I ran into a problem at a local community college, Montgomery College, in houston texas. I use the schools Extended Learning Center, which is used for research by students, almost all of which above 18 yrs of age, and do so as not to take the chance that kids will see a V3 thumbnail in a teddie in the local library. I use the public ficilites because I don't have high speed, and I am researching for freebee stuff and cost effective stuff... I'm poor and trying to get an art protfoilo ready for grad school. I'm looking for props and clothes, all of it G rated, and I not playing games in the place, I'm trying to advance my printmaking education. I was told by an employee "To get off the computer, and meet him outside," then handed a sheet of paper and informed me " This is the College Districts policy on downloading pornography."... I came close to taking the assholes head off, but left, and can't wait to move away from this Graceless, Colorless, Hell Hole! Has anyone elese had such encounters? James McLoughlin

Wow that's a new one. Porn huh? Weird....I wish I could say something smart right here, but this one has me at a loss wow. I would have wanted to take his head off too but if he was thinking he was following policy I guess it's not his fault either, just stupidity and ignorance about porn and 3d art tools I guess.....hmmm odd for sure. Are you still allowed to use the library? Can you maybe talk to someone higher up about this? Best of luck to you.

The definition of porn is a community standard, so they can define it any way they choose. There's alot of nudity here, so maybe that's what they saw, and they call it porn. I don't call it porn, because I know it's a natural part of Poser, but I wouldn't force anybody to look at it, if it freaks them out. But you guys have a serious anger management problem if you want to take somebody's head off for something that trivial. So what if they don't let you view this site on their computers? Just do it somewhere that's more tolerant.

Even when you have no nudity selected in your member preferences, some things slip by. And some of it is equal to the type of photos you see in Playboy which, by my standard, is erotica, but by others porn.

There is an overabundance of huge boobs, provocative poses and sexy looks, and clothing that barely covers the essentials. The marketplace is filled with bondage, S&M, handcuffs, strange pieces of equipment, and barely-there clothing items. Advertisements brag about adding this or that for your rendering pleasure. LOL ... I'm not surprised that some can have the impression of this being a porn site.

And yes, one day when I was at work, I checked on a message reply here, just as someone was walking into my office. I got a "What the heck kind of site are you looking at?" and that was just from the banner that was at the top of the page. And because I was working on a shared computer, the remark was followed by "I hope you logged me off and you're signed in with your login and not mine."

Just because we think it's art doesn't mean the rest of the world does. I haven't browsed from work since then

Message edited on: 09/22/2004 00:44

Trivial? I'm not entirely sure impeding the flow of legitimate information, especially at a so-called educational institution, is all that trivial ... And if nudity on Renderosity qualifies as porn, then so does the Song of Solomon. Fight back.

yeah .. i encounter the same kinda attitude. because of this i just didn't go on to this site while in class at college, or show anyone from my classes this site. i didn't feel like explaining it to them what i was doing on this site.

Sigh. This discussion has showed many times before, and it always follows the same pattern. First, someone mentions being harrassed by the mundanes over what they thought they saw during a visit to Renderosity. Then fifteen hundred people jump on the thread talking about how nudity isn't pornographic and people should just grow up. The original poster or someone else who has a legitimate problem posts again, explains ever-so-carefully that THEY have no issue with anything they've seen, but that their boss/neighbor/significant other/kid/cat jumped all over them about it. At which point a contingent of people with home T1 lines and dual 460" monitors jump up and start sneering that THEY don't have to worry about visiting Renderosity from a public library or workspace, and everyone should just be like them. I'm sick of it. Rant away, but nothing new will get said, and nothing will ever be changed.

