Hello dear fellow community inhabitants ;-) Last weekend, after six week of work on it, I have finally finished my Renaissance textures set for the V3 Morphing Fantasy dress. This is probably the most detailled and most accurate historic textures set you will ever have seen. Each texture has been created not by 'just painting', but by using the *real* materials in photographs. Being a historic seamstress for many years now, I can take the advantage of, for example, being able to simply photograph silk Duchesse or silk velvet. I also own a computer embroidery machine, which allows me to create certain historical embroidery patterns, then stitch them to fabric, photograph them and use them in my textures. This is one of the many 'real' ways how I created these textures. The new texture set, which includes *three* different gowns, each in four different colors, will hopefully be in my store by next weekend. And *you* can now win the whole texture set (or parts of it!) by answering either two or three questions, which I will ask in my next posting below the product images ;-)

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Now to the contest ;-)
As I have always liked talking and teaching about historic garments (and encouraging others to do so...), here is the contest for you:

As you can see, each of the three pictures bears a name for the garment that is shown.
It cannot be too difficult - these are of course the names of the historical owners of the garments.
Two of the gowns were strongly inspired by paintings of the women whose names they bear now.

If you would like to win this set of textures, with three gowns, as shown above, each in five different colors, as shown above, then do the following:

Name the full names of the two women, the approximate date of the painting, plus the name of the painter.
(It is not as difficult as it sounds; if you are interested in art and able to search on Google, this should be done in almost no time!)
THE FIRST THREE WHO ARE ABLE TO NAME THESE TWO CORRECTLY WILL RECEIVE THE FULL TEXTURE SET; WITH ALL TEXTURES AND MAT FILES AS SOON AS IT IS IN MY STORE.
Give your answers in this thread ;-)

One of the three gowns was never shown in a painting. All you have is the name of the one who wore it (and you have to find out which one of the three gowns this is!).
IF YOU CAN TELL ME NOT ONLY THE FULL NAME OF THE ORIGINAL OWNER, BUT ALSO WHAT FOR THIS GARMENT SERVED, AND FOR HOW LONG IT WAS APPROXIMATELY WORN, THEN YOU WILL WIN THIS ADDITIONALLY TO THE TEXTURE SET:
I will create, based upon your personal preferences, another texture color for each of the three gowns.
For example, you want Eleonora in sky blue, Isabel in dark green and Maria in orange - I will create it for you. After I have sent these additional textures plus the appropriate MAT files to you, I will delete the textures from my Harddisk.
So you will be the only one who owns them, and are free to do with them whatever you want (except of corse offering them for download or sale).
This part of the contest is only for the first person who can tell me the full name of the original owner, the purpose of the garment and its wearing time.
This one is very tricky, I know - but it is manageable.

YOU HAVE TIME TO FIND THE ANSWERS UNTIL SATURDAY. (But I would not be angry if you would find them earlier! ;-) )

Now, as english is not my first language: If I did not explain something properly - PLEASE ASK.
Other than that, I hope you like the textures very much :-D

Best wishes,
Sabine

Message edited on: 10/19/2004 12:33

Hmm, I found interestingly enough: nothing much (or maybe I'm too tired to use google...) L.

The third one, though, labelled Isabel, looks like it was inspired by the painting "Eleonora de Toledo and her son" by Agnolo Bronzino, though I can't seem to find an image of her in exactly such a dress.

The one labelled Eleonora might be inspired by Edgar Allan Poe's Eleonora, I think it does look italian. And since Edgar Allan Poe being a writer, maybe that's the one dress that has no accompanying painting?

The second one might be most likely Maria Stuart inspired, though I failed here as well to find images for this kind of dress, still it has some elisabethian styles to it.

Oh well, no matter that I suck historically wise, the textures and colors are great, dear!

Message edited on: 10/19/2004 14:31

No, not so right.... The garments were textures after actual historic paintings and are most certainly recognizeable on the respective Ladies (whose names they even bear!) if you look at the actual painting ;-) Now what surprises me is that you name the historic Eleonora Di Toledo in one sentence and a fictional Eleonora in another.... once again: no fictional characters involved here. Eleonora Di Toledo is right, now find out if it is one of the two dresses from a painting or the "other" garment, and name its purpose and wearing time. And, yes, I actually have a reason to ask for the wearing time, because the answer is probably beyond anything you could imagine without knowing the purpose of the garment. Another hint I can give that all three paintings belong to the italian- and french renaissance - nothing english involved here. One of the Ladies had a famous name sister who later became queen - but it is not Maria Stuart. Oh, come on, I have given sooooo many hints now. Is it indeed so difficult?

