I didn't know about a rule till I've read it a little earlier: "Images for each contest should be photographed after the entry start date and before the finish date." I've intended to upload a photo in challenge arena, but because the photo is taken in october I won't uploaded it - I know that I and the person I've taken the photo of, are the only ones who know that the photo is taken three month ago; I just thought that even I don't like rules, I better respect the rules from this forum/gallery because being a moderator on another site I indicate members to respect our rules as well... Reading those rules again I've figured that a lot of members know nothing about these rules - I say that because I saw in challenge arena some "old" pictures that I'm sure that were not photographed this month...I know that when it comes about monthly challenge everything is rather a fun than a contest...I just wonder what are the rules made for... All the best from me! Happy shooting! Respectfuly, Mihai.

"Images for each contest should be photographed after the entry start date and before the finish date." [Cynlee is in charge of the Monthly Challenge, so she may have a different perspective on things.] In my view, the Monthly Challenge is something to sharpen EVERYONE's viewpoint. It should be something NEW. I've been photographing for forty-some years. On almost any subject, I can pull something out that fits. But it would not be NEW. Forcing it to be something new in a way keeps us all young; we continually need to challenge our vision. Kick the cobwebs out! Explore where we haven't gone before!

to quote you, Misha: "we continually need to challenge our vision"...that's what I think, too...although I do participate very rarely at our monthly challenge because of "no time hands"... My prefered challenge was the one called "no postwork"... Have a nice week ahead!

I tend to view the challenge as a learning curve. Have a subject then go out and try to capture it. To me it is not a contest, but something to spark my imagination and try new things.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12379&Form.ShowMessage=2086945

thank you Mihai!! a fair question... & one I discussed with Dee recently as more & more people were posting old images from their gallery which I don't think is right either...

This month when I posted the challenge voting I did write this:
"Remember this is supposed to be fun! There are no winners or losers, as we will not be voting on these entries, but can discuss them in the forum... also let me remind you this is a "challenge"... to give you a starting idea to go on in your shooting for the month... using "current" images are very much encouraged! & post work is allowed, but no 3D or stock photography"

you know how difficult it is to constantly ride herd here trying to keep everyone within the rules? we do the best we can & yes, tend to let people slide ...in the grand scheme of life, is it really hurting anyone? they only hurt themselves by not challenging themselves

Maybe the challenge rules need to be reworded to say "It is encouraged that images for each contest should be photographed after the entry start date and before the finish date." Or maybe we need to start refusing noncurrent entries... ask when it was shot?... shrug... this is your challenge... how strict should we be? hard enough getting people to post the correct thumbsize :]

I'll try & remind more often that "we continually need to challenge our vision" & to use current images (good quote!)

Maybe we can get Dee's opinion here as she's the one that's doing so much work in posting them

Message edited on: 01/31/2005 00:27

["hard enough getting people to post the correct thumbsize :]" - good one, Cyn :))]
Well, I have to agree with you, too, when you say that "they only hurt themselves by not challenging themselves"...
I tend to think that <"the ignorance is bliss" rule> is apllied here - at least for some of members...As I already said, I didn't observe that rule before - hmm! could I blame my 12/24 shift at work and my program at university? Don't know - but I certainly was not "too much there" when read the rules before...:) Ehh, forgive me...
On the other hand, some of our members aplly their own rules around here, pretty often...I've realised a little (more) tendency for letting them slide; well, I'm a little hard with people (as you, cyn, know already) and I do not allow breaking the rules...Yeah, I know: rendo is the biggest site I know in the art area and is damn hard to be heard by everybody...
Don't want to argue or playing around too much with this subject, but I see that a lot of people forget how to dream a little...and to have fun a little...more...
Cheers, Mihai.

Message edited on: 01/31/2005 00:51

It has been said on this subject by a Mod that "on occasion I pull something from the archives for the challenge"

Really I dont see the problem with that, it is not always possible to shoot something relevant due to weather conditions etc, On occasion I have used images that I have shot in the past that are not in my gallery. (The Wolf one for this months challenge is over 2 years old)

Although mostly the images that I use are shot on the month of the challenge, specifically with challenge in mind.

If I could only use "new" shots some months I would not be able to enter. If that is the case then that is fine, but IMO is counter productive.