Art8boi: if its an important issue to you, you should challenge it. Nothing ever gets changed if no one is willing to challenge it. But be tactful. If I were you, and this issue was important to me, then instead of confronting the guy that made you get off the computer and gave you that written notice about the school's policy on pornography, go above his head. You did refer to him as "an employee" but you didn't say whether it was a professor, the dean, head of school or library, etc. So, I would go to who ever is in charge of the library and explain to them what you explained to us. Tell them what Poser is, what Renderosity is, and why/how you are trying to build a portfolio. Show them the Curious Labs, Daz3d and Renderosity websites if it helps. If you show them what you're doing, then they might not be so ready to accuse you of downloading porn. Hopefully you'll be lucky enough to talk to somebody with a fairly open mind about things like this, and who knows that there is a difference between pornography and nudity as art. Maybe you could even get your art instructor to hear your case first. And, if someone with the authority to make decisions there has a notion to side with you at least partially, maybe you could agree with them to allow you to continue your project on the computers durring off hours, when the library might not be so full of other "impressionable children" and close-minded instructors. And if that doesn't work, try the public library (if they don't charge you for use of the computers. Some do some dont).

L Can I please have one of those 460" monitors? And a T1? I kinda agree though, some of the banners here LOOK like porn banners to outsiders. And while I have no problem with them, I do see how it can be percieved by others. Heck I even had my HUBBY ask me one day what I was looking at (I think he got a little dissapointed when it WASN'T porn btw ROFL) I browse from work too (right now as a matter of fact) but I do clear out my history and cache... just in case... But then I look at other Poser sites than this one too ;o)

Renderosity is in a list of sites that are being blocked from library access in Phoenix, Arizona, under a recent city statute that even the ACLU isn't sure they'll be able to stop. The reason for it is not the naked pictures, oddly enough. It is solely based on the "adult" product offerings in the marketplace (all that erotica and bondage stuffs) that the site's filters do not block even when you are not a member. Based on that, and that alone, the site is classified as an adult site. Now, before anyone says Phoenix is full of prudes, bear in mind that 90% of the people currently in Phoenix came from somewhere else in the country, and that Phoenix is used heavily as a test market because it tends to represent the general public better. The standard also lists other sites, such as renderotica, and again is based on "adult content", not nudity, per se. I only mention this to point out that the viewpoints of many artists are in the minority.

Poser users didn't land on Plymouth Rock... Plymouth Rock landed on Poser Users!

[i]But you guys have a serious anger management problem if you want to take somebody's head off for something that trivial. So what if they don't let you view this site on their computers? Just do it somewhere that's more tolerant.[/i] Actually... I think it's not as "trivial" as you portray it. Being accused of surfing pornography isn't neccessarily trivial... it can cost you access to a library, your job... or even your family. He had a legitimate reason to feel angry. We all feel angry when falsely accused. He didn't kill anyone or hurt them, so the point you make is rather moot. He DID manage his anger. Remember... anger is an emotion. We can't help how we FEEL. We can help how we channel the emotion. And he walked away... kudos!

Sounds to me like the classic case of "jumping to conclusions" or getting into something half way through the story. If you don't know the full story, then you're probably not understanding what is really going on. It's cases like this where people need to stop and say "okay what exactly is this etc..." people who accuse drive me nuts, espeically if they don't even know the details or the full story. Makes ya mad! But don't worry too much, you know it's not Porn and what you know is all that matters. everyone elese's thoughts are pure poo poo :O)

It is solely based on the "adult" product offerings in the marketplace (all that erotica and bondage stuffs) that the site's filters do not block even when you are not a member Does it make sense that what's not OK for the gallery or forums IS okay for the store?

oh did you explain to him what it is??? I would have been told him to troddle back and give him the info on what you were looking at.---Essie

The problem is, if their first impression is that it is a porn site, no amount of explaining will change that impression. Plain and simple - Renderosity might itself not be a porn site, but because it sells "adult oriented" art items that can be used to make porn there is a very fine line there.

I have to respond to mateo_sancarlos "anger management" comment: He (art8boi) managed his anger quite well, thank you. We all get angry, it's part of being human. What we do with that anger, how we respond to it, determines whether we are civilized (real definition) or not. Yes, I'd have wanted to take his head off, too, along with the almost certainly narrow minded, bigoted, anti-naturalistic jackasses who formulated the policy in a knee-jerk reaction to a non-problem. BUT HE DIDN'T, AND I WON'T, in spite of the fact that I have the ability, training, skill, and, frankly, strong inclination to do so. Why? because I am truly civilized. I, and art8boi, choose to control our response to provocation. The poor sap who confronted him thought he/she was doing the right thing. NOBODY ever sees themselves as the "bad guy" unless they are seriously ill. Even the fictional Hannibal Lector did not.