*LOL If yer freezing and tired like me, it can turn out to be difficult. I'll try my luck again if I may? Maybe after a coffee (and that cat off of my arm that's sleeping here) I might churn out something usable ;) And if yer german I might be able to express my twisted thoughts better in that language! ;)

Isabel: Elizabeth of Valois (1545-1568), queen consort of Spain, daughter of Henry II of France; wife of Philip II of Spain; painted by by Alonso Sanchez Coello, c. 1560 Eleonora: Eleonora of Toledo with her son Giovanni de' Medici, painted by Agnolo Bronzino, 1544-45 I was wondering, as your texture looks like a combination between that dress (the sleeves) and another one Bronzino did, in 1560, that had an overcoat that had that sort of pattern on it (two golden embroidery lines down the front, two on the sides), but in the portrait you can see the typical square necline as this.

lol... Yes, I am German... and yes, it is freezing cold here... So... was auch immer Du sagen mhtest, ich werde es lesen knen ;-) By the way... language is also an issue in this task. See that Eleonora is called di Toledo? This is an italian name thing. If she were called de Toledo, it would be french. As I have already hinted out that these three gowns are exclusive italian / french renaissance gowns, this might help you finding an answer. If you have a name, there's Google picture search... 'nuff said. ;-)

Arien is right... in parts, but not fully.
The Eleonora gown is not the one Bronzio painted (either in 'Eleonora and her son' or 'Eleonora' - there are two paintings of the same garment, one with son, one without) - that one was made of incredibly cut, patterned velvet - this one here was made of silk duchesse which obviously has no pattern.
So... the hunt goes on ;-) (Did I mention that you have more than one try?)

Message edited on: 10/19/2004 15:25

P.S. I just know her as 'Isabel de Valois' - her french birth name - which is also the title of Coello's painting ;-) As I have said - language is important... ;-)

Also gut, ich geb's auf. Ich find f die liebe Eleonora immer nur das Bild mit ihrem Sohn. L Ich erlass es denen mit besseren Spnasen und nicht so klammen Fingern! But when this contest is over, I'd love to see the paintings you used as inspiration for the textures, deal? :-)

Deal! I have in fact already finished three comparing pictures (original garment / painting vs. V3MFD w/ texture). And of course I will bore you all to death by also posting the history of the garments, and how each of them shows important influences of italian / french renaissance fashion ;-)

Sweet! Und so schnell kann man mich nicht langweilen ;) Wer wei vielleicht lerne ich ja doch noch die eine oder andere Kleinigkeit (wie zum Beispiel: Immer wenn Ange aufgegeben hat, findet sie zumindest eines der Bilder die sie sucht LOL)

There is an Agnolo Tori (though I've also found it as Bronzino) one that appears to be in red silk, has the proper square neckline but the embroidery doesn't match (doesn't have the double line down the front). There are two more from il Bronzino, one red and one dark (possibly black) but in both she's wearing a jacket with embroidered center, which could be interpreted as the double line, but I think that would be pushing. Haven't been able to find anything else that matches yet, except for a couple of mentions to a miniature painted by Giulio Clove that I can't find :)

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Why not try your luck on Maria...? ;-)

Maybe because the moment I try Maria in an image search engine for italian Reinassance I'll be innundated with Virgin Mary paintings? :P

Attached Link: http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page849.html

Though I'd have to say that the Maria one looks quite similar to the one Maria de Medici wears in Allesandro Allori's paint, , around 1555/57. At least the double lines at the front, the belt and the sleeves seem to match. Full image in the link

Arien: I haven't found -that- image, but a few others of Maria de Medici...;)

Attached Link: http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/treffpunkt/buch2-96.htm

Well, there's a bigger one on the link. Belt, bodice embroidery, necklace, and sleeves and underskirt fabric pattern seem to match. Even the embroidery on the upper sleeves (though I think this would be achieved better using the MFD expansion pack). Too coincidental, so I'll stop here. Need to go cook dinner anyway :)

