Attached Link: http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Products/Home&pid=1047022702299

Hello! Bryce has recently been acquired by DAZ Productions, global specialists in the creation of 3D digital content (www.daz3d.com). Bryce is an exceptional product and we feel confident that DAZ is the ideal company to carry it forward. Corel recognizes that Bryce inspires considerable passion and loyalty within the design community. That's why Corel carefully considered a number of factors before making the decision to sell Bryce to DAZ. Our chief concern was to make sure we found a partner who would protect your investments by continuing to innovate, deliver new releases of the product and provide ongoing customer support. With a proven track record in the 3D design community and a commitment to release new versions of Bryce on both the Macintosh and Windows platform, DAZ promises to create a bright future for Bryce and its customers. If you have questions, would like further information, or require Bryce customer support, please visit bryce.daz3d.com or contact DAZ directly via telephone or e-mail (toll-free in the US at 1-800-267-5170, internationally at +011-80-495-1777, or e-mail sales@daz3d.com). On behalf of Corel, I want to thank you for your longstanding loyalty and continued support of Bryce. Sincerely, Amish Mehta Corel CEO

Attached Link: http://bryce.daz3d.com/

Check out the new DAZ|Bryce. Notice again, they talk about making Bryce compatible with DAZ content, *not* Poser content.

"... When correctly combined, DAZ|Studio, DAZ|Bryce, DAZ|Mimic, and innovative third-party plugins will synergize to form a powerful suite of products capable of creating the complete 3D virtuality. ..." There will be no Poser compatibility. Bryce is now a D|S toolset. I'm buyin' Vue, it looks like...

Yeah, that's how I read it, too. As I posted over in the DAZ forums, it sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold.

"Yeah, that's how I read it, too. As I posted over in the DAZ forums, it sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold." Of course. Hasn't that been the case since P5?

As they are fond of noting: DAZ is going after a MUCH larger market than Poser users. While we matter, the eyes are focused on the what if, not the what is. There is absolute belief in this what if. There has to be. Nothing great came from not taking great risks. Unless they dangle a carrot I can reach, and do it soon, I'm going to turn very Anti-DAZ. Which is sad.

"sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold" It might be too early for paranoia of such things. DAZ is far from a stupid company and they know they are built from a poser base. So there is no need to assume that they they wont continue to support poser in their content creation. It only makes sense that on an advertising page (which that is) that they would sell the compatability of their own products. What company wouldnt do that? Lets give them a chance to see how they handle this before mountains are made out of mole hills (which is so often done in poser communities :) ) LOL I think it is a good expansion for them, and if they can make content compatible..then it will benefit the community as well by making more people aware of the poser products and its potential. Rawn

And this is the announcement that is going to change the shape of the future? These guys need to get a grip on reality. First it was comparing themselves to God for "creating" Michael (not Vickie or Steph; they're just girls, y'know?). Then it was heralding D|S as the "Genesis of 3D" (Get it? Nudge nudge). Now because they own a product that, much as I love it, is not even last year's news anymore, the future is different. Well, I guess. If you believe the beat of a butterfly's wing causes earthquakes. And it does, you know, grasshopper. Rilly. Their future. They're welcome to it. I grew weary of their Disney World theatrics and used car salesmanship (That's not a guarantee on that Yugo; it's a promise!!) a long time ago. Mick

Well, at least DAZ is considering moving character content into the future rather than letting its corpse rot on the sidewalk and languish in the basking sunlight of computer and 3D advancement (and they've always backed up their intent). Other than micropolygon displacement, what has Poser 5 really offered that is so much better than Poser 4, Poser 3? And how has Poser competed with the rest of the 3D CG industry? Oh, that's right, they haven't. Since Poser 4 ProPack, Lightwave has gone up two versions, Maya three, 3DSMax three, Cinema two, Vue one and Pro, all adding more and more power to a stable base (for the most part). And still no real plugins for the other apps yet. Unless the new Japanese owner of Poser has an amazing idea up their sleeve to make Poser modern, Poser just ain't gonna do it for real character work anymore. I have a 2x2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 533MHz bus system with more than 1/2 TeraByte (yes, your read that correctly) of storage and Poser stills chugs along at a snail's pace (esp. Poser 5), still has its flakiness, and still couldn't do a rudimentary animation with several figures without several weeks to spare. Have you seen LOTR, Star Wars, et al lately? That's the future of character animation... If my business depended on Poser, I wouldn't be in business. When it did depend on Poser content (Daz's Eagle and Eagle motions), I used C4D to do the animation work in reasonable time periods and professional rendering levels (you know, real lights, HDRI, realtime previews, and no quirky animation cycles). Sorry, I'll place my bets on DAZ. Ante up to the future. Kuroyume

