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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 21 4:30 pm)



Subject: YAHOO USERS BEWARE OF SPYWARE


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JHoagland ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 11:56 AM · edited Tue, 21 January 2025 at 8:11 PM

Users of Yahoo's e-mail service should be aware that some of the advertisers are now using SPYWARE. The spyware is installed when one of the "advertiser's" ActiveX banner is served to you. I don't know if the ActiveX uses a browser "exploit" or if it just downloads the spyware automatically. These spyware programs installed files on my desktop and in my Program Files folder, attempted to chamge my home page, and changed my desktop to a "security warning" page (with a link to the company's website). The programs then installed numerous viruses into Windows' system files... and into files which could not be cleaned by my anti-virus program (even after loading the latest "dat" files). I normally have my IE settings on "normal" level and I run a program called Spybot in the background (which normally catches spyware programs before they are installed). Nothing mattered- the spyware was installed as if I had clicked a "Please install" button. I had to pull out the power plug on my computer to stop the process and unlpug my network cable to stop the spyware from updating itself. I spent about 2 hours in "panic mode" trying to remove all traces of these programs from my computer... with litte effect, since some files embed themselves into currently-running Windows' system files (which can not be removed or cleaned... even IF you could find them). I had to finally had to go back to a previous "System Restore Point" to fully erase this junk. I also downloaded Windows XP, Service Pack 2 as further protection. I highly recommend everyone else do the same. P.S. I apologize for posting an "off-topic" message to the Poser Forum, but I wanted to be sure that everyone sees this. --John


VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions


ockham ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 12:09 PM

You ain't a-kiddin, man. I've been thrashing around in the same puddle, with parts of the system going ka-blooie every few minutes. (Especially the 16-bit subsystem NTVDM.EXE). Installed Panda AV, which seems to be stopping new infections, but didn't fix the existing damage.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies


Tirjasdyn ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 12:19 PM

That's why I stay away from yahoo games it's really bad there... this is why you shouldn't use IE Look for the resistry entries and plug them into google...I found freeware utilities to get rid of all of them. Plus I updated my antivirus and spyware removal programs. It was a nightmare.

Tirjasdyn


pakled ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 12:42 PM

I've been wary of Yahoo since it was known as 'America on Hold'..;) I gave up on IE (even sounds like a scream, if you say it right..;) for Mozilla a while back. Getting AOhell off of your hard drive is the equivalent of getting rid of roaches in the kitchen..been there, done that (software..mind ye..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)


maxxxmodelz ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 12:52 PM

I use Nutscrape... I mean, NETSCAPE... to surf, and IE only when I need it. Haven't had spyware since doing it this way. But it took 2 system reformats before I learned my lesson. :-(


Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.


stephen_tacoma_wa ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:17 PM · edited Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:21 PM

I use Spybot about once a month myself. My system always runs a bit faster afterwards and in general. I have come to the conclusion that no one, program will kill and immunize a PC especially if you are connected to a broadband connection all the time. Staying clear of IE does help too. I use Maxthon as a browser although the new Firefox from Mozilla is awesome too. All of these can be found at www.download.com and www.zdnet.com . I may be wrong but it seems to me that we have to live with a compromise of some of this spyware junk being active just as small viruses are always attacking our human immune systems, but few actually couse more than a sneeze.

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 13:21


cedarwolf ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:17 PM

I've tried Netscape, IE, Mozilla, Opera...they've all got their own versions of psychosis and their own personality quirks. Because I do websites for our department I have NS, IE, and Mozilla Firefox so I can check the code. I personally use IE more than anything else because I hide behind the universities firewall most of the time. I'll take the above under advisement most definately. I've been using the antiSpyWare built into the IE Toolbar and it's done a pretty good job so far...found an incredible amount of crap the first time I ran it, and I run it at least three times a day now. Thanks for the tips!


Robo2010 ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:42 PM

G's...don't these guys ever stop. Bad enough we have to put up with; Virus's, pop-ups, Firewall, and now Spying. Anything to get us software to take up our Ram. What is next? G's I use Yahoo Messenger and not the E-mail. Dunno if they are related.