Aye, looks very close to her textures up there! Good find! Und guten Appetit ;)

The problem with that link (as long as you can read what is written there...) is: Maria de' Medici (described in the text - was Queen of France at some point of time) is someone else then the woman in the picture. That actually is Maria DI Medici; the daughter of Eleonora Di Toledo ;-) But, yes, Arian, you are right: The women in the pictures, from whom I was inspired, are Maria di Medici and Isabel de Valois. Yours is the package - I will send you a download link for it as soon as it is in my store. But the contest is NOT YET OVER! Someone else might as well give the same answers- the first who does so is the second winner of the package. And then there is still an unidentified dress. My hint would be: Read my original contest description once more. So there is also still a chance for a third person to win the package - plus the extras!

Danke. One of these days I'll learn a bit more German than "Rammstein" (and related song titles), "angst" and "weewee macher". Blame it on my liking for industrial german bands, though the last one lies squarely at the foot of my Freudian psychology university teacher. And Little Hans. It was enough trouble to switch to English from Spanish to begin with, so I'd rather not complicate my life too much atm. Though I'm not going to rest until I know if I was right this time :)

Yay! I won! Yay! Thank you! As for the "de" and "di", check my post. My first language is Spanish, we mostly used "de", depending on how linguistically paranoid was the teacher. I even got to read "Guillermo Chespir" at some point (yep, that is what William Shakespeare was called by a few very antiquated teachers). Does anybody writing on this thread actually has English as first language? LOL

Yes, it seems as if Rammstein finally brought the german language beyond our country's borders ;-) Unline most people from foreign western countries, of whom I often have the impression that they assume their own language is superior to anything else and therefore no necessity of learning any other language is given, we here are practically forced from the fifth degree on to learn at least two other languages. I personally like languages a lot, but remember other people from school who didn't and really had a hard time. Uhm - it's getting terribly offtopic here.

Congrats Arien! L So far I think this thread is very much in the hands of non native english speakers, errr, writers L

Something tells me spothmann should have requested the answers via Instant Message ;)

@ Midnightposer: Congrats! You are the second winner and will therefore as well receive a download link as soon as the texture pack is in my store! :-D Anyone volunteering for the third (the one now involving naming the wearer of the Eleonora gown, the gown's purpose and its wearing time)...? @ Arien: No, not necessarily so - it still required to read the whole thread. You'd be surprised how many people obviously can't or don't want to read. Bear in mind that it actually took someone over twelve hours to come up with the second answer for which nothing is required but reading this thread carefully. I am perhaps a little too convinved by my own texture pack, but for my life I cannot imagine that no one within these twelve hours has taken a look at this thread and decided that anwering would be too much work for such a 'simple' texture pack ;-) Ah, now I can post the history and comparing pictures of the 'Isabella' and 'Maria' gowns... will do so in my following two postings ;-)

as painted by Allessandro Allori c. 1555-57. Concerning the embroidered guards, the garment bears a remarkable resemblance to the gown of Maria's mother, Eleonora. However, as this is a 'younger' gown (meaning, it is younger than Eleonora's - so it was created later than hers), some differences can easily be seen. The high collar, the front split skirt which reveals the heavy cream and golden underskirt - or, rather, its forepart; these elaborate, A-shaped pieces were pinned to an underskirt, and the split overskirt made them look like a full skirt - a fashion which then also travelled over to England and became a trademark of Tudor and Elizabethan fashion. The forepart is often confused with an A-shaped piece which is sewn into the split overskirt - but historically, these were three different items - Overskirt, underskirt and forepart. Due to the 'pinnedness' of the forepart this was often given away as gifts, with matching sleeves (which then were laced to the bodice of the gown). The differences to the later fashions is very obvious - the gown is not worn with a wide farthingale (hoopskirt), but just a small one; and the neck- and wrist ruffles are still missing. The gown is adorned with the typical pearl embroideries and heavy jewelry. Sleeves and Forepart are made of either golden striped, cream silk jacquard or cream silk that had sewn-on strips of golden trims. It must be said that this was probably the last painting of Maria that was ever completed during her lifetime - she died in 1557 at the age of 17.

