I have a little problem with a friend of mine - a member of rendo, too - I'm talking about Lary... On my last post ('04.09.12) he said that my post is not photography and I really want to clarify that because it's bothering me when people just talk and they haven't got a clue what are they talking about... Although, on my anterior post I've just said that is democracy and everybody can say anything, still.... So, this is just a photo with a very simple postwork in Photoshop - as avalonfaayre already pointed I've used polarization... I think the answer is obviuosly what I think, but maybe I'm wrong; please clarify this little problem and tell me what do you think...Respectfully, Mihai.

I do not believe the comment was intended to be offensive, but perhaps I am missing something in the translation: "Happy Birthday Rachel!!!!! Nice abstract!!! asta nu e fotografie pretene... " Our interpretation of "Photography" is continually evolving. The Rules at the top of the Gallery state: "This gallery is for Renderosity members to display their original photographs for review, critique and feedback from other Renderosity members. Please use your judgement when uploading photo manipulations and photographs that have been heavily changed. Images containing 2D elements, stock photography or 3D elements should be uploaded to the Mixed Medium or 2D galleries." In my opinion, it is correct to call this a Photograph. Happy Birthday, Rachel.

Thank you very much for your reply, Misha - your opinion is important as long as you're one of the moderators of the photography section... Of course, you're missing smth in the translation because the last part is in our language and means exactly: "this is not photography friend" and he is sure that is not a photography - that is bothering me!!!! As everybody can see this is a photography and without any doubt can be uploaded in Photography section. As I already specify Lary is one of my friends and I didn't think about an offence, but I really don't like when somebody doens't know what is talking about. Respectfully, Mihai.

Don't sweat it too much Mihai... there are people who feel that if it's been manipulated in any way then it is no longer a photograph in the "pure" sense of what photography is.... There are people who still think that digital is not real photography too.... are they right or wrong? Does it really matter? Just as we each have ideas about what art is, so we do about what photography is.... and each idea is different... I can see the photo in this manipulation... I see some of it has been kalaidescoped and swirled a bit, but I still see the photo.... Photographically based artwork in my mind.... and still very much at home in the photo gallery....

"There are people who still think that digital is not real photography too.... are they right or wrong?" They are wrong, of course...Even I'm an adept of classic-film-based-photography and I use very rarely a digital(maybe because I know too well my old camera) how can somebody say that the result of a digital camera is not a photography? Are the emotions expressed in a better way on a film rather than on a card? I really don't think so...We have to be progressive in our way of seeing things, but you have to have all the knowledges to do that - when you are just stubborn and you don't want to be open-minded, you loose the contact with the real world...I guess I have to ask myself that question, Michelle: does it really matter? I guess,it doesn't...

Q. "There are people who still think that digital is not real photography too.... are they right or wrong?" A. "They are wrong, of course..." Yes for me and for you.... but for them we are wrong.... see? :~) To each his own has always been my feeling, in all things.... I'll going on doing what I believe and they will go on doing what they believe.... even though it would be nice if everyone could be open-minded... that just isn't the human way of doing anything....

Your image is 100% photography...just manipulated, but photography nonetheless. I know some people who don't even consider photography an art!!!! :( TV

I have now been taking photographs for over 50 years( ho hum, I know!) and this sort of argument has always been around. Retouching, enlarger image manipulation, multi exposure images, intentional reticulation, polaroid use, all of these and others have been in contention by some. But many have used these tools and methods for the enjoyment and challenges they can give. I am sure your friend is quite sure he knows what he is talking about, and you are not likely to change his views, so f... em! As Michelle A says " does it really matter". Enjoy, mate!

Sorry Mikan!!! U are very bad man...this is a revenge? Think more about this... About your photo: 100% photo composition (2D abstract and more postwork in this image)...but I like it, why this subject on the forum? Mikan...u are a very strange man...but a very good photograph and spokeman too (is an atu for u) I tell u my comment in our language...why this upset?

Don't want to argue anymore, but how in the hell is this 2D abstract? Hmmmm!!! Mihai

I tell you again...I like this image, very beautiful...I am refer the including section for your image ... and I make an confusion...and u...booom and flash and ironic words... no more comments!

