"Drac and The Bryster have shown that Bryce and Wings can do basically the same thing, even if the timescale is wildly different." Hmmm. I wouldn't go that far actually, because the modeling capacity of Bryce is rather primitive compared to what Wings (or any decent spline/sub-d modeling tool) can help you accomplish. Sure, given a talented boolean modeler like Bryster obviously is, many things are possible, but still many aren't... at least not to the same degree of ease and detail and flexibility. Organic modeling of any kind can be sort of difficult and unintuitive in Bryce, given you only have booleans, primitives, and metaballs to work with. For example, how would one go about "boolean" modeling a realistic human head/body in Bryce that is flexible enough for animation and morph acceptance? This is an example of something that can be done very well in Wings using sub-D box-modeling techniques, but not realistically possible in Bryce. ;-) Speaking from a strictly architectural point of view, however, Bryce is capable of modeling just about any structure, as Bryster has demonstrated.

I really don't want to vote on this, the end results are both so good, Bryster's is more accurate, but took longer and it sounds like he had better reference mat. In my view it's a draw! as to the original question wings or bryce? I say whatever suits the user! :) Now Kimpe, about that Heavy Chested Blonde bit........ ;)

Both get my vote for some incredible modelling!

They both (all 3 if you count Brycetech--and it's hard not to count him) have proven one thing...they definitely have mad skills. One large cosmic vote for both (all 3) from somewhere over the rainbow. :^) John

Strictly speaking, I would have to admit that Bryster's model is more accurate(but he had access to more accurate data)and he "went the extra mile" by adding interior details that Drac didn't. Drac on the other hand showed that if time is of the essense, Wings would have a much faster and more efficient work-flow. I love and use both apps. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Even though I was one of Drac's seconds on the "Field of Honor", I have to bow my head in Bryster's general direction and give him my vote. I hate to do this though 'cause his ego is already insufferably huge, and he keeps calling me a "Heretic".;-P

I still don't get this... of course Wings is the better modelling app., because it was developed as... well, a modelling app. Bryce was developed as a landscape generator... with some extras thrown in so that the beginner could actually put something in his/her scene other than terrains. We've all pushed those 'extras' to their limits and done things with Bryce that, I think, would astound the program's original developers. But it's not a 'modelling' app. Drac can import his model into any program he wishes... Bryster can not, but if Bryce is the only program he uses, is he worse off?... Not in the least. I can travel cross country on a bicycle or in a car. I'm definitely going to get there quicker in a car, but I bet I'd see a lot more interesting stuff on the way while on the bike. Which is better? Neither. It depends on your particular circumstances. If you don't have time for sight-seeing... take the car. If you're not in a hurry, and just doing it for fun, take the bike. But don't go around saying that your car is better than my bike, because it just ain't so. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

and mad props to each of you for outstanding work with your chosen tool... :) ... but my vote goes to brycetech for sheer hard-headed determination in duplicating the original reference pic. Cop out, I know... :)

Message edited on: 09/30/2004 10:47

"I can travel cross country on a bicycle or in a car. I'm definitely going to get there quicker in a car, but I bet I'd see a lot more interesting stuff on the way while on the bike. Which is better? Neither." The car. Because you won't be picking up chicks on a bicycle. ;-)

Thought about this all day, and I am going to say Bryster's is best, I think. Drac's is great but I think he could have done more with it. I think this is the reason Bryster's looks better, it is a more complete image. I am not sure if that reasoning makes sense, but what the heck!

If it was for the closeness, I'd vote for bryctech. He's had pharaohs. Just kidding. :-P Anyway, I'm officially impressed by both of you and I'm not going to give a preference. I'd bet that looking at the wireframes hurts eyes.

