I am wanting to purchase one of these for the modelling and animation capabilities, both with using Poser figures and with ones I make in it. Both have features I like, Carrara has a great price point and ease with which Poser stills and animations can be imported. Both have fast and great rendering capabilities. If anyone has used one or both of these, I would love to hear your opinion! I attached an image I rendered from the Carrara 4 demo of one of my Poser characters. I would appreciate any words of wisdom from the many excellent artist out there.

Well, I'm using Carrara 4 Pro and have been using the program since version 1. I've experimented with C4D, having C4D Go and the magazine version of C4D 6, and I perfer Carrara, but both have their good and bad points. For the Price Carrara 4 Pro comes complete with the Poser plug-in Transposer, network rendering and Amapi Designer 7 (although I've never needed it). YOur doing the best thing, solicit opinions and play with the demos. Find out which program suits you "style" better and which interface you are most comfortable with. mike

I've not tried Carrara, but having tried my hand at the many free and older versioned commercial offerings I can offer this much advice. I grabbed right onto C4D, it was fairly easy to learn and worth the time to learn it. The interface was intuitive and for the first time with a modeler I didn't feel like I was learning-challenged. I have heard a lot about Amapi's interface being simple and quick to pick up, I'm not familiar with the rendering comparisons vs. C4D though. Good luck! :)

Attached Link: http://eclecticacademy.com/newclasses.htm#3Dmodeling

Forgot to add this. You can get a copy of C4D v6CE included with a course "Intro to 3D modeling" offered by EclecticAcademy.com, by RandyR (here). The total cost - $20. There's a golden opportunity for you, the course was outstanding and made an easy-to-understand app easy to use. This semester just started Jan 9th, but a note to Randy might still get you in. The next one starts March 6th.

Thanks for the advise. How is the stability of these programs? I've hear C4D is very stable, not sure on Carrara, but the demo did freeze up several times. I've only started toying with C4D and it looks good so I don't know if there is any problems with this.

I haven't crashed it yet. There are occasional slight hesitations (brief second, maybe two) when I'm dragging around a buncha polys on a multiple subdivided model and it's computing the changes, but that's to be expected. I'm probably overdoing it anyway. I haven't taken the time to load Poser models and try renders, sorry I can't help you out more with that. I've been having too much fun putzing around making props for my own amusement. In my newbiness I've screwed with all types of lighting and scene combos, it even renders fast when I throw tough stuff at it. It's a solid app, I don't know that I'd spend the cash for 8.5 or 9 without having played with it long enough but I'd sure spend the $20 to find out without demo limitations by trying that 6CE. It was really a great deal, learned a lot and got the chance to use C4D without straining the wallet. Hope this helps. I'm sure the experts here in the C4D forum could help you out with more details, you could also try asking the all-knowing C4D mistress at PlanIt3D.com, Damsel. She mods the C4D forum there and really knows her.....stuff. ;)

As a user of both products I can give you my opinion of the two: All versions of C4D below ver9 are IMHO the most stable applications (graphics or otherwise) ever designed. Version 9 apparently is a little buggy for some people with certain hardware. Carrara was built off of the old RayDream line. And it was well known as a crash test dummy's favorite ride. ;-) I used to beta test for them but I bailed out long ago. They might have finally gotten the thing to stop crashing by now. But I moved on to better apps. Last time I looked. Carrara didn't have nurbs abilities and C4d Does. But again that may not be the case anymore. I haven't looked at it for a long time. The Carrara Spline modeler is a nice tool. But it makes ugly triangle based meshes. I personally hate that but that's just me. C4D makes beautifully constructed meshes constructed of quads with it's HyperNurbs tool. -ScottA