WOW! OK! If it was taken with a camera (digital or film) it is photography, postwork can be done in the darkroom as well as on a computer and it is still photography imo. If Chelle and Misha said it then it must be true. Myself being a purist at one point has decidedly opened her mind and eyes only to see that postwork, done on a computer or in a darkroom is just the manipulation of a photo. It does not change the fact that it is still a photo. Digital images not being photography? Let's see I have a digital CAMERA and it produces IMAGES. Some people really have a problem letting go of the "old school" and accepting the advancement of the technological age. Like they said above, does it really matter? Sometimes my mind is so open it is hard to close it. Have a wonderful day! Brenda :)

The most important thing here is what Snowbain says...and now I am CONVINCED that there is SOMEONE OLDER Than Me!!! I mainly "post" in Photography, and all My Own Photos, out of My Cameras...then jumble them up with PotatoShop...makes ME Happy....and that is the main thing :} As for a difference of Opinion ...I borrow these Lyrics: "Try to see it my way, Do I have to keep on talking till I cant go on? While you see it your way, Run the risk of knowing that our love may soon be gone. We can work it out" ... Courtesy...the Beatles....and...I am doing Head Stands,knowing Snowbain has been taking Photos for 50 Years, and I have only been doing it for 2 Years....goo goo...I am off to suck My Thumb :]

Hmm, Lary, I don't know where did you saw my ironic part, but I was God damn serious this time 'cause I don't like people steping on my nerves... And I agree with you Tedz about snowbain - he looks more experienced than he appears to be and that's why his opinion really does matter... Thank you for commenting on this subject: it's a real pitty that Lary doesn't understand that I do not disagree with the man, I disagree with what he said - and after all your comments he really doesn't have a clue why did I post here this issue....TO CLARIFY, MAN, TO CLARIFY!!! Read others members opinions posted here....But seems that you really do not undestand the answer...is just a God damn photo and that's all...If you like it or not - is not my bussinesssss (everyone has his own taste when it comes of photos or anything else)- ..So read the lines and definitions of genres....Have a great day! Respecfully, Mihai.

Again...sorry for confusion...I am in minority and I understand your comments. I will tell you again....NOT OFFENSIVE COMMENT just an opinion for one image...what a hell... Mikan (Mihai) is my friend and my neighbour, and I am amaized of his reaction. Agree with: Tedz, Nilla, tvercnuccio, Michelle A., Misha883...yes is a photography postwork...what can I say Thanks!

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Well... in finaly is a phography, but is very modified and look very strange for a photography... You make this postwork in photoshop and 3D program...and this is not good for a photograph artist...because look to litle photography. So... i say... the true is.. 50% for Lary and 50% for you! Sorry...is my opinion... :) PS: Mihai... chiar daca te superi sa stii ca nu ai procedat deloc bine atacand in modul asta chiar un co-national, puteai sa vb in particular dar nu asa... si asta m-a deranjat si pe mine putin, mai ales ca m-am uitat mult mai bine acum la postworkul tau si am observat intr-adevar ca este foarte denaturata pentru o fotografie, mai ales ca se vede si ceva 3D in ea. PS: Tin sa-ti mai spun ca esti un fotograf bun si de aceea te am la favoriti, dar asta nu inseamna ca esti cel mai bun sau ceva de genul asta.

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No offensive.
But, this is an art work using photo in my opinion.

Please...stop this comments!!! Mihai si Gaby: nu are rost sa va certati acum...ce naiba, parca suntem la piata, dupa cum se stie fiecare are dreptul la parerea lui, asa ca pls stop this subject! Have a good day!!! Be cool! ;)

@GabyS - I don't think about me as a good photographer (you will never hear that from me!)- I'm just a photographer and that's all!!!!! You better think that I've explained to Lary about that photo - and NOW I HAVE TO REPEAT WHAT I'VE SAID BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT YOU READ BETWEEN THE LINES - but since he didn't understand I thought - I COULD CLARIFY THAT IN A PHOTO FORUM (THAT'S WHY SOMEBODY INVENTED A FORUM) AND SINCE THIS PHOTO WAS POSTED HERE @ RENDO, OF COURSE I'VE POSTED MY PROBLEM ON RENDO FORUM... As far as I'm concern it is normal for you to have (almost)the same opinion as Lary does (being his brother), so I don't want to argue with you, too... @Lary - I'm sorry for you that you didn't realise that it is not any kind of war and I DIDN'T TAKE YOUR COMMENT AS AN OFFENSIVE ONE - please stop repeat that; NO, NO, NO - BUT AS YOU CAN SEE I EXPECTED SOME COMMENTS FROM EXPERIENCED PEOPLE KNOWING THAT I'M NOT SO EXPERIENCED IN PHOTGRAPHY... And I'm sorry again that you and do not realize that when you look at the picture your eyes sees a flower that is obviously photographed and after that you see something that adds a little something to this flower in order to make a beautiful presentation for a birthday present... Mihai

OK folks! :~) I really wish I could understand half of what is being said here. But I'm getting the feeling that both sides would like it to be over. So with that I'm going to lock this thread. I just feel it would be for the best. I think the safe thing would just be that we all agree to disagree and leave it at that?