painted c.1560 by Alonso Sanchez Coello is the last, and youngest, of this collection. The golden embroideries in ribbon and bouillion, which cover the entire gown, are simply incredible - the estimation is that a single embroiderer must have at least worked a year on this masterpiece of fashion. Isabel wears a high necked partlet made of pearls - a fashion which was also known to have been worn by Eleonora Di Toledo in her probably most famous painting - the one with the incredibly patterned, cut velvet gown; but Eleonora's did not have the later fashionable standing collar as this gown here does. Isabel furthermore wears exceptional jewelry as well as jewelled trims with her gown. The sleeves are decorated with wound-up trims and pairs of aglets (which basically served to secure the ends of lacings - but as we can see here, it was also possible to use them in a different way). Interesting enough is the leather glove Isabel wears in the picture - this would suggest that this gown was worn as everyday clothing.

Thank you for all the information! It has been very interesting to read. As for the second answer, I am surprised myself that no one else did it before. But hey, their loss. Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on them, and I'm already thinking of probably trying them in a set like Daz' Studio or Mansion Hall with Moyra's textures. Yummy :)

Sabine: Thanks, it was indeed a very interesting read. As for the answers, I for myself would have felt like cheating if I'd used Arien's results LOL But that's me, sometimes I'm too nice for this world (on other times I'd be kicked outta hell, but that's another story g). Agen, congrats to the winners! s As for the third gown, it still looks a lot like something italian, something like maybe Julia would wear LOL Yep, me being a complete fashion illiterate! ;)

First I want to thank you for your generosity Sabine (love that name by the way). This thread was very informative and was worth reading just for the history lesson. I used Arien's results for the simple reason that you had made the statement "But the contest is NOT YET OVER! Someone else might as well give the same answers". I now see the word "cheating" in one of the posts here. While it clearly was stated as "I for myself would have felt like cheating" so it was not an accusation I still get the impression it is aimed at me because I did what you said someone else might as well do. Not wanting to be the cause of any hard feelings on anyone elses part I feel I must retract my post/answer. No hard feelings. Again thank you so much for generously offering such beautiful textures as a prize. Your work is stunning and I look forward to seeing more of your creations in the future. Congratulations Arien on a job well done. You DEFINITELY deserve the prize. :)

I - just speaking for myself, as the only judge in this competition ;-) - have seen no cheating anywhere here. My initial statement was "The first TWO who give the answers IN THIS THREAD will receive the texture pack". I think not that this could have been misunderstood. I also think that we worked together on this thread here. And I also believe that Brokenangel9 could have given the answer. Therefore I herewith declare that the contest has three winners. All three will receive a copy of the texture pack. This way, I think, no one will feel cheated or will have the feeling someone else cheated because he / she just read the thread (and my initial statement). Is that alright with you three, Midnightposer, Brokenangel9 and Arien? There is still the possibility for someone else to own the texture pack - plus three bonus textures in different colors. Just find out what the secret of the Eleonora gown is ;-) And, by the way, if you found my little historic lesson interesting - just wait how thrilled you will be when I eventually reveal the secret of Eleonora's gown (if no one else can answer this question, I will most certainly reveal it - at latest when the texture pack is in my shop - you may thank whoever is the beta tester at the Renderosity store for this taking so long). As for future creations: Yes, I have plans. Yes, I am already working on them. I may toss in three textures on which I am currently working: - Marilyn Monroe's "Happy Birthday, Mr. President" gown texture for The Dress; - Scarlett O'Hara's red velvet 'Shame' dress from Gone with the Wind - will come with feather balls as a prop; see my homepage / featured gallery images for a texture of this gown I have previously made for Posette) for the V3MFD; - Queen Elizabeth's gown from the 'Phoenix' portrait for V3MFD & Expansion pack ( http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth20.jpg )- this will definitely be published in a pack with some other Queen's gowns, like - Maria De Medici's Fleur-de-Lys gown (de Medici this time ;-) - http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/ariadata/image/SK/Z/SK-A-870.Z.jpg ) and - the portrait gown of Archduchess Isabella Clara Eugenia ( http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/claraeugenia5.JPG ). There's so much historic fashion I love, but my greatest love is for the Elizabethan gowns from England and France. Now if there was any artist who would be willing to collaborate in creating a mesh for a real Elizabethan gown - I would be jumping right in by providing all information on what the mesh should have and of course make unbelievable textures for it. Don't get me wrong, the V3MFG w/ expansion pack is already great - but it's not the real thing. I could texture far better with a correct mesh... sigh...

