Hello, I know that this question should actually belong in the copyright forum, but I never go there, and it is Poser/Vue specific enough so excuse me if it doesn't belong here. I want to know what the legal implications would be of the following: Let's say I start a company or one-man business offering animation render farm services to Poser and Vue customers. This would entail the customer sending me the PZ3 and Vue file, with all the textures, models, etc. I would then render the scenes at the customers specified size and resolution, and mail that back to the customer. This would justify the money I would spend on building a 25 PC render farm and investing in the licence. The only problem would be that the customer would legally not be allowed to send me the models, textures, etc. or I would have to buy every model and texture that the customer uses, which I would have to build into the rendering price, and which I may never need for myself. I think there may be a small market for this, because all the customer would have to do is animate, and not have to concern himself with how long it is going to take to render his animations. I am thinking of customers doing small commercial works, like adverts or music videos, not entire movies. Can anyone think of a way around the legal hassle of distributing models, and do you think there would be a small market for this? I am not looking at making a living off this, just enough to pay for the render farm.

Well im not an expert on this but i dont think theres is a "big market" for this, my advice for you is to post this in the copyright forum, they are very friendly people and will be glad to help you. They have answered a question of mine.

Ok, first the copyright laws can differ from country to country so there is probably not an overall answer to that. What you describe has a complete analogy in the graphic/design market. The pre-production for print. Design agencies create files with copyrighted fonts and/or images. So it maybe is an idea to go to a printer (or design agency) next to you and ask there. They know exactly how they deal with it. I think it shouldn't be a problem as long as you can guarantee that you don't use the things you get for your own business. I see another problem in this business idea. The problem how these data come to you you want to render. When i look at my Vue files, they are normally so big that they can't be sent via email or ftp loadup. So they need to be sent by post. That means two days (to and back) minimum. And especially the clients you look for may not have this extra time. OR, you concentrate on the regional market around you. Then there is the question wether that is big enough. I used a service like that 3 times in my business life (so far). Long long ago of course. We are a German based company. #1. The render service was in Ireland. We lost the client because the courier was not in time (strike on an airport) AND, we then realized that there were bugs in the rendered video. #2 I had to fly to London finally to be able to set up everything correctly so that we are able to reach the deadline. Not much profit on this job because of the extra travel costs. #3 The rendering was so long - you never know exactly how long it will be beforehand - so that the costs exploded. Render times you pay per time frame.Not a profit, a loss was the result of this job.

Wabe, I agree with you that there are dangers in this sort of business. The sort of target market I want to go for are the semi-profesional people, not high level comapnies on tight deadlines. I don't intend to make a living off this, just some extra cash to help pay for the renderfarm and to justify the expense to myself, lol. And I don't want to do this full time. I am an animator, so I need the render farm for myself, but I will obviously not use it all the time, so when I am not using it there is no reason I can't let someone else use it. I am sure there must be many paople on this site that have wanted to do something and have cancelled the idea/project because they would not have the processing power to render it in a reasonable timeframe. I got offered seven commercial jobs in May, and I had to turn down four of them because I knew I wouldn't be able to render the amount of video material in three months, even with my five PC render farm. Anyway, it's just an idea at this stage.

My experiences go back till the late 80s of last century. So the thing may have changed. And indeed, beside some headache maybe you have not much to lose anyway. Another idea is to do a research how many companies offer a service like that. Any answer that comes out of it has a reason. I know exactly how this is, when you have to say send a client away only because of technical problems. I hope they come back to you. Good that i am not in this business anymore and back to the slow end print design.

Hi,

Put this question to Curious Labs and/or Daz and/or whoever makes Vue for their comment.

You would need to clarify what renderer/software you are using.
I once looked at render farms and the feasibility of doing work for high level hobbyists but found after the hardware costs, software costs, problems of differences in the renders between processors and copyright issues the fees had to be too high. I have gotten quotes for rendering a couple of animation projects I was offered and the commercial render farm charges just made it too costly.

Message edited on: 07/02/2004 11:07

Like wabe I go back to the pioneer days of PCs; and like him I know you can always spot pioneers by the arrows in their backs. Your online market may be more limited than you think if you intend to subsidize your investment to any extent. In addition to just finding clients you'll find yourself dealing with contracts with tricky clauses, performance bonds, corporate licensing, and a whole plethora of things you didn't expect that cost you more money. Just as we meshers have learned that selling to Poser folks at Poser prices is more effective than the few who'll buy at TurboSquid, I believe you'll find the much fewer who animate a hard market when so many potential clients are already doing such in-house. ..As you'll likely find less time to do your own thing, I'd scale back to what works for your own needs and enjoy the ride. If you still want to make some cash from it, work on 'proof' reels (or keyframe stills) and get local companies to buy your stuff to use in local tv ads etc..

OK, it seems like there isn't much of a market for this. I am going to go ahead and build myself a 25 PC render farm anyway, just that it's going to take about 2 years without making money off it in some other way. Thanks for the advice, good ideas aren't always practicle. And practicle ideas aren't always good.

but its always good when practicle ideas put into process are shared with like-minded people! .. let us know the details of creation once you're up and farming will you?

Update: I have blanket permission from DAZ to use any of their models that a customer sends me once my business is up and running. The only condition being that I delete the files after the project is complete. I will try to get blanket permission from Renderosity and other sites once the business is registered. Maybe not such an impractical idea after all.