Attached Link: http://www.3dmenagerie.com

shoot i would. reading through some of the P5 Manual and understanding it for new people can be a rather hair pulling experience. even coming from an avid user of P4 into P5 it was....interesting to say the least. vastly different in some areas and similar in others between the two programs but.....personally the manual that comes with P5 leaves much to be desired. oh sure it covers basic stuff but one that a body can actually read and apply the techniques without much trial and error, to put it simply, something that was a little more in detail would be dandy! i'd buy it. :-D

It would sell better if you do Poser 6 instead. That way, you can get an advance version of the app, 6 months before the rest of us.

lol -- I'd love to do Poser 6, hon. But since that puppy won't start workin it until later this year at the earliest, it's a bit of a wait, lol Truth be told I'd only be selling it to justify the time spent on it to my dearest darling hubby. Who would more or less require that justification, lol

Include a few props, scene files, some materials, etc, as part of the examples in the book, sort of the way that Vue has example and tutorial files, and you could be in business.
To maximise your market, you should divide the book into Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced sections.

The beginner section would be for a total newbie. How to install, what goes where, what each room does, how all the controls work, how to set up a scene, dressing a character, apply textures, etc.

Intermadiate should cover things like using python, animation, firefly settings, lights, material room functions, conforming, morphs, etc.

Advanced should cover things like ERC, JCM, clothes creation, poserizing a model, setting up an animatable figure, writing python, exporting to other apps, etc.

That's just a rough idea.

If someone, like ynsaen was prepared to head up the project, and do all the editing and administrative work, we could make this a community project, and get various people to write various chapters, (like I won't be writing the Python chapter, but I could write a chapter on Poserizing a 3ds model). As long as the person who was making the profit was selling it really cheaply, and did enough work on collecting all the information from various people, getting permision to include tutorials, etc, I wouldn't mind doing this for free.

Obviously everyone who contributes gets the book for free!!!!

Just an idea.

About time we had a community project going.

I would buy it if I can see previews of how it looks once open... What I really hate in Poser5 manual that came with Poser5 is the too many references to other sections of the book. And the fact that it is hard to find the answer to a question by simply looking at the index at the end. From what I gathered, Poser5 manual is not too good even for users of older versions of Poser. But at least, these users have an idea of what they are talking about. When I bought Poser, I had never worked with 3d before and the terminoly was (and still is most of the time) like Chinese to me. AND I would need lots of illustrations (not really of the finished project) but of the parameters and menus, etc. AND most of all, it would have to be written for beginners, keeping in mind that even if you think a few steps may be left out because they are obvious to you, those might make the whole difference to the end user. Things like... 1. Pose your figure with an upturned hand to hold the next item you'll add to the scene Yeah sure! I am at number one and I already had things I didn't know how to do! HOW do I pose the hand? What next item (the item is already part of the figure or is it something new)? and even... what's a scene? ;o) And then when you start to understand and are giving it all your concentration, there is a sentence inserted that says: "see such and such section for that part" so you have to flip the pages, find that section, read through it, flip the pages again because surely there is at least one other reference in there, etc. By the time you come back to your project, you have to start from number 1. France

Francemi -- that's exactly what I mean about not following standard user manual format. There would definitely be lots of pictures, and everything would be in one location (redundancy is a good thing in a manual), and it would be very step by step from the beginning.

Will it come with a Pop-Up Vicky and Stephanie??

Then you may keep a copy for me for I will definitely buy it... if it comes out before I have the time to become an expert in Poser or I am too old to be able to use it, of course! loll P.S. I prefer the PDF format for those manuals as I can go back and forth between the interface I'm working on and the manual (with alt+tab) and the cursor stays at the right place in the manual. When I use a book, I waste time finding the place I was at. France

well, just for you igohigh? anything is possible! LOL

"If a third party were to write a Poser 5 Manual, would you buy it.? by ynsaen " Almost certainly YES! Unsolicited suggestions: Illustrate each chapter/section/P5 room with at least 3 tutorials at Basic, medium, and advanced levels, using ONLY figures, props, textures, and resources already present in the program. Keep any and all reference to external products (add-on figures/clothing/ products either free or commercial) OUT OF THE MAIN BODY OF THE BOOK and just discuss them in an appendix. But DO include a discussion of the evolution of external content including the most popular add-on figures and the compatibilities, incompatibilities, and interdependencies between them in the last appendix. Use a LOT of screen captures. ... just my 2 cents worth ... Looking forward to it!