Well, you have to expect some hype with these corporate announcements. ;-)

But if they were planning to support Poser, I would think they'd say so. Vue isn't shy about touting Poser compatibility on their product page.

Actually, distancing themselves from Poser might be a good plan. (For them, not us.) We all know that "real" CGI artists look down on us Poser users. They may want to position D|S with the "real" CGI programs, not with Poser. Most of the existing Bryce base would probably prefer that.

Ahem, DAZ owes it's existance to Poser. DAZ provides Poser content. Now they've added DAZ Studio, which is still in beta, and they've bought Bryce. It's stupid to sever ties to Poser, since Poser has brought them all this income for all these years. Of course I believe they never should have distanced themselves from Curious Labs and Poser 5 either, but they did.

lol "Other than micropolygon displacement, what has Poser 5 really offered that is so much better than Poser 4, Poser 3?" Hmmm. An advanced Materials editor, dynamic cloth simulations, strand based hair, IBL (oh yeah, it's in there), limited atmospherics... But that's not the point. And Poser users are NOT being left out in the cold. Nor do I expect them to be -- DAZ will continue to produce Poser content well into the future. That content will not, however, take advantage of the features of competing programs. That content will not be forward thinking in relation to those competing programs. Kuroyume is correct -- if this were a horse race I'd bet on DAZ. It might be a gimp horse with shoddy legs, but it's still the best game in town (even if the next version won't have to deal with limitations in a "backwards" program). It's not a horse race, however. Nor is it a poker game. However, it is Business. And DAZ's goal is to increase the number of users of it's products. By whatever means necessary. That is the goal of any business. If you aren't cutthroat about it, then don't get into it. My issue is that I believe in community spirit. Lead as much as you wish to. Innovate and acquire and grow. But remember from whence it is you came. DAZ is not ignoring the whiny, bitchy, malcontent group of change resistant and hyper critical Poser users. Probably should, actually, but they aren't. They just aren't actively developing forward with it. As noted earlier -- that is NOT what they intend to do. Not now, not ever. They are pushing for something that does need to be done. It's painful, but necessary. I just don't like the way they are doing it.

Just wondering - did DAZ hire any additional development staff, maybe people from the original Bryce team? Buying an application is one thing, but maintaining and further development take up quite some extra resources. Do they have the staff to work on Mimic, Studio and Bryce?

All that, and I just said it elsewhere in one sentence, lol: I'm upset because DAZ is not being socially responsible. This is purely a judgement call, based on my own peculiar (and un-sane) belief system. So it's a personal problem. I'll deal with it, and move along now...

I might be missing something here ... but I don't see anywhere on the DAZ Bryce page that it will not support Poser content ... it does say: "DAZ is currently developing technology that will provide improved import capability of existing DAZ content into Bryce. This development will take place in phases until a seamless integration is achieved. Continued support for both MAC and PC platforms is planned, as well as new features and benefits." Existing DAZ content is in OBJ format, so that it is compatible with both Poser AND DAZ|Studio.

heh -- I noted that same question in a different thread, Stewer. I also noted that this acquisition gives DAZ the ability to use the same interface mechanism that Poser has -- for any of their products...

If they were going to support Poser content, I would think they'd say "Poser content." But they don't. They say "DAZ content." Bryan's phrasing was exactly the same: "BTW, wouldn't it be cool if Bryce could import all your DAZ content?"

To me, this means Bryce will import D|S content - which is not compatible with Poser.

I also noted that this acquisition gives DAZ the ability to use the same interface mechanism that Poser has -- for any of their products... What do you mean by mechanism? The MetaCreations look or the internal code?

the whole Kai Krause interface, hon.

