Attached Link: http://www.vizualds.com

We like Carrara, you are welcome to your opinion. But honestly whether its Bryce, Poser, Carrara, Max, Lightwave, etc. They are all tools. If we use Carrara, its for a reason. For me its interface makes things much faster, I can zip along and create things that in the so called higher end programs takes me twice as long. Plus I find the community of Carrara AMAZING, so many places to ask questions and a plethora of resources, whether it be new plugins or tutorials. It can be argued endlessly, but its a moot point, when I know what I prefer, thats what I use, and I do know I'd prefer other members of renderosity to not hassle me.

I won't name any names on who is doing the harassing, but I'm sure we all know who. My request is please, you've made your appeal on the wonders of the software that you use, now quit spamming our forum.

Thank you.

Brian
brian@vizualds.com
http://www.vizualds.com

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 09:37

Hey man,

Have you ever heard of FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I for one want everyones' opinion --- good and bad --- it's all worthy. I can handle it. I'm an American!

Get over it, not everyone will post what or how you like it.

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 09:47

The point is that its going beyond opinions. Saying it once or twice is fine. But responding to people's posts repeatedly in a harassing way and harassing new users is just wrong and not very appropriate. All I'm asking is for the people to curb it back a bit.

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 10:36

ya know... it's no wonder the rest of the world hates us, when the majority of Americans (particular the younger generations) feel they have the right to make a comment like that... "I can do anything I want, I'm an American"... SO WHAT!! Me, too... but my momma taught me something which is severely lacking in this day and age... MANNERS and RESPECT FOR OTHERS... This is the World Wide Web... not the American Web Which We Let Others Use... geez...

Brian, I agree... I'm getting sick of people spamming forums, pushing their favorite software. We use what we use for a reason... we are all adults and able to make our own decisions and HAVE made our own decisions about which software we prefer to use. For instance, the thread 5 down from this one... where people start advising to use other software when Carrara does just fine on its own... it's getting ridiculous... these are Carrara/RayDream forums and should be kept at that... not as an outlet for misguided souls to push their personal favorites... If someone here has a question, it's going to be about how to do something in Carrara, not how can you do this in another program... Of course, if they ask advice about other software, that's a different story... But you're right, there is too much 'my software is better than yours' going on...

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 11:00

Expressing ones opinion is ageless. It's great we have that right in America. It has nothing to do with manners or which generation you are from or which software forum you wish to post your opinion in.

Express your opinion because it is your right. Of course gentlemen will use manners --- but some will not. That is their right too by-the-way. If they break the rules --- correct them. In my opinion I also prefer that the topics stay on Carrara but I like the differing opinions. I don't find them offensive or to be dominating this forum.

Have a great day Carrara Pals!

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 11:23

I as both a Carrara and Amapi user/owner will say what I think about the software I've purchased. I have never on this forum critizied or made personal attacks on anyone here. I have had them leveled at me by those on this forum who firmly appeal for censorship. Carrara is such a great program for the money ($$$) (50% more this version) that no one should be allow to question the program, improvements, or even the cost associated with version 4. Keep dreaming...

Uhm, I HOPE you're not talking about the posts made at the end of that "is now the time to buy" thread, because they were legitimate inquiries.

The only reason I started coming here is because:

A) I'm an old RayDream user, and some dialogue in other forums about Carrara rekindled my interest (call it nostolgia).

B) At least one member of YOUR forum here came to another forum criticizing that app, and saying Carrara was the best app, and could do just about everything that's in high end apps (which I highly doubted), and made several points about.

In my view, it's not the high end app guys who feel "threatened" and invade mid-range app forums at all. I can't begin to tell you how often someone will start going off about how "overly difficult" and "unnecessary" the high end apps are, and that their mid-range app can do all the same stuff. I believe that's what sets people off, and is what drives them to come to these forums to "prove them wrong" or find out more about what they can do. So I have to wonder... who feels threatened again?? ;-)

I'd seriously consider blaming the influx of people critiquing Carrara and comparing it to expensive software recently on your own users.

That said, I'm definitely impressed and intrigued by Carrara from what I've found out recently, but I'm certainly not prepared to replace my copy of 3dsMax for it, and it has nothing to do with money. I'd gladly pay less for the same results. ;-)

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 12:18

hehe. Wasn't referring at all to you Maxx, your inquiries were legit, and I DO welcome anyone's opinions and questions. There just comes a point when its overstepping the boundaries of being civil. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a flame thread, I'm just making a request to all and hoping that people take a step back and realize what they are doing. That said I've made my request no more comments will be made by me on this thread.