Carrara is rock solid now, although a lotta people say C4D is the most stable of the 'major' animation apps. My C4D experience is limited to version 6 which I liked a lot. I would have stuck with it if I could have justified the cost when you throw in plugs. Carrara was cheap when purchased as a side grade to Poser which is how I ended up using it, although I don't think Eovia does that as a sales option any more. Dunno why. Carrara is a lotta fun, nice renderer, imports Poser scenes right out of the box (C4 Pro), but the inferface to me is kinda wonky even though I'm used to it now. I miss that about C4D. I'd suggest you check closely and see if any of the C4D plugs fall into the 'must have' category for you in order to determine your real cost. That can add up to quite a few bucks. Carrara plugs are generally cheaper, but it's in a different league from C4D. If you read the boards you'll find that most people consider C4D one of the 'major' animation apps and Carrara a 'mid range' app. Frankly, I don't need a 'major' app for the same reason I don't need Tiger Woods golf clubs. I'd still stink at golf no matter what clubs I used ;) That said, I really like Carrara. The skies and terrain tools in the Pro version are nice. I think the renderer is right up there with the 'major' apps. It's just a really 'fun' program to use in my opinion. One minor irritation to me about Carrara: I like to make my own Poser morphs in an outside modeler. Amapi Designer 7 which comes bundled with Carrara reorders vertices upon import of obj files causing some problems creating morphs for Poser. (Note that Carrara has it's own modeler as well, so you actually have two modeling apps when you get Carrara.) I've been lazy and using good ole Wings for Poser morphs. I'm told that you can make Poser morphs with Amapi if you're only working on one body part at a time, but I haven't fooled with it yet. I just wish Amapi didn't reorder the vertices in the first place, creating another complication to navigate around. Good luck in your app search. I don't think you can go wrong with either one of them.

If you plan on importing poser characters quite often for rendering then get Carrara. I have CInema4DXL 8.5 and it has no Direct Poser scene support there area few third party hacks the get textured poser figures into C4D these days but why bother? plus you will need to spend $700 just for the Cinema4DXl "core" app that has NO GI or HDRI rendering ability. Carrara4 sounds like a great alternate render environment for your poser scenes

I really appreciate all the advise and shared experience. I am leaning towards Carrara (though I like both programs). I would certainly like to be able to bring in Poser characters into it will as little hassle as possible, I like their terrain and sky creation tools and love the speed of rendering (in the demo of Carrara 4 Pro). Stability is important for certain, as I would hate to invest a ton of time and loose it. Thanks for all the info! One last question for you all, Some of my figures when I open it in Carrara still have the defauld eyebrows visiable, though in Poser it is not there. Is there a way I can delete these (much like I would do in Bryce when I import to render in that app)?

Tunesy, try using Carrara's Vertex modeller for morphs the .obj s import easily into Poser. restif, open vicki's head in the vertex modeller. Use the menu Selection:Select by:Shader domain and choose UpperEyeBrow. The prominate eyebrows should now be highlighted. Delete them. Use the SmoothCrease tool and the alt key to turn the blue highlighted edges into smoothed creases. In the Texture room locate the Eyebrow texture and match it to vicki's skin texture. Attached is a sample showing the smoothed eyebrow on the right (left on the screen) and the unsmoothed on the left (right on the screen. Let me know how you make out. mike

Yea. I use Carrara for Poser morphs occasionally. I even use it for (gasp) uv mapping sometimes :) But I can usually work faster in Wings.

This sort of thing always comes down to personal preference based on trying out the demos and deciding what's affordable. Maxon's Cinema4D v9 base cost is competitive but for higher quality renders and/or other features then these come in the form of modules which can really push the price up. I use the older C4D v8.5 and find it to be excellent. Poser imports (including animated ones) are fairly easy once you get more used to C4D. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

I have c3 and C4D XL. I use Carrara 3 for poser as it is simple to get the poser into it. the problem i had with Cinema is that I didnt have much luck in importing Poser. It would import it, but not with out a lot of work. I would suggest Carrara 4 pro with the poser plug in if you are just needing a better rendering engine for poser. No plug intended, but all my gallery is Poser 4 rendered in Carrara 3 if you are interested in any results. Regards, E

Heya echo Your gallery kicks ass! Thanks for speaking up in this thread or I'd have missed viewing it. :) Carrara sure can render up some nice realism. I have a feeling you have a lot to do with that though, not just the app.