I'd be interested in a Poser 5 specific guidebook with basics as well as advice on advanced techniques (like how to use lighting, materials, and sets to produce the desired render you envision).

I bought 'Secrets of Figure Creation with Poser 5' from Focal Press which covers many areas of Poser 5 in detail. In parts though it gets very technical. So a book set somewhere between the standard Poser 5 manual and 'Secrets...' would be an attractive proposition. More so if the specific new Poser 5 functions were covered ie: hair, cloth, material room in an understandable manner.

A "dummies guide" would be helpful for new users definately. Call me old fashioned, but I would prefer a hold in your hands, open and read book, though I'm warming to computerised manuals. It sounds like it would be a very useful tool. Chloe

Chloe, I'm a sit in bed with pens in the hair and a pad of paper beside me with a big ol mcse book type. I know exactly what you mean, lol. If a publisher picked it up, then awesome, but the pdf would let me get it out into the hands of folks sooner. Becco, Definitely would cover the newer stuff. Truth is, there is a tremendous amount of information available to P4 users, but very little specifically geared to P5. What's nice is that all the P4 stuff, excepting materials settings, is still applicable in P5 -- so the book would enable me to aid new Poser Artist users as well, without burying them in too much muck with P5. Something a lot of P5 advocates forget is that Artist and 5 are priced pretty evenly. So it's sorta like a coin toss for which one people will pick up.

Yes, please...could it come out in paper with a .pdf version on the CD? And could it have really, really useful "idiot friendly" step-by-step instructions for the assorted rooms? And could there be content much like the Poser CD's? And could I have a puppy? No, wait, that was from my Christmas wish list from 35 years ago...how about just the other requests? I love this program. It's what I do to releive stress (believe it or not) instead of playing solitair or zoning out in front of the television. But I dearly wish it was easier to understand and use. Any truly good beginners manual would start something like "Congratulations...now chew your way through the protective seals and open the box..." and go from there. Thank you for asking, and please, add me to whatever list you have of potential customers.

Consider it done, Cedarwolf :)

actually, wait a sec -- I just asked: my kids are NOT willing to part with the new chihuahua puppy or the not quite as new mixed pit-and-god-knows-what-else puppy. Both are boys, however, so maybe I'll look into stud fees on the chihuahua...

PeachPit press is coming out with one, supposed to be this month but they've been coming out with it for at least a year now. You might want to check to see what is up with that. I agree with the above. LOTS of screenshots and also the tutorials from beginner to advanced and...oh...numanoid already listed most of it....heh Please keep the price reasonable though. It's tough to fork out $50 these days. Thanks, Marque

Thanks for the heads up, Marque. I'll definitely look into what's coming from them (withholding opinions, lol). Like I said -- 10 to 15 or so. Comparable with the general market price (hey, I'm just as broke as everyone else, lol) If a publisher picks it up, well, that'll sorta put it out of my control. And I'm not payin diddly to a vanity press, lol. I will look at ways to put it in Print form and keep it around there (can you say, Kinko's?), but I should likely finish writing first, ya think?

Yah,always finish the assignment if you want the grade...at least that's what I tell my sometimes reluctant students. Good luck to you, and to the community, on this project.

Mick McAllister was apparently working on a Visual Quickstart guide for Peachpit press. However, he is no longer listed among their authors... There's that atrocity by Shamms, too. And bloodsong's wonder. Ok. It's a go.

Here I am again with suggestions. 1/ Don't do it all at once, but slice it up. Each slice is a separate pdf that is protected, and people who subscribe can get that code sent to a valid e-mail adress. The code is valid for what you intend to cover in the manual. Another advantage of this is that if ever you eed to add some content or find a better way of explaining, you only have to create a new pdf for that particular item/chapter. 2/ This way, you can start manuals at beginners level intermediate and even high-end at the same time. Each level would need a different code to unlock the series of pdf's. 3/ Add to this a protected members section on your site where subscribers can ask questions and exchange insights, evt. from time to time download something Start threads at the various forums asking people what they want to be explained, where the difficulties lie,... Only suggestions of course: it's your idea.

Hmmmm. I sorta avoided commenting on Numanoid's aspect because it went a little farther, but was meant well. I will take everythig into consideration. I'll start within the next couple of days after I finish collecting a bit more research. After that, fear the mighty questioning....

Simply put; YES! Need more data . . .

YES/YES/YES!!!!!

I like the idea of an advanced poser 5 section, that would also make the book useful for everyone.