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 12:28

I agree that everyone has a right to their own opinions... everyone SHOULD have their own opinions... That's not the point here, though. If, for instance, I ask a question in a Carrara forum about how to do something using Carrara, I don't want to hear about how this program or that program can do what I'm trying to do better. Chances are I don't have that program or care to use it... for my own reasons and opinions.

The point was, as I see it, a plea for a little common courtesy...
Edit:.. lol... just got this mental image of Rembrandt flaming Van Gogh on some Renaissance bulletin board because he was using camel hair brushes instead of the sable that he preffered.

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 12:53

The bounds of courtesy is, approximately, the bounderies imposed by the question. If the question is phrased "I want to do N with Carrara" then it only makes sense to describe how Carrara might approach N. If the question is phrased "I'm trying to do N and I have Carrara" it is legitimate to provide other options from comparison, not limited to other aps, purchasing a pre-made model, using a photograph, or giving up. Most of us use multiple applications. We have settled on certain combinations based on our available time, goals, and budget, but we are willing and interested to learn more about other options. However, I for one do not appreciate being lectured on my choise of software by someone who has neither my schedule or financial spreadsheet in front of him. Cross-fertilization is a good thing. Seeing how AM thinks about a mesh, or how C4d looks at project workflow, may give the user a fresh look at how Carrara does things and lead to new ways of using THAT program. Sometimes techniques can be borrowed wholesale. The key, though, to personal comportment on a a Carrara forum is not to post what "opinion" is important to oneself, but to post what is useful to others. Even an American should be able to appreciate that.

I'll give that an 'Amen'...

Amen to that brother!

Message edited on: 11/08/2004 13:57

God bless this forum! I've found a lot of friends here in the years and i have learned a lot. I'll be always very glad to give my advices and my tips to everyone that want to learn carrara and also really glad to learn more from others. If someone want to say that an application is better than another or Beatles are better than Rolling Stone, i believe that there are other forums on the net. Here we are fanatics (and not all americans);-) Pizza, spaghetti, mandolino e Carrara -TOXE

1.) I do visit the forum about twice a day and I do read EVERY thread. Maybe not every posting to ALL threads every day but I do watch all of it. I may seem a little invisible at times but I am watching. 2.) Carrara is only getting better. It's also getting bigger and the 3D community is responding. Some of that response is other users coming to this forum and posting opinions and asking questions. Some of that response is Carrara users going to other forums and posting their opinions and questions. I watch all the threads. Some of those can get a little warm and when they get heated, I lock them. You can ask any of the older members here and they will tell you that I have "moderated" discussions when the TOS is violated. On the really extremely rare occasion, I have also temporarily and permanently banned people who can't keep their mouth shut and who continually violate the TOS. All that being said, the threads that are up in the front of the forum have been walking the edge of the TOS but they haven't violated it. -Kix

We want to use this forum for good support not for wrong reason. Carrara is indeed useful 3d application in some areas. We need alot of supports to make it better and make more plug-ins. Carrara is a real good investment. I can say that members who trashes our forum into garbage are democratically wrong!!!

If we are getting more people from the outside coming here, maybe it's because of a good reason. It seems like Eovia has been a lot more aggressive in their marketing lately. I see ads popping up on CG channel (a popular high-end 3D users forum) almost every day. Maybe Carrara is just getting more users.

I go to El Centro for the day and all hell breaks loose it sounds like.

i dont know if i have any friends here but without this community and carrara there would be no 3d for me,Brian is right when he say that you can get something done faster in carrara then in a big boy app,i also can say that this is true cause i have one of the big boy thing.i always include carrara in my workflow cause it makes a lot easier and painless.you cant say this software is better than that or better than this the only thing you could say is carrara cant do this or maybe cant do this but there are much great plugins for carrara out there that makes the software better and better and also eovia is looking for the good stuff.another thing i really like here is that here is no this is a hobbyist and this is a pro,if you know what i mean.i learned so much from this community it really rocks and also carrara.:)

I have always found this forum has a very positive helpful and insightful demeanor to it. I visit several forums every day. One of them being Maccentral, me being a Machead and all. I find a striking contrast between Maccentral end this forum. Maccentral is very hostile and frankly even asking a simple question sometimes will get you a very condescending rude answer. I have also noticed that a very small but extremely annoying group of individuals who don't even use or care to use a Mac will post only to antagonize others. I personally have as of lately even found it entertaining, but I can surely state that it is not been consecutive in any other way. I kind of agree with the tone it down post, even though I do agree we must respect freedom of speech, I also know what could happen to this place if things start getting out of hand. I also trust Kixium will address matters in accordance with the rules. This place must be the helpful insightful courteous cyberspace it was intended to be. After all we are the community and it's up to us to keep it that way. DAIGORO: sure you have friends here. I have gotten help many times here and thats what friends do, they help each other.

