Attached Link: http://jekylnhyde.deviantart.com

It's an illustration tool, in my opinion.

I'd have to say it's that they're close minded, immature, stooooooopid? Just kidding about the last one!! I say if whatever one creates is art in any or many ways! My first cup of coffee in the morning is a masterpiece to me! As are many peoples Poser renders (mine included too sometimes!!) My two cents are spent!

...I think a lot of people are bothered by the fact that most of us use a lot of (if not all) canned stuff, right down to lights, cameras and poses. At the end of the day it's all about having fun to me, though. The 'what is art' thing is a circular discussion that makes my eyes glaze over. I think there's an excellent practical reason behind the 'Poser concept' that doesn't seem to get mentioned much: A hobbyist can get something done in this life time. If I wanted to model, rig, texture, animate, light and render a 3 minute animation with pseudo-realistic-humans all from scratch it might be five years before I even clicked the render button. Poser allows you to eliminate almost all those steps (which would bore me to tears) but even then it's still a lotta work. The neat thing about Poser to me is that as you learn you can jump into the nitty gritty of each of those six steps (which I do) at your own pace and (almost) in any order you like. So (shrug) let em throw all the tomatos they like...I'm havin fun ;)

I know all my images are not art. Only to show how far I can push poser(5), with my skills. ;-)

"I'd have to say it's that they're close minded, immature, stooooooopid? Just kidding about the last one!!" Well... I'm not kidding about the last one!! It all racks up to Jealousy!! You want art? How about this - I do music as well as Poser renders. Imagine this tune - a gothic/industrial/techno beat with samples from Japanese anime dialogue on top of a chorus sample by none other than Vera Lynn (a 40's era diva). The tune is called "Lovely Day". If the above mentioned isn't original in it's construction then somebody please enlighten me and the other 40+ people who think what "original" is! Art is about making people think for themselves! If they don't get my work, then I (and many doctors) can't help them!! Remember, ART does not equal ROCKET SCIENCE! Art is about making the viewer FEEL something (shock, horror, sadness, happiness or a just plain ol' stiffy)! Bottom line, do your art for you. If others like it...COOL! If not, F*CK 'EM!!!

Amen cyberscape!!!

Yeah Cyberscape! I'm gonna have to write that rant on my bathroom mirror to remind me what we're workin' for ::thumbs up::

Attached Link: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=207185&page=1&pp=15

Hmmm... maybe Poser is like a movie? You're the director and Poser is the set and you have your models/actors and you've got costumes and props and you got the lighting and the cameras. Quiet on the set! Action! Render! Hmmm... Poser Studio. Oh wait, that sounds familiar. :-P Anyways, some movies are art and some are.... eh. So, when's the instant animation button.

Real professionals know that you use tools to get the end result. Only insecure amateurs feel the need to bitch and whine about the tools you use. bonni

and bonni is right!! Not what you use to create your art is important but the final effect of your work. cath

I was once walking in an art gallery with my dad he asked me if I thought the photos of flowers presented in one exhibit were art? I answered No, if I went to the exact same place and took a picture at the same time of day the pictures would look the same, I could do that was my answer. I was 10 and as most 10 year olds didnt have a clue as to what actually went into the process of taking a good picture or for that matter what art truly is. My excuse is that I was young and ignorant. Art is about expression, now there is good art and bad art but thats an argument for another time. Most of these on-line snobs are confusing the definition of art with the ability to draw freehand (too bad there isnt an IQ requirement for internet access)

Nice, Robo!

Thanks for the support guys!

Well... My opinion Poser is art But not a 3D Art.I personnaly hate when someone uses only poser and call himself 3D Artist. My point of view, 3D artist is someone that knows what means: vertices, isoparm, nurbs, polygons,UV, skinning, IK, FK, Paint effect,..... You cannot tell that you are 3D Artist just by clicking clicking and clicking and then press render. Poser is a very wonderfull software specialy for individual and hobbist. Many Maya, 3D studio, and lightwave users hate poser because it has everything almost ready, and most poeple that makes pictures in poser will never be able make in a 3D develloper software. I like poser and almost all my projects are made in poser and I find that poser is ART!!! But instead of insulting some poeple to "closed mind and stupid..". Try to understand them.You have a character in 1 min and to make a character in Maya or 3D studio you need 1 month.