Absence of ability is not virtue. Ability and abstinence is. Civilization consists, solely, of the ability to kill, and the will to refrain from killing, today. Maybe tomorrow, but not today.

Art8boi, way to go, bro'! Several people have given you some good advice on what to do with the situation, though you hardly seem to need it! Heed it! But don't expect to succeed. You are fighting fear, and fear needs to be confronted and fought, whether in yourself or in others. Just don't expect to win, except within yourself.

All people feel fear and anger. But in whole people, fear and anger have no dominion.

Are there any net cafe's in your area? Are sites like renderosity banned from there too? For us to be such a free country, (the U.S. that is), censorship sure does run rampant.

Does it make sense that what's not OK for the gallery >or forums IS okay for the store? Of course... in the store, it makes them money. =) Sorry... had to throw the capitalistic comment in there!

Triarius - very well said and echoed :) :)

If anyone thinks that the US has problems with porn, then they should try China -- where running a porn site can get you executed.

Yes.....Renderosity is considered to be a "porn site" by some.

I've worked at businesses where there was always an "official IT snoop" looking over your virtual shoulder -- watching your every move online.

At those places, Renderosity was a no-no.

At the moment, I am not working at an office where that's a problem.

Like it or not, you just have to deal with the issue as you find it.

When you don't own the PC or the network or the internet connection -- then you have to play the game by the rules of those who do own them. And if the owners say "you can't visit Renderosity on our equipment" -- then: you can't.

Rant 'n rave about it all that you like. It won't do you any good.

Find a place where it isn't a problem, or else buy your own equipment.

Under these circumstances -- those are your only realistic choices. Otherwise, get used to not having access.

Bringing in someone from the art faculty sounds like the best idea, but don't be surprised if they'd rather not get involved. No one is too keen on defending "porn," even if it's only porn in the jaundiced view of someone else. In the drone's defense, he may have just been covering his butt. There well may have been a previous incident where someone was surfing real or imaginary porn and he received orders not to let it happen again. I doubt seriously that the staff has been given any objective guidelines on what constitutes forbidden filth and if they were, it was probably "any pitchers a nekkid wimmens." Hailing from the Great Satan myself, I'd like to say that Texas is in often more backward, ignorant and generally intolerant on these issues than the rest of the country (OK, it is,) but really, I think anywhere you go these days you're liable to face the same problem. This is especially going to be the case at a local educational institution that probably receives tax dollars. All it takes is one righteous citizen to complain to the city council, county supervisors, etc. about their tax money being used to pay for pornography and the admins will fall over themselves to do their bidding. I'd be pissed too and I hope you can get it reversed but I'm afraid it's probably the wrong time and the wrong place to win this one. Try to wrangle a European exchange deal pardner. Yee hah.

"Rant 'n rave about it all that you like. It won't do you any good." Ranting and Raving are what children do to get their way. Raising logical counter-points against a particular presumptuous point of view is what adults do to enlighten the misinformed. Are you saying people shouldn't at LEAST make an attempt to clear their name by intelligently explaining their opposing point of view to the powers that be? I should hope not. I'd hate to think everyone should just accept what the misguided masses choose to impose upon them. Just letting everything go because you don't believe voicing an opinion will change anything is a BIG problem in this country (US). The majority rules because the "minority" doesn't speak up. I'm not saying one should start a riot just to get their way, but if you can intelligently and articulately counterpoint the popular view, and possibly enlighten a few people, then by all means, DO IT. Sometimes people's minds get made up prematurely, and it could just be that they saw one banner of a scantily clad Poser figure, then jumped to conclusions that this is an adult oriented website overall. ASK questions and propose counter-points. Debate doesn't kill people. Change doesn't happen by rolling over and taking your medicine.

voicing an opinion will change anything is a BIG problem in this country

Trust me, "voicing an opinion" has never been a problem for me.

However -- over the years I've also begun to learn the difference between clearly stating my point of view -- and a waste of one's resources. Throwing good money after bad.

If someone considers this issue to be worth their time & effort -- then by all means: keep banging your head against the red brick wall.

