first things first : Happy New Year....!!! Maybe you noticed the question mark and wondering what do I want again posting over and over about the same subject. Well I will explain everything First of all I want to congratulate the winners from the animation contest ( especially the ones the where very good ) since all I am about to write is not directed to them Secondly I must say that I wasnt about to write anything because since I was in that contest this message can be taken as frustration or something similar ( ex inner anger, hatred and so on which is not the case) ; so I will help you make the things a little more clear by stating from the beginning that I am NOT talking about my crappy animation ( which by the way I would be an hypocrite if I would say that I think is not better than the one form dreampaint) I will talk in general as an observer, and by the way kind of the same thing happened in the greeting card contest but that is over so I wont go over it again; one last thing before I start : I am writing this as my own opinion and because I am not the kind of person who wont speak up his opinion and express a point of view. If anyone will take this message personally then what can I say??? sorry. I must say that I am very surprised with the judges choices in both the competitions (animations and stills) - with 1-2 exceptions maybe especially the second place amazingly in both contests the second place was better in any way then the first one but however this is just a matter of artistic taste. What I would like to know is how come animations like the one from Roriel come out in front of many other animations way much better, with a way better technique? And if the Judging Criteria is your answer, lets take a look at this up close shall we? quote: Each animation or image will be awarded a score from one (1) to ten (10) points in each of the following four (4) areas, for a maximum of fourty (40) possible points. 1 Originality 2 Quality of the imagery; presenting the highest overall quality of visual imagery 3 Lighting and perspective: the best use of creative lighting and camera perspective to set the mood. 4 Theme; adherence to the contest theme. Ok, now were getting somewhere Maybe one of the judges can explain to me how this animation was rated.originality oh, yeah Ill give it that; i always wanted to see some weird animals that look like chicken "fighting" and after that become friends again ...what a peacefull dream...but see I end up short on this one because I had a different perception on what originality means.. Quality of the imagery????? Where is that in this particular animation?.so I supposed that it received 0 right? Yeah, I doubt about that Lighting???? Perspective???? Yeah right.. And theme.now this is a tricky one because obviously many people that choosed not to write peace on earth on some background or ball or anything else that you can spin around did not received enough points to come out as winners.. I am not even going to talk about other ones like the ones from pappy411( which by the way not only that is good but also I will never understand what he ment with that text which by the way half is from spinoza and the other half is from some Sunday church meeting - either way dosent make any sense unless you have totally ignored philosophy and religion for a long long time), micaclark, dreampaint (again an animation that probably received lots of points for imagery and perspective, and lighting also) which I will never understand how can be better than ric535s animation or pollywoggles just to name a couple Like a week ago you people locked a topic about a guy that did not understand how come images with no artistic quality receive so many good ratings.well in that post someone said this is something we work on.believe me this is not the way to work on it. Bad ratings and such will stop when you people will start making an example and reward what is truly artistic and what truly has value. I was talking to some friends on some other forum and I was telling them about this contest and how I was thinking that the first two prizes will probably not be awarded because wasnt that much quality..hehe how wrong I was.to be honest tho after I saw the results from greeting cards ( stills) my bet for the winner was the animation from m_daniel; I wonder how you guys missed to reward all that hard work.. So again, if you think all this is caused by frustration and anger what can I say??? Happy new year. But maybe, just maybe, some of you guys will stop, listen and think for a second leave your big egos aside for a moment and listen I will stop here because I think I said almost all I wanted to. And yes I do feel better now that I said everything I think.and I also think anyone with a little artistic foundation got the point I am trying to make. Hmm I guess I have to buy xfrog after all. You can go ahead and lock this one too now, I have nothing to add and even if I would have something to add would be useless since who did not got the point will never get it.. and now the real question that i bet everyone is a ashame to answer : How much time did the judging process took???? (i am really curious about this one)

and also if you would do as you say and first of all if judges we'll fallow the rules they set up would have saving me some writting..... here is what i am talking about : quote"The combined totals of the Judging panel as a whole, will be posted along with the winners upon completion of the judging process, on the Renderosity website. " can i see that please posted as you said you will???? thank you

Dear insomnium78, I'm still working on this. I will be posting the scores as soon as I get them formatted into HTML. I just didn't want to keep people waiting any longer. We have been viewing and scoring this category since Tuesday. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me personally via IM or email. I will be happy to assist you and answer any questions you may have. Best regards, Lillian