I learn stuff everyday about Carrara from various online forums. I visit Renderosity more than the others because I use six other 3D apps that are hosted here. Carrara does seem to have a nice crowd, though. Maybe because it is a nice program to work in compared to others. The more difficult an app is, I find, the more difficult its forum members are.

The best thing out of all this is that no matter what happens, We(Carrara users)are getting even more united after all this. We're here to help and learn and to be useful to others. Have no need to close our doors for that people with no manners because it'll be just a matter of time to then to learn how to express themselves better by experiencing the way we do here everyday. This forum is the best place on the net to express your unconditional love for this software and its users. Thanks kixum for been our moderator, we trust you. Thanks MarkBremmer for not let any question without an answer. I can't list all the names, but I want to say thank you for all of you, thanks to make this forum the way it is.

Me wanted to say "constructive", not "consecutive", I bet some of you just thought, what the heck is this guy trying to say. :-)

I've been posting messages about my disapointment with Carrara. Am I the one being singled out here?
If so, let's say I'm "amazed": a couple of weeks ago, guys from this forum (including Nicholas86!) flooded the VUE forum with posts about Carrara and how much better than VUE it is (they didn't get flamed, btw). At first, I found that kindof rude. THen I looked closer at the C4 feature list and was impressed; so I decided to take the plunge (yes, it does pay off to be rude ;-).

Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say that I AM DISAPOINTED with what I have seen to date (I can detail this if anybody is interested). I'd like to tell you guys how marvelous I think Carrara is. Truth is, I'm really not impressed.

Am I allowed to say that? Maybe not. You guys decide.

Message edited on: 11/09/2004 14:26

Petshoo,

I appreciated your comments and found them very valid.

What is wrong with expressing that you expected more? To me that is a good thing that pushes for improvement for the user base. I have acctually decided to wait to upgrade until I see some more C4 stuff get posted.

Censorship sucks not matter where one is from! Carrara rocks!

Steama

Message edited on: 11/09/2004 15:40

I think part of the problem is when people start making comparisons and calling Carrara high-end. Carrara is a professional tool but it is not high-end and that is part of the reason I like it. High-end generally means quite deeply detailed and complicated (with the complexity comes more power however) but that is not what everyone wants.Carrara has lower-end implementations of high-end features which is exactly what I want. If people want the power of Maya or XSI (or any other tool) the best thing to do is to get them because no other application can replace them for what they are. As for mentioning other software, I have done it on occasion and I did not realise that mentioning freeware could be a bit rude on an application specific forum. I think I will refrain from now where it is not clearly the intent of the thread as some 3D forums do seem to have different rules and sensitvities to others which is easy to forget. I think honest discussion about an application is really important as devs can sometimes miss just what their customers want from them. A real balance is achieved when we can discuss what we think even when the discussion turns negative. As long as both the great amounts of praise or crit stay withn their respective threads without spilling out eveywhere on the forum it's all good.

Hrm. I don't find mentioning freeware rude, as most of us do use multiple applications in our 3d work. So I don't consider it disloyal to Carrara to sing the joys of Mechanisto or MacRock.

And if mentioning freeware is rude, mentioning any other app is probably rude. Stuff like ZBrush, Silo, Poser, etc, which make great companion software for Carrara.

Well, I would like to go on record as suggesting that while I do think I will be upgrading to C4 pro for a few tools I look forward to playing with, I have also posted on this board before regarding my dissapointment that the modeling tools were imho less than what I would expect for an app I had to purchase... so I use Wings3d for my boxmodeling... no biggy... however, that said, I use Carrara Studio 2 for rendering, and I am now learning to animate with Carrara... I am having great fun with it... Infact I have just posted the terrific news regarding the release of C4pro over on a forum I moderate on... I cannot say that I agree with every method utilized within Carrara, or that I would ever consider to model anything in this app, but... for rendering I just think it is grande indeed... I don't really think I need anything else... and for animation, well... I viewed the green ninja sample posted by some beta tester, and wow... if I am ever able to animate remotely close to that then I will be one happy camper indeed... :D So there ya have it... am I less than another Carrara user simply because I don't use it for modeling? I don't think so... because I use Carrara most everyday for most every other function within the process of 3D... Happy 3ding all :)

I think anything can and should be criticized, even Carrara on the Carrara forum, as long as the criticism is objective. If you lose objectivity then don't bother posting since you really don't have a point. But if you do have a point, we all benefit form your critical post. We can't just stick our heads in the sand and not realize that something is not good or could be improved. Objectivity is the key.
I for one would like to hear what Petshoo has to say. Specially since I have not upgraded. I would also like to hear from old Carrara users telling me just how much better and speedier C4P is. I stress again, as long as the rant or criticisms are objective, it makes them valid. At least thats how I see it.