LP

Message edited on: 01/31/2005 04:48

I think the problem is that people think of it as a Monthly Contest and not what it really is, a Monthly Challenge. If I'm remembering the original threads, it was originally conceived, as a couple of people pointed out above, as a means to challenge your skills. Getting a photo into the challenge for everyone to see wasn't the purpose of it. It was to challenge yourself and increase your skillset In my mind, going back to something you shot a month or a year or even a day before the challenge starts kind of defeats the whole purpose of it. Yea, there are going to be times when things aren't cooperating. For instance, if we did snow right now, most people in the Pacific NW would be hard pressed to find a flake or two anywhere close ... that's when the challenge of portraying snow would come in. -=>Donald

I dont see that using an old image defies the purpose if you are using skills that you have learnt to create something different since the shot was taken. I guess that if we all agreed on everything life would be a little boring. Personally I try to create something new that I havent done before, in doing that it is not always possible to go out at that time and do it there and then. The answer to that is not to submit to the challenge, which to my mind does defeat the purpose. Entering the challenge allows you to gain feedback on your creativity or lack of. From that you can use what you hopefully learn from the feedback to improve yourself creatively. Possibly the biggest problem (leaving myself open to get shot down) is that too many people (including myself sometimes) say good things so as not to upset people, where in reality I would be more inclined to tell it how it is. I mean if I dont like an element if an image I would say so and why, as long as it is constructive IMO thats a good thing. LP

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=867275&Start=1&Artist=LostPatrol&ByArtist=Yes

I very seldom use quotes as IMO it is rude and annoying, but hey needs must. Excuse me whilst I go into tell it how it is mode. Or maybe we need to start refusing noncurrent entries... ask when it was shot? Thats interesting please tell me how you are going to achieve that, you will need evidence, maybe we could include the EXIF data with out posts, NO that can be edited or we could just lie! "We continually need to challenge our vision" Yes it is a good quote. But does & to use current images Imply that images taken last week/month had no vision or creativity? Or that they are not suitable to be created into something with a creative vision? The link is to my gallery the images contains images darting back to 1986, in them selves are rather ordinary, as a collage they are more interesting, so hypothetically if the monthly challenge was collage this would not be acceptable Utter RUBISH Oh well here goes another mammoth and pointless squabble, to join the archives along with the postwork ISSUE I have one question. If the entry is creative and the poster has made an effort to fit in with the theme, then does it really matter it the shot was last week/month ??????? Com on MODS/COORDS resolve it. Controversial as always LP

LP I agree with you... especially when it comes to working with an archived photo that was shot previous to the challenge & one is now looking at it to use as a layer in a collage on the theme... or one is just looking at the image in a different light & trying out different manips on it... you would still be challenging yourself in being creative with the image But throwing up a thumb & link to something that's already in your gallery from months ago is not very challenging That's why changing the wording to "it is encouraged" may be better, so it's not written in stone & there's a little leeway there I really don't think we need to check the dates, LOL, I was being sarcastic, ...it's suppose to be fun, not so regimental

Excellent question Mihai and thank you so much for bringing it up :)

As to the monthly challenge rules

First off - This month's challenge theme - Dreams - has been a little more loosy-Goosy with the rules than most challenges - simply due to the subject matter of the challenge :]

However, I agree, that if we have rules - it is best to have them for everyone, and that everyone that enters the challenge should go by the same rules.

I was not here for the original creation of the challenge rules - However, as Misha, Doug, and Cyn so eloquently stated above, The challenge is to be used, not so much as a contest - but, instead as a learning tool.

Thus, creating "new" images for the challenge is a great way to use your photo techniques, and showcase what you can do within the Photo Challenge theme.

Think of the challenge as a Photo Class Assignment! If you were taking a photo class in college - and were asked to for a photo assignment - you can bet that the instructor would expect the photo to be taken recently.

However, with that said - in most cases, it would be impossible for the Mods and Coords to know exactly when a photo was taken - thus we have a catch-22 situation.

I like Cyn's solution to this matter:

Reword the challenge rules to read:

It is encouraged that images for each monthly challenge be photographed during the specific month's challenge dates.

Lets keep in mind that the challenge is here for fun and for learning - it is not a strict contest - there are no winners or loosers - only photographers who wish to share their craft with others.

Yet, like all things in life - there must be some rules for order to prevail.

1. Theme for Challenge: Gives everyone something to shoot for :]

2. Max size of thumbnail - this is an upload and Internet issue - if the thumbs are too big, it is hard for dial-up Internet users to view the page.

3. Where and how to post entries - making sure that members post - Monthly challenge in the subject header is needed so we [the Photo Staff] know that you [the photographer] has entered the challenge and where to find the challenge image entry.

4. Challenge can contain postwork - but must be "mainly" a photograph - This is a Photo Challenge after all :)

5. New images are encouraged - as this is a challenge to your craft and to your ablitiy to test yourself in creating the contest theme.