Which isn't implemented as nicely in Bryce as in Poser, IMHO.

But if D|S has the familiar Poser interface, that might help lure Poser users to jump ship.

Me, I'm not wild about the Poser interface. I found it very difficult to learn my way around, though of course I'm used to it now. I found Vue much more intuitive.

And which, IIRC, rbtwhiz thoroughly detests. (Along with several other folks who sorta feel it's too hand holding) Then again, he did foist that D|S version on us. So much for an artist's tool having an artistic look. I think I'll stick with kai's...

I think the poser interface is a lot easier to use than D|S...

Not sure how liberal or restricting the whole interface licensing stuff goes...and well, just using the same look doesn't make a good UI. You need some good UI designers/engineers that build a UI concept that makes sense. (as far as I know, Kyle Maxwell did the Poser UI - didn't see any mention of Kai Krause in the Poser source code)

Part of it is "what you're used to". Vue is easier to pick up initially because it's more conventional. I remember the first time I tried to use Bryce or Poser I got totally lost very quickly. When you learn how to exploit the Bryce interface to best advantage it's a pleasure to use. For me, Poser is a tool for getting figures into Bryce. I haven't tried D|S yet, but as long as one can pose figures conform and conform clothing, and use Vicky, Mike, Posette etc, to me it will still be Poser content even if they want to call it Daz content. Presumably D|S can read cr2s or pz3s?

"So much for an artist's tool having an artistic look." "Never let an engineer design anything" - said my instructor in my UI design class in my first year of C.S. studies...

All I want is "Poser" import. I had Bryce3 a few years back and never had much success using it with my Poser files, but with Vue4, I have been quite satisfied. I can not, for the life of me, get the lighting "right" in Poser, so I choose to create a PZ3 and import it into a scene. Actually, I usually build the scene around them and not having to deal with loading the texture maps and what-ever else has been a major plus for me. I do all my posing, my adding clothing and hair, etc.etc. in Poser and then import them into Vue4 as a single "PZ3" file. For me Poser will not die anytime soon, I depend on it to give me the characters I want to use for a particular scene. I do hope that Daz will not abandon it's support to it in favor of "Bryce" content.

Kyle developed it from the common base that Kai Krouse set up for the whole metacreations line. Kai was, well, somewhat out there, lol Kyle's also the guy who really deserves the credit for the theory behind it -- and he did a good job. Execution wasn't always there, but then, he designed it for one purpose, and it's been shifted to another. And you're right -- it's the concept that's the key. So, as noted elsewhere by the Venerable L_D, I may be way off. I'd forgotten how Lightwave centric DAZ is. They may very well scrap the current interface entirely and shift to a lightwave inspired version. Now won't that thrill folks?

Presumably D|S can read cr2s or pz3s?

one would like to presume that, but, well, not too well unless it's one created by DAZ so far... ... and that will change of course. no. Really. IT will. They want it to import stuff. They are just having a hard time witht he conversion from the poser bones to a weight mapping thing. Doesn't want to work too well. also, parented stuff likes to fly off in all directions.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 10:31

Hey, at least Bryce is alive now.

So now I only need to figure out what all that buzz is about - I never used Bryce in my whole life, and so far, I couldn't figure out why people are so keen on rendering their Poser figures in it.

Very true -- and it's been a long, long time for it. Bryce is alive. Good cause for celebration there. of cours, now DAZ gets to be on the recieving end for taking a program that's languished and trying to add new features to it, lol... my my, how times have changed....

Does that mean CL will now start selling the millenium rock for Brcye? g

Stewer, it goes back. Waaayyy back. All the way to metacreations before the break up. The often stated plan way back then was to make all the core applications (Bryce, Poser, Raydream/Carrara, and Canoma) totally interchangeable. You would use poser to set up the figures, bryce to set up the scene, raydream to make all the cool parts for it, and carrara or Bryce to render. They were supposed to be a team of applications -- a suite like the Office programs that worked together back and forth without much issue. They were designed for that task, and the "next step" since at the time they had achieved pretty much the best they could was to integrate them all. Then the break up hit. The dream has long been that they would somehow be merged together again, despite the odds and the different companies. It's kinda sad that one of the coolest people to ever deal with the joint use of Poser and Bryce died before seeing this announcement. no, not kinda...

