Just a follow on fromt the recent discussion re the new C4 upgrade. I would be cool if eovia was able to do a pick n mix type of UG option, I for one own C3, Amapi 7 and Transposer but to get blurred reflections etc I need to get Amapi 7 and transposer again, just a waist of money, Id prefer to get V4 with the all the blur options and Vectorstyle, mabey even a package that would include amapi 7 PRO. It just dosent make any sense the ug options for us owner of Amapi 7 and Transposer of which I imagine their are quite a few. Pete Hope some one from Eovia monitors this forum.

Heck, I sent them an email expressing displeasure at the way the upgrade and the announcement of C4 treats existing users. Got a nice email back today, but it didn't offer much -- The Eovia rep mentions that that the "regularly scheduled newsletter" hasn't been sent out yet, which is why everybody BUT the existing users of C3/Amapi were told C4 was coming out. He also repeats that the upgrade from C3 to C4 "pro" is cheaper than buying C3 right now with the free upgrade to C4 (whether "pro" or "lite," I don't recall.) This is correct; two-hundred something versus four-hundred something. But it doesn't address that it is still two-hundred something whether you own C2, or C3 plus Amapi plus Transposer. He had nothing to say to my opinion that the "Pro"/"Lite" division was an artificial distinction made just for marketing -- and that there was little in the "pro" version to earn it that title. We've addressed this in a previous thread; after the C1-C2 jump (sub-D surfaces, GI render engine,) and the C2-C3 jump (UVmapper, Tree generator, HDRI), the C3-C4 jump is....blurry reflections? We were expecting at least a full-blown particle system (or something equally cool.) And not a word on whether they've done the bug fixes we've been harping on here. Seems to me that Eovia is giving up on several aspects of the program to concentrate on others -- on, it seems, rendering for commercial use and web use. The sole "upgrade" in the modelling functions of C4 is "We now give you the full version of Amapi instead of a cut-down one." Their apparent responce to the lousy manual is "If you are among the first hundred people buying we'll send you a better manual written by an outsider."

To be fair there is more than just blurry reflections, what about Network rendering,Sound , Bvh and fbx importing,motion blur, some sort of new IK tool,new terrain and sky (or improved). I agree new particle system would have been nice and who knows maybe they will surprise us with it , but even so I think Network rendering is a big ticket item .Along with the plugins(transCad and poser) and amapi 7 this is a very nice upgrade. Just my 2 cents. Mike

I am in the same boat as pixelmouse. I already have bought Amapi 7, and transPoser. I don't need them in the upgrade. They have absolutely no value for me; so why do I have to get them again? It would be nice if Eovia would offer other upgrade options/price for those that already have spent their money on these items. I'm not asking for the price to be cut by the amount we already spent, but it would seem fair if they offered a $50.00 discount for each of those items if already bought. Then ship the Pro version without those items.

To be really fair, it is too early to know what C4 is offering. There's a couple screenshots of the new terrain thingy, and a few words on what they did with IK; not enough to really tell what is going on. Plus there isn't enough detail yet to see if there is a good bug fix and feature-tweak. BTW, I can see how sound would be very useful for traditional animation. As an amatuer composer/sound designer I tend to work the other way, and all my sequencers have a QuickTime window already. So the sound stuff didn't enter into my personal equation, sorry.

i used to like poser when it was easy to use...lol...now i just dont get into it as much as i did...i think itd have been better if they upped their animation tools and made them better, esp character tools, then heck...theyve got transposer...we can import whatever figure from Poser...just make rigging a lil easier maybe, if thats possible... we could set our stuff up in poser and transpose it to C...there are too many freaking programs that specilize and dont give a really good solution..i dont want to screw with poser anymore..i dont want to have to buy mimic to be able to easily make my figures talk..and then i shouldnt have to also buy transposer to get my stuff into another program..especially since once its there i cant do anything with the figure really... network rendering is the big thing i think in this upgrade, but crap that could have been a 3.5 addition or another plugin..or better yet..something that should have been to begin with... ok im done ranting..lol

I sure hope they've fixed atleast some of the bugs instead of trying to create new buggy features. Still we have pre-ordered C4. If it still has some of the most annoying bugs I'm going to write a long letter to Eovia. Like it would make any difference.

Guys, you don't HAVE to upgrade if you don't want, really ... : ) If you already have Amapi and Transposer then you don't really have to buy it. You can fake blury reflections and motion blur with Photoshop or AfterEffects... : ) How many independent designers own more than 1-2 computers to make the network rendering work ..? If I could go back on time I would have skipped and not upgraded version 2 The visible light cone antialiasing bug was fixed in 3 as well as the GI render (it was too slow for real work on version 2). Now the GI render and HDRI are great! The animations paths seem to work now (after 4 versions...) but I've given up on them a long time ago and use another software for animations. In my opinion, Good Carrara versions have been 1 - 3 (and I'm guessing 5) But that's just me. I use it mostly for stills. By the way, the EPS import is great also ( to make 3d extrude logos). One of the easiest to use in the 3d world (and I tried a lot...) and the bevel option in 3 is a nice addition. So for me version 3 is more than enough for my needs. Just my opinion, again (and my personal needs). Good luck all fjv

The animation bits are what im looking forward too most...and had thought version 4 was going to be geared more toward animation...

i cant see using Photoshop for animation work...doing it frame by frame?..oy..and i dont own Aftereffects...yet..ive heard its a good application, im thinking itll come in handy for compositing..

i havent really used Amapi..and poser has just put a sour taste in my mouth that buying Transposer makes me wince...

as for the network rendering..heck..anything thatll speed things up is worth it...:)..and with computers as inexpensive as they can be and upgrading equipment, the network rendering just may mak it worth keeping that old computer plugged in somewhere just for its resources..we'll be able to have 5 additionals now with the rendering... ill bitch and groan about it, but in the end will probably go ahead and upgrade instead of buying and trying to learn something new...lol..theyre counting on the lazy among us..:)

Message edited on: 09/10/2004 13:31

I'll upgrade. I just hope the deal will still be there when some money arrives in my bank account!

Listen up guys, Some of you used RDS and you know what it was like when it was sold to Metacreations from Fractal Design and then to Eovia. Get the clue, they put special price on C4Pro with all packages in it for $200 or $400. They really want to sell it to keep their business going. I bought TransPoser because I like it and I won't mind to buy upgrade to C4Pro at full price if it already have TransPoser or Amapi because I contributed my money to what Eovia asked for to keep their team running for next development. We invested in Eovia and they invested in us. I own other highend softwares and I never liked them. They are not very productive like Carrara. IT is easy fast and productive!!!

Hrm. I did the pre-release beta for C3 and was very happy I did so. But this one, buying pre-release doesn't give you a beta, doesn't save you any money -- at best you get a T-shirt. Not much incentive. That said, I am going for the upgrade eventually as there are tools I could use ....but not before some more contract work shows up around here! :(