I see that there is one hell of a buddy system here. Was going thru the hot 20 list and to me 1/2 of them don't belong and ones that should be there are not. I vote for you and you vote for me. Some are no more that a basic fractal with a wild map file that my cat could do by stepping on the keyboard by mistake. Ones that are thought out and worked on get nothing. Everyone gets an excellent rating no matter what it is, why have a rating system. You give a bit of advice and say something wrong abot one and you get blamed for flaming. If you don't put in a comment your work never gets noticed. Enough for now.

Interesting thought, but I guess I don't really post here hoping to make the hot 20 list, or to get a lot of good comments. I create fractal art for myself first, and if I'm happy with what I've done I'll share it. If other people like it I am pleased, but if they ignore it or say something I don't like why should it bother me? Life is too short to stress over small petty things like this.

I disagree...I've found the fractal community here to be very supportive of other artists and new fractal learners. I rarely see fractals posted to the gallery without a comment or two even if it's just for encouragement. I haven't read every comment but the ones I have read that were criticism seemed to me to be written not to offend but to help or suggest and were to artists that had specifically requested it. The hot 20 is the hot 20...if enough people clicked that vote button it deserves to be there. Any community is as good as the people that participate in it care to make it, I think this one is friendly and open. If you're unhappy about some aspects of this one then participate in it more and help to make it the type of community you wish it to be. Just my 2 cents...;o)

I agree with Rhaina for the most part. I'm so pleased when an artist who's work I admire posts a comment on an image I've done. Since I only post things I like, if something isn't particularly well received, I'm more surprised than disappointed. If the hot 20 were a contest of some kind, with a cash prize (hint hint) then I'd feel more competitive, but as it is, it's a showcase for the images the viewers like best, and that is just fine with me. By the way, I rarely vote, and when I do, I vote for something truly unique and extraordinary.

You are not the first to notice this. This conversation has already happened several times. A while ago, Matt (or whoever that person is) managed to push the worst fractal ever to the top of the hot 20, over a Rykk image, by voting for it with multiple screen names. I'm not sure what his/her point was except to show that it can be done and it was in a grand fashion.

Hi all
I've already stated this previously.
If more members would hit that vote button, then maybe there would be more variety in the Hot 20.
I know there is a large percentage of members who do not vote.
So before we start re-hashing this again, why not take the time to vote more :)

And the V, in the gallery comments, does not have to be included :)

JUST VOTE!

Thanks

Nick

I agree with Pigsty, an image being in top20 is not a testament to it's quality. There are some images posted that are average and still reaches #1, and then there are pictures that are spectacular but barelly get a single vote. A thought about comments, check out the most commented poserimage, wich is also ranked the second most commented image on renderosity... :) http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=69348&Start=1&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&MostCommented=Yes I try to comment on the images that has the least comments, because they're the ones that needs them.

Agree. I posted an image that got 23 positive comments and it never saw the Hot 20. All it needed at the time was 6 votes. Out of 23 comments, it couldn't even get 6 votes? Part of me still tries to get an image in the Hot 20, but part of me is really disgusted with the entire process. The title of this thread is perfect. I cherish every vote I get and am deeply grateful for them and the comments left, but I find it hard to spend as much time here with school, posting images on three sites, and maintaining my own site. A lot of what's in the Hot 20 isn't the best pieces, just the pieces from people that comment on everything and write V for all their voting. It's been that way probably before I started posting here, and this isn't the first thread to bring it to life, so I doubt it's going to change. I wonder how many people no longer post images here because of the discouragement that all this brings?

I've moved the bulk of my time to DeviantArt. Partly because the html is more user friendly and mostly because I can get prints of my work made there, but also partly because the ranking is done by page views. I say scrap the Hot 20 and make it the 20 Most Viewed. People would get more attention for having better art if it was based on the people that actually looked at it, instead of who's the most popular.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 14:03

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 14:04

It is what it is. I've put up lots of masterpieces that have never made it there. I figure that my masterpieces don't make it there because they're not as good as I think they are or people just aren't interested. It's OK either way. I've stopped fretting about it. Most of the time the hot 20 works like it's supposed to. Sometimes I wonder, but not too much anymore, because it just doesn't matter.

I would like to get my hands on the R'osity database and do a little data mining. I'd compare the rate of comment posting to the rate of comment/vote receiving.