The Millenium Rock, the Millenium Pond, the Millenium Oak (morphable into every tree species, including Bonsai versions), and coming soon, The Millenium Highway!

Why do I suddenly see a render in my immediate future....

"Stewer, it goes back. Waaayyy back. All the way to metacreations before the break up."

Ah, I see. All the stuff I know only from history books and grampa's stories... I touched Poser for the first time just after ProPack was out, so my P4 box doesn't even have the fancy MetaCreations logo (but I still have a notepad with that logo!) - or the free version of Painter 3D :( Message edited on: 06/23/2004 10:48

yeah -- that was one of the coolest things... Ah well... Real life beckons, and then it's time for me to see what further harm I can do in the world of design....

Geeze, I hope they do something good with Bryce. I used Bryce 4 for about a year then found Vue 4. Inside a week, I could do things in Vue I could never do in Bryce. It's just too much of a pain to use.

That said, I'd bet on DAZ also. IMO, the people who left Poser users out in the cold was CL when they didn't advance Poser. How long did they think we could keep using a program written in the 90's? And DAZ, being a forward-thinking company, must have realized that too. They couldn't base their future soley on a dinosaur of a program. The have to do something to move adead or they'd eventually die, just like Poser will if something isn't done.

Also--DAZ makes Poser content. Hence, DAZ content = Poser content.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 11:13

oh great .. I'm gonna haveta update my classes :P well if DAZ can keep Bryce alive AND finally make poser content easy to use in it that would be dandy. I don't think DAZ is silly enough to turn a blind eye to the mass of Poser users out there, so in all likelihood they'll make sure both DS and Poser content is usable. Ind you, DAZ has done some very silly things before, so we shall see. And DAZ? hire JonathanAllen, Tony Lynch and Frogdot for new Bryce content please? grin Lyrra

CL has a new owner now, and they seem serious about advancing Poser. I don't know if they'll really get Poser 6 out by the of the year, but I think they will get it out. And I'm also pretty sure DAZ won't support it. If they're not supporting Poser 5, why would they support Poser 6?

And DAZ content is not necessarily Poser content. D|S files cannot be read by Poser.

Poser 6 will not be out this year. That's not fact. It's estimation based on current efforts. It will be out next year, and there will most likely be improved support for Vue (whom e-frontier invested very heavily in) and added support for Shade. oh, and all those niggly little stability things will be fixed. I'll second Lyrra's nominations. waves at jackson

So basically, I'm going to have to decide if I want to go with Shade, Vue, and Poser, or with DAZ, D|S, and Bryce. I suppose competition is a good thing. I'm just afraid I'll end up having picked Betamax in a VHS world.

hey! Betamax rocks! or, err, um, it did. once. Shortly before the lower cost, lower quality, more widely adopted VHS took over the world. Me, I'll use both.

Good luck trying to get parts and tapes for Beta. Even Japan doesn't use it anymore.

I used to post to a few video newsgroups and message board whenever I had Beta tapes to give away. At first, they'd be all gone by the end of the day. Now, weeks or months go by before anyone shows any interest.

oh man -- did I get too vague in my parallels? rats... I switched over to DVD anyway. ;)

There is a new reality in play: There are more Bryce users than Poser users (could be wrong, prolly not...) this changes the dynamics considerably. Love 'em or hate 'em, DAZ did a smart thing (and this is coming from a guy who prefers Vue over B5...) So what does this mean for Poserdom at large? Poser is getting absorbed into Shade, while D|S will get absorbed into a suite that seamlessly moves from D|S to Bryce to ...? Good question. I can say one thing, though - I enjoyed watching the DAZ-hating brats among us (and you know who you are) going into apoplexy...(evil grin). /P

