blah

DAZ should "support" M2 blah blah !!

Bruce_... DUDE please stop spamming us with that beady eyed hairball !!!!!!

Message edited on: 06/04/2004 20:11

I suspect that the next versions of DAZ figures are going to be driven more by their DAZ Studio program than by Poser. However, remember that Poser 4 is still around, renamed Poser Artist. There may be a market for less sophisticated, less resource-heavy, models. Maybe the artists with material for the older figures should look through their back catalogue, and try selling to that market. Do a "Poser Artist" pack to show off their work. Do a little selling. Me, I've been re-arranging some Vicki textures to suit a Posette-derived figure. Maybe use smaller texture-maps -- it doesn't seem to ruin things. Price is not the only feature to consider, but maybe cutting the price of older items will revive sales. Now, I hear DAZ 3D are running a sale... Maybe I shall actually be using M2 next week.

I think Michael 2 still has some life in him.

Wolf 359, no one is spamming you, No one asked you to read this, And your addittude needs ajustment. Also no one invited you to this thread to make nasty rude remarks.

you do not have to be invided to post here harry manboobz.

Actually I invited him and I agree with him. Marque