The scores are now posted. I understand your frustration. It is an age old argument...what is art...more specifically what is good art? It is not one that will ever be resolved because it is subjective. Art is in the eye of the beholder. We had several different judges, all of whom had different opinions. We added the scores together and this is how it turned out. I'm sorry you are not pleased with the results. However, I will caution you against directing such negative comments towards other artists. If you have an issue with this contest, please direct your comments to me and I will personally address any concerns you may have. Sincerely, Lillian

what a diference between the tone in your first post and the second one..... obviously you did not read my post....first because the questions i had where allready there and secondly because i have no fustration since i don't think my piece is in the top 10....but i think other animations are.... secondly i have no further questions..... so i see no reason to IM you since i allready know what you are about to aswer.... answers like "art is in the eye of the beholder" and "this is an age old argument" will get you out of anything....and mean nothing.....this is not a healty way of looking at this issue.....if art is indeed in the eye of the beholder then you should put that in the judging criteria( ex. 100 points for whatever we feel like)......you had that judging criteria to avoid saying this and yet you say it......amazing.... quote" We had several different judges, all of whom had different opinions. We added the scores together and this is how it turned out." ...in this case my respect goes to those different judges.... and since you said i can IM you with any question and you will answer, i think you don't mind to answer me here : how many points got dreampaint's entry for :Quality of the imagery,Lighting and perspective....how about roriels's entry..... and still i can't see the scores....where are they posted? and now please don't ignore my first questions( about the specific scores).....cause i noticed a habbit in answering just the last question..... i totally have no more questions or anything to add at this if you answer my questions here that would be great if not so be it.... and please understand that i am not taking on the people that submited those entries.....i am trying to understand the judging criteria........but again if the art is in the eye of the beholder, then as hamlet would say " the rest is silence"............

since i can not edit for some reason....i will reply.... found the link to the scores thank you still so many questions unaswered.....got to run now 2005 allmost here

ok this is way off.......

i mean WAY OFF!!!!
Entry # 16 Id: (14446)

1. Originality 43

2. Quality 23

3. Lighting 22

4. Theme 32

Total Score: 120

how come roriel's entry got 43 on originality when 40 was the max amount of points??????
quote:"Each animation or image will be awarded a score from one (1) to ten (10) points in each of the following four (4) areas, for a maximum of fourty (40) possible points." ...either way you wanna take this quote 43 it is impossible......

quote:"
points."

like another member said...quote "lost all credibility"

and so many other entries with 46 and so on????????
ho do you explain that????
you know what don't explain it..... it is very clear what is going on ..............
this is my last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:40

so all this contest was a joke right?????

since the judges did not falloweed the rules i think ALL THE MEMBERS that had entries should ask for an appeal!!!!!!!!!!!!! a judging that fallows the rules that have been posted prior to the contest!!!!!!!!!!!!

since judges definitly broke the rules i must tell you that you do NOT have any permission to use my entry in any form!!!!!

never thought to see such a cheap thing around here.....

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:41

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:42

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:44

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:49

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 23:52

Maybe its just me, because its late or something..but judging from the criteria..I dont understand how 'anyone' got over 10 points on each of the four catagories...and total points are 'all' over 40 points..??

thank you..... this is my point also....

Each judge could give a maximum of 40 points to any one entry and a max of 10 points in any one category. However if there are 5 judges and each gives 9 points for originality (for example) then that would give a total of 45 points for this category.

Ok - Just to clear up the tally sheet total question :)

The Points that are shown on the Judging Tally Sheet Page ....

Are the "combined totals" of "ALL" the "Judges' individual scores."

Thus, if there were 5 judges -
the "possible Combined total"
for **"any ONE image"
** would be a "maxium of 50 points"
in "Each catagory"

[which would be a max of 10 points per individual, from "each" Judge, in Each Catagory].

Hope that helps :)
Dee-Marie

Hi Andy Looks like we cross-posted - thanks for your input. Sincerely Dee-Marie

ok i admit the point adding stuff was my bad...i can admit when i am wrong ...everything else stands....and you will never be able to answer how come dreampaint ( and many other "winners" got so many points for lighting , perspective and camera set up to fit the mood as stated in the judging criteria!!!!!!
this is useless anyway....exactly as i thought....if you did not got the point you will never will.... wish you a happy new year and let this be the new renderosity mission statement :" ART is in the eye of the beholder" ( translated means "whatever we feel like")

Message edited on: 01/02/2005 02:12