Tunesy ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:58 PM

I Changed to Mozilla at home a few months ago, I think, the same day that governmental computer agency (I forget the name) issued their warning to just not use IE. I've had zero virus problems since, although Spybot and Adaware still pick up some stuff. I'd change our company over to Mozilla, too, but we just don't use the web that much there and our network guy gives me the heeby-jeebies whenever he tries to change stuff around ;)


Khai ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 1:58 PM

I run: Zonealarm Pro (linked to router. if Za is not running on the PC the router will not allow any access to the net on any port) Adware Spybot AVG free (thinking of going Pro) Firefox 1 with Adblock and Flashblock IE is set up on Max secutrity and only used to access Windows Update. Windows Xp Pro running Service Pack 2. (no software probs at all) and you know something? no spyware, virii or trojan's get in. all prog's are updated on an nightly (AVG) or weekly(Adware/Spybot) basis.


DivineRAiN ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 2:31 PM

ya, my desktop was changed to a security warning page too. I use aol to browse the internet. Have been to a cpl sites where I had to unplug my DSL cable because of too many pop-up ads which were coming in waves.. about 3 at a time. There is an art site with a painting tutorial on it that has this type of pop-ups. Also Spysweeper can't delete everything and neither can I because it's currently running or some such crap. Can delete most of the files except DLL and EXE files. Have you tried to uninstall the adware that asks you multiple choice questions?

divinerain


Robo2010 ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 2:39 PM

Attached Link: http://www.alphashield.com/

I used the Adaware program one time, and afraid of these things now (Spyware, adaware..etc). Not sure of em (Confused). I deleted everything that was watching my computer, that I ended up reinstalling WinXP. I have only Firewall and Anti-Virus software by Mcafee. Also I installed this Alpha-Shield, I am returning tomorrow. Only had it for a week. Link for Alpha-Shield above.


randym77 ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 2:57 PM

Yeek. I'm kind of surprised Yahoo would allow actual viruses to be installed. o_O

I keep Windows updated, and use the free version of Zone Alarm. I have never used LookOut for e-mail. I don't bother with AV software, and have never had a problem. Now that I use Firefox, ads aren't a problem any more, either. I don't know how I put up with all those flashing banners and bouncing avatars when I used IE. It's so great, being able to block all that stuff. Speeds up browsing, and is a lot easier on the eyes. I've blocked all the *.swf ads from Rosity, though so far I'm keeping the still ones. I kind of like seeing them, and they aren't too distracting.


stallion ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 2:59 PM

Yes this happened to me also just the other day i couldn't get all the spyware out once i ran a spysweeper it got them but when I restarted my system they all came back like uninvited guess. I had to wipe my hard drive clean and reinstall everything lucky it wasn't the computer that I run Poser on (now this isn't off topic) otherwise four years of downloads would have to be reinstalled

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech


tedbragg ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 3:03 PM

I used to have nothing but problems with my WinPCs, particularly with internet viruses and such. Switched to Mac 4 years ago and I've never had a problem like this. PC guys, use FireFox or Moz and disable Javascript and Active X. Also, if you turn off CSS rendering, your surf speed will jump thru the roof when using message boards.


artnik ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 3:05 PM · edited Fri, 03 December 2004 at 3:07 PM

I use Spybot, AdAware, Spysubtract, ZoneAlarm and of course a virus program.I very rarely use IE. Too much garbage gets in with IE. I am thinking of using Firefox, but haven't gotten to it. I'm on AOL and so far, I have had minimal problems. I like Spysubtract the best.