While I do believe that there are plenty of warranted comments and votes, I think it's undeniable that more comments and v's will get you more of the same in return--it's just human nature, when you get a nice comment, you feel appreciative towards that person. You have a limited time to browse the gallery, so your clicks are spent on the thumbs that catch your eye and the users you are feeling appreciative towards. You might even feel guilty if you don't 'return the favor'. So I basically agree with the OP; I don't think there is any way to fix it, it's just the way things are. Unfortunately it means that many images get less attention than they deserve.

Note: I am not accusing people of commenting just to get more comments; more that some people have more time or inclination to comment on a lot of images.

Deagol, Instead of someone voting up an image using multiple accounts (which may be a small problem but not really the problem here) I think a better test would be for someone to comment on every image posted and see what happens with their own posts.

Take it one more step and thank everyone for every comment that you get every time. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but like you say, it will be returned with comments. There's nothing scientific about this. It will never make complete sense, but it does make sense most of the time.

I agree....and don't agree. I generally don't do thank you notes. No time. I generally don't run first to the images of people who have commented on my work (mostly because I can't remember who in my rush to see everything new). I am new to fractal art, and people have been open and generous by viewing and commenting on my images. I never even think about the top 20. What is it's purpose anyway? I think I went there once during the post about the trumped up vote on the horrid image (which I really didn't think was that horrid) I vote for ones I like... I never say I voted, I just do it. Again, I'm not sure I see the problem. If there are as many opinions as there are fractals posted, I'm amazed that any get enough votes to make it. I just like to share and learn. Miriah

I dont find any truth at all in this statement:
If you don't put in a comment your work never gets noticed

I am probably the worst commenter in this place. I used to go through the galleries every day and comment a lot, but with young children, i dont have much time to do so anymore. Yet the great people in this community still post comments to my work. I also used to thank people individually for their responses, but again, i dont have the time, and i dont like sending the same standard IM's to everyone, so i thank people generally under my images instead. At least that way they are aware that i still notice and appreciate each comment they leave.

I myself used to wonder about the Hot 20, and how some images made it in there when some spectacular ones are overlooked, but i shrugged it off as obviously some voters seeing something in the image that really appealed to them, but might not to me.
In any case it isnt something i worry over anyway. I post here to let people look at what ive been making, and also in the hope that maybe one of my images might brighten someones day. Not because i aim for the Hot 20, because frankly i dont give a stuff about it.
I enjoy it more if one of my fractals has really appealed to someone enough to leave a comment. We all enjoy looking at beautiful things, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, hence why some images may make it to the hot 20 that other people dont think deserve to be there.

I also disagree with your comment on the critique of an image ( in general, as i guess sometimes you get the odd person who doesnt like criticism). Ive had several suggestions to my own works on occasions, and at all times have found them to be extremely useful and helpful.

And why there is yet ANOTHER thread on this kind of thing i have no idea, but frankly, continually rehashing it is becoming a huge yawn-fest.

There IS something everyone can do about the Hot 20: When you find an image you really like VOTE for it. You can vote for as many images you really like, there is no limit on that. In order to change something, ONE has to change. If you feel there are wonderful images that never make the Hot 20, VOTE for them. When more people starts doing that instead of wonder about it, it will start to change. And about great images and artists going unnoticed, why don't you post ideas to do something about it? I can't guarantee they will happen, but they WILL be taken into account. We can make the best fractal community out there TOGETHER! :) Cheers! Barbara

Interesting opinions. I don't care for the ratings and have not checked to receive them for a long time. I love to view art and hence, go to many other galleries besides the 'fractal gallery'. I post comments frequently, both to encourage newcomers, and to comment on certain aspects of particular images such as detail, color, design, presentation, etc. I do not vote very often. An image must be really 'mind boggling' for my vote. I rarely go to the Hot 20. Now that I am retired and older, I just make fractals to please myself and hope that they may give some small measure of enjoyment to whoever looks at them. Yes, there seems to be this 'I'll comment on yours if you comment on mine' thinking. I guess that is human nature! Marion

Message edited on: 06/24/2004 07:22

Myself I hardly comment unless I think I should most of the time I will only vote with no comment. As for mine I know they are not good enough for the hot 20. I do for me what I think is ok. What pleases me is from our site will have 2000 downloads of an image or someone will think it is good enough for a cd cover, power point presentations for a sunday church surman,web page background or even as a wall paper. That is what counts and even then not really to meaningful. It is human nature to give best results to friends. Thats life. All art, as is everything is in the eye of the beholder. My dimes worth.