Eventually, one might reach the conclusion that it hurts, and that the wall is no closer to falling over than when you started.

This particular crusade is one that won't garner much (if any) sympathy from the general public. In some workplaces, it might even get you canned.

Go ahead and try it if you like.

But my advice would be to find more productive ways to spend your time.

"Ranting and raving" HERE doesn't do much. I said absolutely nothing about how art8boi should proceed -- I did not even mention him or his experience directly. That said, I was surprised and pleased to see a couple of thoughtful suggestions directed to art8boi. That is new in this type of thread. I believe it is because we have an actual test case with known facts to discuss, not a hypothetical "If I visited Rendo from work my boss would be angry." So congrats. More carbs, less fat, on this trip through a very old subject.

"And if the owners say..." True, for a private concern. This is a community college, subsidized by John Q. Public. Everyone in the community has a right to a say in how that equipment is used and what is permissible. We've come a long way from people pledging their lives, fortunes and sacred honor for liberty, to reach today's state of servile acquiescence that passes for democracy. "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning." -- Frederick Douglass"

At least a half dozen members here have previously mentioned they are also from Montgomery/Walker counties TX, and quite a few more from Houston (40 mi. So.). If you need some help establishing actual "community standards" give us a holler.

"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning."
-- Frederick Douglass"

Interesting quotation.

It's a good example of that peculiar class of "famous thoughts" that can be used to justify anything.

Go ahead -- give it a shot. Agitate away. It's your nickel. Message edited on: 09/22/2004 16:36

Dude, that's what you get for doing anything not "socially acceptable" in the Woodlands, you should transfer up to Sam Houston State Univ. here in Huntsville man, they don't say anything about what you do as long as your not specifically caught using p2p. No problems using Daz, rosity, the other r site, poserpros, or any site at all.

Even though it's a public entity they have the right to say how the equipment is used. We do not allow people to use our library computers to play games or write emails it is clearly written on the computers. Students still do that though. If a student is waiting to use a computer, an aid will walk around looking for someone that is doing non research type work and they will kindly give them da boot. You may pay tuition and fees but the skool itself has to have rules that determine use of it's facilities and equipment. You can take this up with your College VP for Student Affairs or maybe take this to your College Newspaper. Talk to or write to the Director of the Library or the Head of Reference. They might be able to tell you what they thought you were doing wrong if anything.

Given that your original problem stems from not wanting kiddies to see 'porno' thumbnails in the local library and guessing that you have dialup at home one solution would be to research which freebies you want to download on the dialup then go to the library disable displaying pictures in the IE toolbar and search and download to your hearts content knowing that no images will be available to view. Just a suggestion mind you. It avoids the problems you mentioned and reduces the likelyhood of a repeat perfromance at the library....

<<--If someone considers this issue to be worth their time & effort -- then by all means: keep banging your head against the red brick wall.-->> I'd think that art8boi's situation is a little different than browsing sites at work. He seems to have an actual worth-while purpose for visiting sites like renderosity, that being, buiding a portfolio for grad school. If I were the one in charge of, lets say an office building, and I found one or more of my employees surfing the internet, for porn or art or anything other than the job that I'm paying them to do, then I would get on their case about it. It wouldn't matter what sites were being visited, if its not work-related then you have no business browsing the internet on the company's dime. In essence that's theft (of company time/money for personal business/activities/entertainment). In a school library setting, that's a bit different. He's paying to go there, which means his money pays for those computers in that library. On top of that, he's browsing these sites for an educational purpose. I would say that it IS worth his time and effort - and tuition, to an extent - to challenge it. Granted, he probably won't get very far from the sound of it. But he won't get anywhere if he doesn't at least try. If sites like renderosity are considered by schools for being porn then surely they don't have nude models in art classes there. That would be pornography too, wouldn't it? At least using the same logic. <<--everyone should just accept what the misguided masses choose to impose upon them-->> - Just look at washington.

if you find any say Rubins pics of naked ladies in the library you will, i hope, let them know so they can delete those books from the shelves. love esther

LOL esther! I was thinking the same thing. Does this mean that Michelangelo or Leonardo were the Larry Flint and Hugh Hefners of their day? If one looks at the majority of the images in the Poser gallery, 90% portray typical 'Sci-fi/Fantasy' artwork that can be seen gracing the covers of any typical book of this genre at your local book store. If I even thought for one second that this site was in anyway 'pornographic' I would never display my work here in a million years. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are all too quick to jump to conclusions. What next? burning artists at the stake in the village square for using a V3 in a bodysuit that suggests she has breasts? Oh the horror!