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 15:07


JHoagland ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 3:13 PM

And another casaulty: P3DO Explorer. It seems that the viruses wiped out P3DO Explorer and the files in the "Favorites" folder. I went to run it and it was gone: no exe! The plug-ins were still in the plug-in folder, but there was no way to use it. I'd be willing to bet one of the viruses was set to look for any program named "Explorer" or that had a folder named "Favorites". And yes, I tried installing the adware. Boy is that fun (that's sarcasm, by the way). When you go through their uninstall wizard, the last page asks you to fill out a survey asking why you didn't like the program. And, no, there is no "I hate spyware" option... and I have no idea what other information is sent to the company along with the answers. I was then asked, "Do you reallty want to remove this program" and are given 3 options: Cancel, Yes, and No. After hitting "Yes" (thinking it mean "Yes, continue uninstalling") and having the uninstaller not do anything, I realized the correct answer is "No- I don't not want to not uninstall the program". When I clicked no, the uninstaller continued... ... and then opened my web browser that prompted me "Do you want to set your home page to this site"?" Then an ActiveX box popped up asking if I wanted to download another program. After I restarted, I opened the Task Manager to make sure nothing was running in the background... yep, something that said "Internet Explorer - MicroSoft 12" was running. In other words, there was still some hidden program that was connecting to the Internet using IE. I couldn't "switch to" it to see what it was doing, so I just hit "End Task". But, about 5 seconds later, it came back. It was then that I decided to go back to a previous Restore Point. As a side note, why do companies try to hide their spyware like this? Do people actually fall for it? If Microsoft or Windows needs to connect to the Internet, it tells you in big message boxes and makes sure that you allow it. Or will companies get wise to this and make ppyware that shows message boxes that look exactly like Windows... but clicking the "no, don't connect" still downloads the spyware. --John


VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions


rowan_crisp ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 3:51 PM

I'll be running for president in four years under the platform that any software coder who makes these sorts of things will be summarily executed. Vote for Rowan.


HellBorn ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 4:14 PM

Using AVG, Spybot and a harware firewall in the brodband router (used ZoneAlarm before that). No problems at all. Not that nothing ever get in. Every now and then when I run Spybot it finds something. Probably because the spyware has changed a little so it not could be identified by spybot. I'm running Iexplorer because of pure lazyness. On the computer I use for sending emails I'm running Opera instead as the spamfilters works very well. When I surf the net and get several popups, get sent to pages that tries to sell something, my startpage changes or I get told to get some anti spyware (one wonder if it's the same people making the spyware and the removers) it's time to run Spybot. I have never had anything making any real damage to my computer.


Little_Dragon ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 4:51 PM

rowan_crisp: Executed in what manner? Will it hurt? None of that painless, humanitarian crap? For those of us not attending, will there be an option to view the procedure on pay-per-view?



prixat ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 5:08 PM

I'd like to know which security site it was. Do you have a link? There is a similar problem reported over in the HTML and Scripting forum caused (allegedly) by Logitech Mouseware.

regards
prixat


geoegress ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 5:48 PM

lmao@Little_Dragon


JHoagland ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 6:55 PM

I don't remember the name of the company, but the website link started with http://213. I know this probably doesn't help much, but maybe it will ring a bell with someone else. (I tried looking through my history, but all I found were my usual websites.) And I'm now trying out Opera. Are there any "exploit" or DSO issues (like in Internet Explorer) to be aware of? --John


VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions


Tilandra ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 7:26 PM · edited Fri, 03 December 2004 at 7:32 PM

I had a problem earlier this year with Hotbar. Yes, I knew the damn thing was riddled with spyware, but my Mother sent me an Easter card that was only viewable with Hotbar... whaddaya gonna do?

Sigh. Anyway, I could not get the darn thing uninstalled, even with their uninstalling utility off their website... every time I rebooted, it hijacked my home page, etc.

I just happened to turn on CNN accidentally when they were airing a committee meeting about unscrupulous internet practices. They also urged people to file complaints regarding websites that hijack your web browser. So I filed one about Hotbar through the website. I got a very nice call from their office, did a little Q&A about how big a PITA the software was to deal with and uninstall. I have no idea what will follow, but it was definitely a positive experience... I came away from the phone call feeling like something is going to be done about this kind of crap.

Anyhow, I would include a direct link, but the site seems to have changed around some in the last few months and I don't have time right now to hunt down the web form I used, but it's at the US dept of Justice site http://www.usdoj.gov/ Edited to add: Wouldn't you know I find it right after I click send? Anyhoo, under "Contact Us" they have a link to a web form for Spam email, mostly they want the ones dealing with bank fraud, medical cures, or securities trading. Under that link is a link to the web form for all other internet criminal activity. http://www.usdoj.gov/spam.htm

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 19:32


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 10:43 PM

Gee, I never have any of those problems. I use Norton Antivirus, and Windows Firewall. I've used Norton's firewall in the past also.


randym77 ( ) posted Fri, 03 December 2004 at 11:03 PM

If anyone wants to dump Yahoo mail and try Gmail, I have some invites. IM me.


bobcat574 ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 12:19 AM

Recently I discovered that the combination of xoftspy, spybot, spywareblaster and webroot's spysweeper effectivly cleared out any and all of the hidden 'bugs' in my system. I also use BHO demon 2, which lets me know if there are any hidden browser helpers trying to install. Along with zone alarm security suite and firefox, I haven't had a single problem. Xoftspy even got rid of the bugs that were wrapped around some of my core files without destroying the file itself!