NEWS FLASH!! DAZ has decided to sell all "Poser" content. Yup that's right, DAZ has realized that to spread one's self too thin will only result in shabby product and poor support so to remedy this problem DAZ has decided to get out of "Poser" all together and sell all it's "Poser" content and focus now only on D|S/Bryce/MIMIC. DAZ will be transferring all existing "Poser" content to the new Mega Poser Content manufacture: RunTimeDNA! Yup that's right, all cutting edge "Poser" content will now be handled by skilled craftsmen (and women) like Syyd, Colm, Traveler, Judith & Chris, John Malis, Lady Little Fox, Maveris, Xurge, Sharkey, Dave71, Nikita Creed, Secretheart, Stacey_73, LadyElf, Elec. Fashions, Visual Silence, and Kalypso! The Platinum Club will now be known as the Props Club where EVERY Monday will be Christmas for all it's members!! And to kick off this new Poser era RunTimeDNA will be releasing a Baby Vampire to add to it's Beast Hunter series! YIPEEEEE! ------------------ Disclaimer: all above details is purely fictional speculation and do not reflect the views of RDNA or any of it's staff. But hey, one can dream can't they?? But a baby vampire would be really cool, eh?!?

Hmm. I wonder how many of us won't buy either product simply because the combination duplicates apps we already have. I don't see a compelling reason to buy either at the moment. Time will tell, I guess.

The purchase of some new technology is a good idea for Daz, and gaining another seriously loyal fan base (the Bryce users) is not going to hurt any. The issue is, can they put in the resources needed to bring Bryce up to a modern level by updating the renderer or replacing it entirely?

"Unless the new Japanese owner of Poser has an amazing idea up their sleeve to make Poser modern, Poser just ain't gonna do it for real character work anymore."

Poser was never really viable for pro level character work. Surely we all know that right?

There is nothing so far in D|S that changes this. To see what is needed for "real character work" take a look at Motionbuilder and the bone/rigging/skin systems in XSI/Max/Maya.

I have always had and still have a soft spot for Daz. Victoria has, over the years, made me a fair amount of money... but let's be somewhat realistic here. Daz is in a position to make a play for the top dog in a small market. Effectively, the Poser market. They simply do not have the technology clout at the moment to be a major player in the higher end 3D market as a software vendor.

The thing is, Daz COULD be a major player in the high end market... but as a content supplier, not a tool company. Rig V3 fully for Motionbuilder. Skin/Rig her for Maya. Skin/Rig her for Max. I mean >really< do it - muscles, bones and so on.

They'd sell a million of them. It's an entirely new market out there just dying for something like her in those tools - and that market is never really going to use D|S and especially not Bryce.

"So now I only need to figure out what all that buzz is about - I never used Bryce in my whole life, and so far, I couldn't figure out why people are so keen on rendering their Poser figures in it."

Bryce was an innovative program for the time - geared for Terrain generation and world building. Honestly as a general 3D app it ranks (for me) somewhere just under ripping my own head off with a blender and hoping the blood makes a pretty picture.

Basically it is way, way behind the curve on being a modern 3D application. It has a large and dedicated following though.

It will be upsetting if it turns out that direct P5 -> Bryce imports aren't possible. I think it is a bad idea for Daz to continue to force users to chose between them and CL. It is to my mind a very, very sad thing that Daz never moved to embrace the advances in P5... those advances are, to me, much more important than being able to use the latest figure.

The fact that I can't use all my Poser content and scenes in D|S is why I never really put D|S in my workflow.

The fact that Daz has not embraced dynamic cloth or hair or advanced materials for its figures and products has prevented me from buying a lot of stuff from them. In many cases now there is really no good reason to keep buying textures and items that don't take advantage of the technology at our disposal.

While that won't ever change and it looks like Daz is in the process of breaking their content away from Poser I can hope that Bryce won't make this choice any worse.

Because right now, if I have to chose between being locked into Bryce and D|S and using Poser to work with particular items Poser wins hands down.

I was gonna come over from the Bryce forum and give you guys some friendly grief..but you're way ahead of me..;) I'm still trying to figure out why adding Bryce = losing Poser. They've been supporting Poser for years, so how does that follow? A little competition never hurt, and if Daz Studio gives Poser a run for it's money, then Poser will be forced to upgrade and add new features, and everybody wins..and if Bryce can get to a point where I don't have to retexture Vicky's eyeballs every time I import her into Bryce, that's a good thing too..though I wonder who cleaned up at the 'wild speculation' forum at Poser..;)