Thanks I do some post in Photoshop, not much though; a blur here, a blur there to cover posers flaw, then i do some slight color correction. Heres a before and after for you. Regards E

Message edited on: 01/16/2005 04:24

As an example, one of my first images done with C4D:

If you can afford the cost of Cinema 9 Studio Bundle, then go for it without hesitation. Carrara is nice but you can not even start a real comparison: Cinema is so much better than Carrara in all the important things, from rendering time to rendering quality to the power of the animation modules to the bodypaint UV application. Carrara is like a nice Alfa Romeo car but you don't even consider it when you can go around in a Ferrari.

Just my 2 cents, if you're still interested. I have used both C4D XL (V6-7) and Carrara Studio (2-4Pro) for 2-3 years. If your on a budget, then you can't beat the features in CS4, and the Pro version gives you extras that are geared toward poser users and animators, and modelers (transposer, a 5 node render farm, and Amapi Designer). To get the same render capabilities in C4D as CS4Pro you would need to get the advanced render module for C4D. For the price, the render engine alone CS4 is worth it! I prefer to render in CS4, it's easy to set up, and the image quality is great. For ease of use, although this is mainly a individual thing, they are both easy to get your head around. But in general, I prefer the modeling capabilities in C4D (but the addition of Amapi Designer 7 with CS4Pro probably levels the playing field). I use both programs for modeling, some tasks are easier in C4D, and some are easier in CS4. The spline modeler in CS is extremely powerful, and makes it easy to creat things that would be much more difficult in C4D (at least up to version 7). CS4 now has a utility to convert triangles to quads, which solves almost all the issues with the spline modeler conversions to vertex models. Stability? I can honestly say that C4D (V6 and V7) is rock solid. I once did a marathon modeling session with C4D of 14 hours, didn't close it down once, and experienced no stability issues. CS4Pro seems very stable, but I have had a few problems, usually when I max out the RAM and start using virtual memory. But compared with other windows applications, it is quite stable. If I were starting out now on a tight budget, with the thought af having a companion application for Poser 5, I would probably get CS4Pro. It can import Poser figures very well, with animation (including dynamic cloth - but not dynamic hair). It has GI, HDRI, motion blur, and support for up to a 5 node render farm, and has Amapi designer thrown in too. There has been a recent surge in plugin development for CS, all at very reasonable prices. If budget was not an issue, then I would take a serious look at C4D, the deciding factor would be how well the plugins support the import of Poser 5 figures/animations. Bottom line, the two real important factors are budget and fit. Try both of them out. If the user interface and program logic doesn't "fit" you, then no matter what the cost, using the program won't be enjoyable. If you find them both usable, then look at the features you would like to have the most, and see which application supports them the best, in a simple to use fashion. If you still don't have a clear "leader", then price will probably be the deciding factor (but don't fall into the trap of wanting to get one application over the other because it costs more - the prestige factor - what you really want is results, not an ornament on your bookshelf). If you are really undicided, then do as Ben Dover suggested and get a copy of C4C V6se (which is the XL version, just limited render resolution), and CS4Pro. You will have an excellent and very flexible tool set at your disposal. Good Luck!

Attached Link: http://digital-depictions.com/handtest/htestpre2.mov

The recent release of the InterPoser plugin for Cinema4D may sway your decision. With InterPoser you can easily import textured and animated Poser figures into Cinema4D. There is also a plugin called ePLA from Maxon's 'Plugin Cafe' that is very good at importing exported Poser .OBJ sequences. The image is a frame from a simple ePLA test of an animated hand in Cinema4D. Anyone interested in seeing the 3MB quicktime movie can click on the linl.

Id go for C4d, especially now Interposer is wonderful. It has made loading a pz3/obj into another 3d app about as painless as anyone has a right to expect.

Thanks Everyone for the info and wisdom on this!