R_Hatch ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 12:21 AM

Seriously, use Mozilla or Firefox. http://www.mozilla.org Yes, as with any software, there are occasional bugs, flaws and exploits found. These are usually FIXED within hours/days of discovery. With IE, there are several KNOWN flaws/exploits that have yet to be fixed. Patches for these are usually issued MONTHS after discovery, by which time the damage has already been done, if the patch in question even fixes what it's supposed to at all.


elizabyte ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 12:57 AM

I keep telling people not to use IE, but they think I'm some sort of paranoid alarmist. Totally aside from security issues, Firefox is just a better browser, point blank. ;) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


kawecki ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 3:35 AM

I use Netscape 4.80, Firefox and Mozilla, don't have firewall installed and no antivirus active and I never had any problem, but many times that someone uses IE6 I have to waste half an hour cleanning all the mess installed, typicaly gives with Adaware 60 to 150 unwanted entities and all thanks to IE. Want to live in peace?, don't use IE neither Outlook!

Stupidity also evolves!


rhiafaery ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 8:21 AM

Ack, that really stinks. I have been using Firefox for a while now, and I just LOVE it. Also, before when I had Mozilla, I could only play Yahoo Games on IE, which I hated cause I was always worried about stuff getting in. (Yeah, yeah, I know, don't play Yahoo Games. It's a sickness. I am addicted to WordRacer. LoL) But now tih Firefox 1.0, I can play Yahoo Games, and still retain all my high scores and whatnot with it. And I haven't had a problem with spyware since.... I also use AdAware, Spybot, Norton and Zone Alarm Pro.


Jackson ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 8:56 AM

Until last week I used IE and Norton Firewall & Antivirus ever since I got broadband and never had a hiccup. Last week I installed a hardware firewall and uninstalled Norton Firewall thinking I didn't need it. About two days later I got hit hard; it took me five days to clean it up.


12rounds ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 9:13 AM · edited Sat, 04 December 2004 at 9:16 AM

Only a minor comment... dump IE completely and avoid anything Yahoo. No problems with FireFox ... everything works like a breeze - wouldn't change it for the world.

We have similar threads here in Rendo pretty regularly now. It really seems like people take changing their browsers seriously only AFTER they get burned.

Message edited on: 12/04/2004 09:16


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 12:46 PM

I had ZoneAlarm Pro for a week or so. Gosh, ZA kept insisting I was being invaded over 100 times a night when I was sleeping. I'd run to the computer and fumble for the information. I was shocked to realize Zone Alarm thought my ISP's email server was an invader. I had Outlook Express set to check my email every 10 minutes. Some fast calculation showed that the "invasions" were indeed contacts from my ISP's email server. I uninstalled ZoneAlarm Pro, and promptly lost my internet connection. A bit of research exposed a known bug with ZA. I used Norton Utility's WinDoctor to fix that problem. I recommend people stay away from ZoneAlarm. Totally.


bobcat574 ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 1:10 PM

Zone alarm can be somewhat twitchy, but since I upgraded to ZA security suite 5, I havent had a single glitch. Comes with a good anti-virus,web filter, and is even easier to understand than the previous versions.


elizabyte ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 4:59 PM

I use Sygate Personal Firewall Pro. Works perfectly, and doesn't pester you all the time with false or misleading 'reports'. I did use ZoneAlarm for many years, but I switched and haven't regretted it in the least. bnnni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 5:08 PM

One bad thing going against Zone Alarm is the rabid people who support it. I went into one of the forums with a problem that had puzzled me. Within 10 minutes, they'd literally skinned me alive, and never let up. If I were ZoneAlarm, I'd work hard to distance myself from those people.