Poser is NOT modelling software. Just because I can't model a photorealistic character to save my life does not mean I'm not a 3D artist. 3D artist is not exclusively pertaining to modelling or rigging or animating or texturing. I do model in Max however I cannot create characters of the level of Poser characters (Vic, Mike & even ugly old Judy - sorry opera, just kidding!!)

In my ever so humble opinion Poser is indeed 3D art. Just cuz ya can't create your character from scratch in it does not devalue it as a creative tool in anyway.

Poser's not 3D art? Indeed!! What is it really then? Are there not polygons like in Lightwave or XSI? Are there not similar camera & lights like Maya & Max?

Poser may not have the best renderer but other than that and a modelling interface it's pretty much similar a tool as any other REAL 3D art producing program!

Thanks!

G
p.s. I've been a Max user long before I became a Poser User... p.p.s. all you "high end 3D art making program users" don't be hating!!!

Message edited on: 02/10/2005 13:31

"3D artist is someone that knows what means: vertices, isoparm, nurbs, polygons,UV, skinning, IK, FK, Paint effect,..... " Well. I guess that's one way to look at it. Although that sounds more like a technician than an artist to me ;) (...ducks away from the "what is art" thread...)

There's certainly some truth in the criticisms based on Poser images being assembled from other people's work -- meshes and poses and textures and all. But then you see a collage. I wouldn't try to define art, and I'm not sure that I know it when I see it, but a part of what makes art is how the artist assembles something which is more than the sum of its parts. Pictorial art is about making choices. Poser gives you a different set of choices.

How does cgtalk have al pacino and kurt russel when here nobody is famous? ;) People make collages out of things that they didn`t make. If a pile of bricks and an unmade bed are art then poser certainly is, too.

I tend to think that one being more interested in the technical aspects of it rather than the creative, ARTISTIC aspects would be the lesser artist... I mean what's more important? The end resulting ART or HOW you made it? I don't give two craps whether your scene has 1,000,000,000 polygons or 10,000! It's how it looks and how it makes me feel. Not trying to slam the tech heads... just the close minded.

Message edited on: 02/10/2005 13:41

Well, art will forever be one of those things that's......"in the eye of the beholder". I say express yourself however you feel. Is it art? IMO yes. We could easily say their art is mere photo manipulation, but hey, art is in all forms be it by brush, camera or graphire tablet. They need to realize this. Besides a lot of poser users start with poser, transfer to photoshop and spend 15 hours putting life into it! Yes!! It is ART!!

Maybe I didn t express myself very well. Poser is Art.But when it comes to 3D you cannot compare Poser and Maya for instance. Let s say I have my michael character, I m buying a hair package as well as a clothe package and a pose package and a ligth package and a prop background. I combine and comform everything and I render. So what is made by me???? I thought 3D art was supposed to be what you build inside a software and not what you get ready. Or maybe I m wrong, maybe I m focusing as you said on the technical aspect. But lets be honest! If there wasn t a litle bit true of what I m saying, why there is always this topic on the forum???

It's what you make your michael character do or say... is he just standing there? Well maybe that could be construed as pinup art. Is he fighting a robot or monster? SciFi or Fantasy art. Is he animated? Art, art, art! I suppose what I was trying to get across was that it's not the tools (Maya, Max, Xsi, Poser, Lightwave, Vicky, Michael or Judy) we use, it's what we say with them.

Attached Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3775957.stm

Probably because people like me (who have zero artistic ability) can get decent results!!!

You know how some people think. If all you do is assemble props pose a figure arrange the lights and make an image that its not really art.... Its like photography. And we all know that's not art.

Nor do I have any talent in photography.

If a pile of bricks and an unmade bed are art then poser certainly is, too. Or a bed covered with ham (see link). Sorry, just wanted to point out that your average "art critic" is a complete idiot. If society functioned like those types of critics, I could stand on a street corner with a miniature umbrella up my nose and say I'm a policeman, and would then be legally able to arrest people. Then someone would say "Well, if some guy standing on a street corner with a small umbrella up his nose is a policeman, then my boiling pot of feces is soup!". There is a time and place for avant garde art, as well as abstract art, but items like the above are just pure crap, stretching the meaning of "art" in much the same way that spyware EULAs stretch the term "user permission". Now excuse me while I attempt to convince Jim Burton to send me a copy of his dead horse so that I may render it in a temple with a nekkid Vicki beating it ;-P