Firstly, I would like to apologize if Drac thinks I jumped the gun by starting this thread a day early. As I understood him, the render I posted here on his behalf was his final and I was therefore not expecting him to suddenly produce an updated version. Drac knew that the last day of this was 30 September. I agree that perhaps I should have given him a heads-up, but then he could have mentioned that he had an up-dated version he wanted to use. However, I hope nobody thinks I was trying to gain an un-fair advantage, I wasn't. Reference Material: Yes, I had quite a lot of reference material on the the subject, but ALL of it was free and readily available on the net. In fact, there are only a very few sites out there to choose from. I was also helped by the fact that one or two of you guys posted ref pics to help this project along. If Drac did not see these then what can I say? I didn't get anything from other/non-internet sources. The Virginian material Drac mentions is sadly inaccurate. Some of this stems from the fact that the Crystal Palace was moved from its original site in Hyde Park, London, to Sydenham, Kent - as it was back then - in 1852/3, where it was greatly re-designed. The reference pic we agreed upon shows - I believe- the North Trancept and clearly shows that the arch window had 14 outer segments - count them! - and was supported by 9 window sections. Drac's pic shows 12 outer segments which is true of the other arches, but not the one we were using. The roof was made up of glass strips seperated by leading - something Drac missed altogether. The Victorians were also well aware of corrosion and painted their structures, which is why a lot of my structure was given a white texture. That said, this was a challenge between Wings3D and Bryce. Could Wings create on demand something as complex as the Crystal Palace. Obviously it can! And at speed, although I honestly feel that it has a problem with curvature as Drac's CP Roof shows. But Bryce is more than a match despite being hampered by slow render times and becoming unwieldy when faced with huge file sizes. Of course I used Booleans! But not as many as you might imagine. Multi-rep played a large part in my work too. As has been pointed out, many projects need to be completed in a hurry. But I'm with the Hare and the Tortoise analogy here. I'm a slow-coach who doesn't do this for a living. I spent a lot of time trying to get accuracy rather than asthetic quality. I beleive this paid off in the long run. I note that Drac has conceeded defeat (See post 40) I think he has been very gracious in this. I hope you all agree with me here. Thank you, Min! In accepting 'victory' I have to say that I hope everyone gets something out of this. It's been fun pushing Bryce to the limit and showing what can be done by a simple 'landscaper'. Drac's insistance that Wings3d is a great modeller is more than borne out by both his version of the Palace and the amazing work he has done both before and after this challenge. This to the point where I have d/loaded SILO, a prog not unlike Wings and have started to experiment! I will be uploading a special page on my website soon that will include Drac's, Brycetech's, Frogdot's and other versions of the Palace as well as other views of my version. I hope that's ok with those concerned. I would like once again to offer my thanks to everyone here for their support, their encouragement and their votes for both Draculaz and I. It's been a fun ride. Thanks also to Brycetech and Frogdot for getting on board too. And Drac, my young Padawan! One day you too will be a Jedi Master! Specs: 303mb file size. 17,345 objects. 12,869,099 polys. 13:40:07 rendertime. I've also posted a larger (wider) verison in the Bryce gallery. Regards The Bryster

I'm with kimpe on this.

I would like to give each 1/2 vote as I like both of them and they both did a fabulous job. Yes, drac (I wanna have your babies),finished first with a super image. Yes, bryster(the old man)took a longer time to finish, but came up with a super image as well.

Ok...so shoot me! smile

Message edited on: 09/30/2004 19:23

I'll have to go with Brycetech on this one. You're both nutz; g So I'll give each of you half a nut (and one to Brycetech as well for beeing equally as nutz. :) This is all totally fantastich! :)

Well, I see no more or less amazing skill in modeling from either entry. I can't decide which is better modeled and to pick a better render isn't the contest, so I respectfully decline. Try doing this with 2x4s and nails. Now there's skill!!

Vote - The Bryster But, come on. The modeling on both renders is irresponsibly, amazingly massive. Choosing between them is almost no decision, `cause how do you truly choose??? The choice on which one to vote for, or who gets the most votes in the end is inconsequential, the tasks performed by both are monumentous. AS

Here, here Dave! I simply cannot compare one to the other. They are both exceptional examples of what can be done in the hands of a skilled artist with scads of creative vision. I was equally impressed with both BT's and frog's versions. I just hope no one blows over your toothpick version, Dave. ;)

Great work from all of you. I am in awe at both your artistry and patience.
I am doubly in awe that none of you went in insane. Or did you?

Arry :-D

I think they are both wonderful models, and both people obviously have been obsessing over them for many days! But in this case, I just really like Drac's render more. It has a less cartoony, more realistic feel to it, and I think that if they were both applying for a contract or something that Drac's would come out on top, IN THIS CASE... (grins) Good work, both of you...