Xena ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 6:46 PM

I must be the only person in these forums who not only actually likes Microsoft products, but has never had a problem with them. I use IE on daily basis and have never had any trouble with virii, trojans or anything else. I've been using Outlook for years without issue. I run eTrust ezAntiVirus and use Kerio Personal Firewall. That's it. I run AdAware, Spybot, etc and none of them report anything out of the ordinary shrug I turn my computer off each night though, which I'm told it different from America. Here in Australia we do tend to turn off the thing when it's not in use.


lmckenzie ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 7:45 PM

"I must be the only person in these forums who not only actually likes Microsoft products, but has never had a problem with them." Actually, no. I use IE and have for years with no problem. I use sensible precautions (spybot, Adaware, Antivir, Zone Alarm and the Google Toolbar's excellent pop-up blocker), and believe me, I visit some of the web's seamier underbelly at times. I tried FireFox but personally, I couldn't find a compelling reason to switch. The tabbed windows were available for IE years ago as an add-on, it loads slower on my system and browsing isn't any faster. The only thing I found that works better is the text enlarging feature. As for ZA, you can set it not to warn you of every intrusion attempt and it will do it's job silently.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Sat, 04 December 2004 at 8:34 PM

The problems with some of those browser alternatives is that they don't always work for every web site, and for some very essential purposes. I get really tired of having "a better alternative" that really doesn't cut it. Firefox does seem to work better for me than some alternative browsers, but it still lets me down sometimes. Then it's back to IE.


GROINGRINDER ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 1:42 PM

I cannot fire up IE without countless popups IMMEDIATELY. I even have messenger turned off to stop them, but they keep coming. I am forced to use Mozilla.


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 3:04 PM · edited Sun, 05 December 2004 at 3:08 PM

Frankly speaking, you went somewhere you were not supposed to go, or did something you shouldn't have done. This kind of problem doesn't happen when you visit a known "safe" web site such as Renderosity or Yahoo. It comes when people visit porn sites, warez sites, sites known to cause troubles. Yes, on the rare situation, these problems are encountered because people didn't use the most elementary precautions such as antivirus or firewall programs. But again you are not exposed to these problems when you practice safe computing.

I ran into one person who had this problem and it was because her browser had been hijacked to go to one particular web site each time IE ran. The beginning of the solution was simple: just send IE to a different web site upon startup. From that point, the cleanup was easy, using some of the many tools I always advise.

At any rate, the kind of trouble you have is the kind of trouble often left to computer experts who charge a fee.

Groingrinder, in your message you don't state what operating system you have, nor what version of IE you have. I do believe the current version of IE, or the latest Windows XP Service Pack would eliminate or keep those problems from happening. And Microsoft will send you the CD containing SR2 for free if you visit their web site and ask for it. JHoagland stated his problem started awhile ago, and was allegedly fixed. Obviously it was not fixed.

Message edited on: 12/05/2004 15:06

Message edited on: 12/05/2004 15:08


Crescent ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 5:29 PM

" Frankly speaking, you went somewhere you were not supposed to go, or did something you shouldn't have done. " Wrong. I get pop-ups a lot of commercial sites, not warez, not porn sites, etc. (Well, I did before I got Firefox.) As well, if you type in a URL just slightly wrong (there are a lot of jerks who mimic popular site names and deliberately misspell the name to get people who meant to go to the real site) - or if the site was abandoned and some scumbag picked it up, you may get hit with all sorts of garbage as well. I tried to direct someone to a legit site last week, and they were innundated with ads because they missed a letter in the URL when they typed it in. We cleaned out over 700 spyware bugs in his system by the time we were done. (2 hours on the phone fixing it. Ick!) Some browser hijacks will allow you to change the homepage back for that session, but they modify the registry so the next time you start your computer, the home page is hijacked again. There are ways to find the bug that's causing a browser to be hijacked like that, but there's not enough info here to figure it out. The last time I checked Firefox was safer than IE due to the way IE handles things like ActiveX.


prixat ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 6:33 PM

I have to agree with Imckenzie "Google Toolbar's excellent pop-up blocker". It might also be good practise to use Alt-F4 to close windows, instead of the 'close' or 'cancel' buttons the pop-up offers you.

regards
prixat


Bobbie_Boucher ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 8:19 PM

We're not talking about the average popup. We're talking about the kind of invasive stuff encountered from dangerous web sites such as warez sites, etc. If someone mis=spells a URL, and goes to a dangerous web site, they are indeed going somewhere they should not go. The most recent version of IE, along with the XP Service Pack 2 has the ability to disable popups. It's about time.