I think the Hot 20 is where it's at. It's the ultimate fractal accolade that everyone here should be striving for... The only thing better than having one of your images in the Hot 20 is...Ninjas!!! Ninjas are sooooo sweet and they are mammals. www.realultimatepower.net Matt.

LOL!!

Finally, the voice of reason! Thanks Matt.

Hahaha...;o)

The Hot20 images are easily forgotten. Some of mine were there, others never. Comments is what remains. But after seven days your images disappear from there... So who cares?

Even better are views. That's the whole purpose of art anyway. Comments can be deleted, but views are permanent. Ninja's. Still laughing at that.

Ninjas sweet? I'm too old to get it, but I'll be honest and admit it's nice to see one or two of my images make the Hot 20 once in awhile. Still..in the scheme of things, it's not that big a deal. My grandkids being here- now that's a big deal..and they love my stuff no matter what. Grandkids are sweeter than ninjas. I try to comment on nearly everything, but sometimes I get overwhelmed..and can't afford the time. And I vote for images I honestly consider outstanding (yes, I know I'm impressed to easily..and, Keith, I can't believe you used the "M" word in reference to anyone..even yourself. :) So..finally, I certainly appreciate the views and comments and votes..but my opinion of my work or myself doesn't hinge on what you think.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=702393&Start=1&Artist=Deagol&ByArtist=Yes

Keith.. How do you know it's "only good"..or that the "system is working?" Doesn't that conclusion discredit those of us who thought- and ranked the image an excellent one? You can have several "excellent" ratings on a pic and one "hmm" to bring it down to "good." I don't think the rating system is an accurate way to guage the excellence of an image..necessarily. I still maintain the image is an excellent one, but- except for some basic elements of good composition that apply to art across the board, it's all pretty subjective, anyway, IMO. So, what others think does matter..to a certain extent; otherwise, why the disappointment?

I'm kinda stuck in the middle of the Hot 20 thing... On the one hand I don't really care if my images make it there or not, but on the other hand I would like to see the chaff weeded out of it and replaced by some half decent images. I'm as much to blame as the next person though because I don't really vote as often as I should. But if someone was to post a really sweet fractal ninja pic though, then I would be like... WHOA!!! TOTALLY SWEET FRACTAL NINJA PIC DUDE!!! V Matt. (If anyone wants to make a totally sweet fractal ninja pic and post it, then let me know and i'm sooooo there).

WHOA!!! TOTALLY SWEET FRACTAL NINJA PIC DUDE!!! V This has to be the best ninja fractal...ever! Probly the ONLY ninja fractal ever, lol The pink really does add to the sweetness of it. Thanks, Vivian. This made my day :O) Matt. (I think this would make a great monthly challenge subject - of course I have to win it first and since i've never entered that could be a bit hard).

Linda, Good point :)

WHOA!!! TOTALLY SWEET FRACTAL NINJA PIC DUDE!!! V Not only a ninja, but a ninja's babe too...Awesome! She's servicing her man with a cuppa tea. Just like all good ninja babes should! (gonna get in trouble over that comment, heh heh). Thanks, Garth :O) On a sweet ninja fractal pic roll here... Matt. (If anyone else has any totally sweet ninja fractal pics to show off, then start a new thread called 'totally sweet ninja fractal pics' cos we going off topic here :O)).

I'm fairly new here (and have only just found the hot twenty!) .. I am overwhelmed by the supportive comments people make. I have no idea who you are and don't have the time to thank you all individually though everytime I post I feel guilty that I don't. I'd rather spend my time commenting on those images that I find striking. This is a wonderful community and the whole controversy over who gets in the hot twenty or who doesn't is just a small part of that. I am awed by the enormous talent here. Any comment/vote is a mixture of the artist's work and the viewer's subjective response. Its up to us to comment or vote, that is the democratic process.

Hello, my first comment here. sorry, for my bad english. i think, i posted a lot pics here, a lot normally ,and a couple good pics. nothing from me in the Hot 20!!! I am piss off. I think, i delete all my stuff here and say Bye.

I sure hope that was a joke Wolfbear! I have always enjoyed your work and am really having fun with your latest images! I like the way you are pushing and exploring.