6. Images must be within the TOS - All images posted to the Rosity site must be within the TOS.

7. Only 5 entries per Challenge - that way ALL members have a chance to post entries - and the challenge is not over-flooded by just one photographer.

So - Ta Da - Go out, have fun, and get some great images ready to post for the next month's challenge :)

Dee-Marie

thank you Dee :] i'm noting your text in my RR file

I wasnt aware that there were instances of thumbs to old gallery postings and can see why this is no good. I totally agree that the challenge should be just that, if it was a competition I probably wouldnt do it, I do enough of them here as it is (about 5-7 a year I think) although it is fun, winning is not important to me. I have had my rant now so its business as usual. Its a new month tomorrow (what is the subject) and have an outing with my wonderful step daughter who tells me that she has found a real cool location for photography, and that is from someone that used to call me a sad as I go everywhere with the camera. Still as long as she doesnt fall in love with the slr thats ok. LP

I belive the final vote for the Feb Challenge was for the theme of: Opposites :)

will announce tonight at midnight RR time... doubt they'll be a flood of votes before then but you never know :]

I hope you dont think I am gonna get up at 5 AM to see the results lol

Opposites? Way Cool....I believe in the Opposite of everything that is written here! Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuah!

I guess in my mind, it wasn't about Photoshop skills or re-cropping an old image into something that fits the challenge, but a photography challenge. I thought it was supposed to be about taking the monthly theme and using camera skills to capture it (hence, helping you to further your photography skills). But that's coming from someone so busy he can't even find time to do the challenges anymore. :/ Anyway, after actually getting some sleep I've been thinking about it. Does it really matter? It's not a contest. There are no winners chosen. There are no losers. You get nothing extra for entering a photo. If someone wants to post a photo from their archives and say it was shot within that month, let them. Don't worry about rewording the rule (one of my pet peeves in life is the creation of rules that aren't really rules, but suggestions). Those who enter in the spirit that the challenge was intended hopefully will increase their photography knowledge a little more each month. Those who enter old stuff will hopefully learn something too.

Rules! Rules! Rules! Bah! What a load of Codswallop. However, I do like Donald's thoughts, while He was tossing and turning , trying to get to Sleep...I wuz thinking of Him...but, yep....there is no Oscar, no Emmy, not even a Good House Keeping Award....so...I suggest......!!!!!!!Yep.... THE GOLD STAR !!!!! If You do pretty bleedin' beaut in the Challenge... You get a Gold Star. If You get almost pretty bleedin' beaut in the Challenge... You get a Silver Star....and the Coordinator will place it on Your Home Page...to show You have been a good Boy or Girl...or both...sigh

Arent good and bad the same thing lol, Never mind my warped SOH. Yes Tedz too many rules! Yes I agree Donald dose it really matter, for me not really, I believe however you approach it there is something to learn for everyone, and these long discussions may even improve my typing, but I doubt it, oh well there is always spell check! One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be more entries lately, so that must be a good thing.

well, i read the rules for the monthly challenge last April. obviously i don't remember them. LOL. I can't remember much from yesterday (seriously). well, thanks for telling us Misha about this rule. i'm someone who has used older material and entered it into the challenge. and i've never tried to hide it. i just didn't realize there was a rule about it. i do agree that a challenge is something to help us learn and so i like to look at the contest theme and make current shots for it. on the other hand, i submitted older entries because i thought they were good examples of the theme. now i just read the rules Dee-Marie posted and i already forgot them. seriously. my short term memory is working at minimal capacity. i have an autoimmune disease that has affected my memory so severely i'm considered "disabled" in college and am allowed to use notecards for tests. (unbelievable, huh!!!) i'll be able to remember this rule about not using old images because this thread was so long and it'll stick. but i already forgot how old image can be. went back up to misha's opening words. well, i've been working on "opposites" challenge now since i saw that it would probably be the next challenge. well, i think i can use these since the new rule will be: "It is encouraged that images for each monthly challenge be photographed during the specific month's challenge dates." i'm glad this rules was changed offer some leeway because under the old rules, the images i made a few days ago would not considered appropriate for submission. I'm not someone who enjoys too many rules. but the rules for the monthly challenge don't seem too constricting and suffocating to me. i'm cool with them, especially since that word "encouraged" is used. and Mods, i'm not some sort of huge rule breaker you gotta watch out for. i guess you know that. if i do break some rules, it's probably because i simply didn't remember them or never even knew about it. so if i ever cross the line, just give me a hollar. i guess ya'all know me well enough to know i'm really laid back. just let me know and i'll comply. it's no biggie. okey dokey, i should be in bed. i will in a sec. happy day guys!!