rowan_crisp ( ) posted Sun, 05 December 2004 at 9:41 PM

LittleDragon... I solemnly promise that it will be excruciating. They'll die by slow exposure to Backstreet Boys songs and velveeta. RC (Sadist)


yarp ( ) posted Mon, 06 December 2004 at 1:20 AM

I've disabled the ActiveX in my IE, so that each time the web browser needs one he has to ask me. This way I only run the ActiveX on a few websites. This didn't prevent me from finding a spyware installed on my machine last week. But Spybot is an excellent tool to get rid of them, afterwards. Yarp

Yarp - author of P3DO Organizer for Poser


lmckenzie ( ) posted Mon, 06 December 2004 at 3:10 PM

"I've disabled the ActiveX in my IE..." I've done the same. Many sites seem to work fine without the Active X control but a few do require it. Until/unless Firefox becomes the standard, there will be a lot of sites out there designed primarily with IE in mind. The more popular any alternative becomes, the more clever hackers will turn their attention to finding ways to exploit it. They (Mozilla) may have plugged the holes that IE left open but I'm sure they have their own vulnerabilities that are waiting to be discovered. That's just the way things work with software. I don't think You can lock something down completely without making it pretty much useless. I'd say no matter which browser you use, keep using the same precautions and keep up to date on new problems.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


12rounds ( ) posted Tue, 07 December 2004 at 1:51 AM

The bottom line is this ... we DO have serious security issues with IE. Saying that "I haven't had any problems with IE" does not mean those issues are not present. It only means YOU haven't encountered them - yet. Fact of the matter is this - many IE users simply refuse to see the potential threats - and many of those threats are documented and reported. Another fact is that they MIGHT have malware already hiding in their machine and they are totally unaware of it. Saying that "creepy crawlies only come thru porn and warez sites" is simply just ignorance of the means available to hackers and virii writers. Hence I believe I'll be seeing another thread similar to this very soon. shrugs too


elizabyte ( ) posted Tue, 07 December 2004 at 4:11 AM

The problems with some of those browser alternatives is that they don't always work for every web site, and for some very essential purposes. I get really tired of having "a better alternative" that really doesn't cut it. That's because people don't know how to code web pages to standards. If they did, they'd work. Personally, I get really annoyed with websites that won't work in anything other than IE. Come on, is it REALLY that hard to check it in something else? All the good designers that I know will take the extra few minutes to make sure it works... ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


lmckenzie ( ) posted Tue, 07 December 2004 at 7:32 AM

"Saying that "I haven't had any problems with IE" does not mean those issues are not present." No, only saying that I've been lucky enough or smart enough to avoid being bitten by them. "...many IE users simply refuse to see the potential threats." Hard to do since they are widely publicized every time a new one crops up. "...they MIGHT have malware already hiding in their machine and they are totally unaware of it." Doubtful since I check my system regularly for just such an occurrence. I get "tracking cookies" all the time simply because I'm too lazy to do aggressive cookie management. My AV alerts me every time a virus attempts to download. I've been programming and working with computers since before the first IBM PC so I'm well aware of the threats and what they can do. I'm not saying that IE is problem free by any means, merely that by being proactive and taking the time to guard against potential threats, one can avoid the vast majority of pitfalls that some people seem to have. I agree that web developers have gotten perhaps lazy in what has been pretty much an IE world. Faced with a choice of using IE's features, which work for the vast majority of visitors, trying to duplicate them for another browser or coding a plain vanilla site that will work for any browser, guess which one most have chosen? If FireFox is successful that may change. If nothing else, it's healthy for Microsoft to have some real competition. Just don't expect that FireFox is going to lead to some hacker free Nirvana. I do agree that you can get hit anywhere, even though certain sites may be more prone to danger than others. If you want to be as secure as possible then you should probably abandon Windows entirely and either pay the extra money for a Mac or bite the bullet and get Linux if you can live with either of those choices. The other alternative is to get something like VMWare Workstation, and run a virtual machine where you can browse to your heart's content and know that your real system won't be affected by anything you run across. You can even run Linux as your main OS and run run Windows in a VM for anything that requires that OS. There are alternatives but saying that using IE will inevitably lead to doom and destruction simply isn't true.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


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