Eleonora of Toledo and she was buried in it.

Midnight, I wasn't aiming at you, as the first post by Sabine clearly stated two winners, and since I already stated I wasn't able to find jack on google I found it would be unfair of me to give an answer anyway. That was what I meant. Please accept my apologies, and don't retract yer post/answer. Sabine: Hab mich wohl etwas falsch ausgedrkt, aber ich meinte tatshlich nur mich damit, nicht Midnightposer. Von daher ist es absolut okay, wenn Arien und MidnightPoser die Gewinner sind wie's war s Arien and MidnightPoser are the winners in this contest as far as I'm concerned s

SndCastie: Good start - but something is missing. How long did she wear the gown?

Spothmann, I'll abide by whatever result you decide. Looking around art galleries online was fun.

As for the new projects, they look very nice. I particularly like the Phoneix gown. But if I may suggest two things:
1- the shape of the upper puffy sleeves and the overskit might work more accurately using the accessory pack for the MFD, if the puffs can be morphed to ride higher, and if the collar can be made smaller to have the historical shape instead of a fantasy one.
2- along the same vein, doing a morph for getting those long puffy sleeves -as seen in Maria de Medici's gown- again would make it look more accurate. In this case, the collar in the MFD's accessory pack would definitely work, I'd think.

But this are just suggestions. I think you've done a wonderful job recreating these gowns, and I have no doubt you will do the same in the future.

As for Eleonora's lenght of burial with the dress, I think I've got the answer, but I won't post it here. Wouldn't be fair. Let it just be said that the information can be found online :)

295 years till they dug her up in 1857

SndCastie: GREAT! You got it! You've won! Name your colors for the three gowns and I will happily color them for you, and as the others you will receive your download link as soon as the pack is in my store :-D (Best would be if you could name the colors as hex codes, as used on websites - http://html-color-codes.com/ should help you.) Arien: Yes, the suggestions are great; I thought about that already. This is why I said that this "Queens textures package" would not be for the V3MFD alone, but would require the expansion pack also ;-) I think I will make the collar smaller using a transmap - this doesn'tz distort the texture on the mesh as much as a morph does. Will see what I do about the 'Phoenix sleeves'.... So - now is the time for me to give away my last historical lesson in this thread, which I will do in my next posting. Thank you all very much for participating in this little contest! Best wishes, Sabine

When the tomb of Eleonora Di Toledo, who died in 1562 of Malaria, was opened and examined in 1857, it was discovered that while of the body only a skeleton remained, the gown was still remarkably intact considering the fact that in it, the body had decayed.

On location, the gown was described as an 'off-white heavy satin gown, with brownish velvet guards (trims) which had heavy golden and silver embroideries'.

Later in the museum where the gown was brought and remains until today, closer examination showed that the gown had changed its color over the centuries in the tomb - originally, this had been a sage green silk duchesse gown with black guards and golden embroideries. Interesting enough, it is also witness to the fact that the tomb had been robbed shortly after the funeral - the body was turned backside up (probably to see if there was any jewelry under her body). This is why unlike other gowns from tombs, the bottom side remained almost intact while the front side of the gown was destroyed by the decaying body (bodies always decay to the ground side). Of the front, only fragments of the embroidered guards remained - but in a fashion that they still revealed the original shape of the garment.

The gown shows some typical characteristics of a late, italian renaissance gown - the wide, trained skirt, which was not yet split in the front; the low neckline, the tight sleeves which were paned and laced up to the bodice.

However, due to the 'not-yet-front-split-skirt" this must have been an older garment which was definitely not just created for the burial - it is assumed that this must have been one of Eleonora's favourite gowns from older times.

The gown was examined in Italy by Janet Arnold, a well-known historical costumer.
A pattern for this gown, taken from the actual garment, as well as a much longer synopsis on its history, can be found in her book "Patterns of Fashion: The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women C1560-1620", which I consider to be one of the most valuable sources when it comes to study historic costuming.

Message edited on: 10/21/2004 11:29

my three color choices are 3399CC CC6699 669966 Thank you very much will really enjoy these :O)