Would I buy it? Only if it included full (and I mean FULL) documentation of the Poser library file syntax.

lol!!! Well then, Les, odds are I'll have to really do some digging. Hmm. That'll mean good sources of info on them. Who do I know of that knows a lot about poser file syntax. Lemme see.... hey. wait a sec. Oh yeah! I know! I'll go bug that guy over int he poser tech forum -- what's his name? Lesbently or something....

Ummm ... you have easy access to a Poser god, too ... what about Trav? 8-D

If I could see examples I would. What makes it different than just reading a tutorial here? Examples like what the title refers to "Secrets of Figure Creation". What kind of figure creation and what kind of secrets? Real "figure" creation or can I just read a Dr.Geep tutorial and make a figure like he did with the boxes. Can I do everything in Poser or do I need another software? Look I made this cup in poser. Look I made this conforming shirt in poser. Look I made G.I.R.L. in Poser. hahaha... Dr.Geep (Free) Book ($$). hummm...

Look I made G.I.R.L. in Poser. Now THAT would be quite an accomplishment. ;-)

I would never, ever, ever take away from Geep. As I write it, I'll post examples of the pages. I always use pictures. For examples of my "style", head on over to RDNA. I'm in the middle of Explorations of the Material Room, a tute on the basics of using Deep Paint (that I will get back to, I swear, lol), and a few minitutes scattered around. If it takes ten words to say it clearly, I'll take 10 words. And then I'll show you 3 pictures. Forums aren't the best ways to teach. My current income is derived from three sources right now, btw -- my store here, My partnership in Odd Ditty Foundry, and training CD's that I make (using Poser) for small retail shops (and now restaurants). That's the sum of it. Odds are I'll go with my CD format, which is very interactive and hands on.

Being as though I'm new to the program, and still a bit dumbfounded by it...ok dumbfounded a lot by it, sure why not. The only problem would be me getting some cash together, college textbooks really hurt the wallet.

It sounds like a very good idea, even though I don't do P5. I am still waiting on someone to write a good one for Poser 4 so I don't have to piece all these tidbits found online together.

Poser Artist is P4. So it'll do just as good for you. I promise :) And I won't let it bury you under P5 stuff until you get there.

As it is Market research for a product. Shoshanna ps. I'd buy it:-)

I'll add I want detailed & I do mean detailed explanations of all that node crap/shaders/gradient stuffs/mat room & hair room.

I'd buy !! :-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=317656

I remember that one! In fact, it wa the chapter titles you suggested that stick it in my head. lol Thanks for the link back!

Poser Artist is P4. So it'll do just as good for you. I promise :)<< In that case sign me up for a copy!

The thing about a really good poser 5 manual is that it would need to have a lot of the poser 4 stuff in it too for real beginners.

absolutely, Xantor. I'm aiming it at users of Poser Artist and Poser 5, which are the two versions of Poser currently available (ProPack is an add-on, more or less, to P4). Poser artist is Poser 4.03 with a name change. The major functions of ProPack are included in Poser 5 (the one notable exception being the exporters). So, by going that route, I pretty much will hit on everything except the export functions of ProPack (and since I have it myself still, I may throw them in just 'cause, lol). The question I have now is can I keep my Target? The outline for it is pretty intense. On the other hand, I do have the "Congratulations...now chew your way through the protective seals and open the box..." chapter done....

http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26266 hmmmm.... Must write faster....

More books is fine. The more material, the better one can mentally digest and more oppurtunities for "EUREKA!" moments.

ynsaen the other book will be different from yours it is telling people how to use it by examples. By the way, I think that most of the propack stuff including exporters is in p5 so you might have to write about them too. Your book will be the best, if you send me a free copy that is ;)

Message edited on: 06/27/2004 18:07

LOL!!!!

ynsaen someone mentioned that you would be better to do a poser 6 manual, the poser 6 manual will be written by someone "in house" so you wouldn`t be able to do that anyway. Of course if the first manual you do is successful then you could probably do a poser 6 manual later.

The manual I am writing is pretty much planned as a digitial file, hon, that can be printed. Since it's a digital file, and I will have the source docs used to create it, an expansion and addendum for P6 is exceedingly easy to create either before or after release of P6 and this is further aided by the nature of the P6 release, which will not introduce any significantly new features to the existing P5 code (though some will be introduced).

I expected it to be digital, send mine to me on a cd ;) Poser 6 may have enough new things to warrant a new manual.