If you liked that quote,XENOPHONZ, here's another one for you. "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

Things are gettin' pretty high falutin' around here.......

If you'd like to equate the issue of having access to Renderosity on a community college's PC station with the American Revolution......go ahead.

;-)

inject humor on/

"Sex-ation without representation!" (James Otis)

"Don't fire until you see the tint of their areolas!" (William Prescott)

"I have but one pinup to give for my country!" (Nathan Hale)

/inject humor off

Message edited on: 09/23/2004 11:19

If I were the one in charge of, lets say an office building, and I found one or more of my employees surfing the internet, for porn or art or anything other than the job that I'm paying them to do, then I would get on their case about it. It wouldn't matter what sites were being visited, if its not work-related then you have no business browsing the internet on the company's dime. In essence that's theft (of company time/money for personal business/activities/entertainment).

I understand the justice behind that statement. And I agree with the right of a company to enforce such a policy.

However.....the following is a matter of personal observation.

Over the years, I've worked in some tightly-regulated office settings. Such offices tended to have strict, no-nonsense rules concerning matters like attendance, punctuality, nose-to-the-grindstone atmosphere....people assigned to "watch" others, to insure that they weren't goofing off.....oftentimes, there were self-appointed "enforcers of the rules" in the building.......etc, etc....

Tension was constantly in the air; inter-office politics ruled; people didn't look forward to going to work in the morning (even if the pay was good) -- the entire culture managed to be both militeristic and paternal at the same time.

Besides which -- many of these "strict environment" type companies ended up going down the 'ol tube, anyway. Their strictness didn't ultimately aid in keeping them afloat. Employees were constantly in fear of losing their jobs, or of ticking off the wrong person, or of breaking some rule or other.

By contrast:

I have also had the pleasure of working in "lassiez-faire" type office settings. The atmosphere was relaxed, people were happy -- and the job got done.

But most of all -- there isn't the overarching paranoia to rule everyone's life day in and day out.

In my book, that's worth a cut in pay.

What good is money, if you have to kill both yourself and others in the process of earning it? Message edited on: 09/23/2004 11:22

Er, I'm concerned about this too. I'm 18, and I really don't like the site filled with...um, that kind of material, you know? I turned on the filter for a reason, and the marketplace still looks like a site you wouldn't visit on a public computer. I'm using Poser for a digital comic strip, not...uh, "adult material!"

Well, as an aside, there are any number of digital and print comics these days that are definitely "adult material." The entire internet is a minefield if you're trying to avoid nude, near nude, provocatively posed flesh popping up on your monitor. Clicking on a result from even the most innocent Google search is liable to bring unintended results. To sanction someone for those lapses is like getting mad at your spouse because Jante Jackson's breast flashed while they were watching the Superbowl. Unfortunately, no filtering algorithm is perfect, much less capable of accounting for the individual nuances of what any one individual might want to see/avoid. If you're doing some legitimate work/school activity, then the people in charge either need to understand and accept the realities of the internet and the Poser world in particular or accept the fact that you can't use these sites to get your work done. Is it possible to tag and filter out every instance of nudity and suggestive content in the Marketplace? I suppose it is though heretofore, Renderosity has not deemed it worthwhile or necessary to do so. If it's just the thumbnails you object to then that's a legitimate point--how many people agree is open to question. Surely, however, you're not suggesting that beyond that click of no return, people not be able to see what they're buying? If it's a matter of being stuck without home internet access, I sympathize, been there, done that--and I don't think there's an entirely satisfactory answer to the problem. Sites like Animotions (dedicated to comics & such BTW) offer some PG rated alternatives. In general though, it's a little difficult to surf the 'net Poser universe without encountering anything that isn't going to raise the hackles of someone somewhere.