I snapped up M3 the day he came out. Since the day one, various DAZ M3's head morph create "zit-like" polygon errors on the left side of the nose. I've uninstalled, and reinstalled M3, and head morphs on my Mac Poser 4 so many times I've lost count. I've faithfully updated my M3 countless times also. I even deleted him and replaced him with the new Free M3. And still, the Nose Zits remain. I've even gone through each morph to zero-in on the problem, and it seems numerous morphs cause the exact same problems, and problems compound on top of themselves the more morphs are applied to M3's face. It baffles me so why it's never been fixed. DAZ is usually pretty good about these things. In contrast, the Brom head morphs work perfectly, ....so smooth, ...so seamless. It makes me realize that I'm not supposed to be fighting with rogue head morph polygons like I have been for last few years. Surely I'm not the only person who's had this problem? When I've brought it up in the past before, I've had people tell me I'm imagining things, it's just my lighting, or it's natural to have nose "zits." *shaking head* The left side of M3's head has morph problems. I attached a wireframe picture to clearly illustrate the error. I've almost given up hope on a DAZ fix, so I would love to hear some suggestions on how I can fix the errors myself. Some nutty idea I have so far are: 1) Somehow editing the cr2 files so that the right side of the head (which is perfect) is flipped over to the right side of the head, overwriting the errors, and WA-la! Fixed! 2) Somehow zeroing in on the errant polygons, and manually moving them back into place to create a smooth surface. 3) Exporting the bad head morphs as OBJs into a 3d program that can somehow "blend", "average," or "smooth" out the bad polygons into place. *sigh* The trouble is, I really don't know how to do any of these fixes. Any suggestions? Thanks so much for any suggestions you may have. bB

Are the verts of the bad polys the same on both sides (can't tell from the picture) or is it an issue with the UV map (I wonder?). If it is the verts... You could bring the head into Wings3d (free) and move the verts into the correct position - then save the object, load as morph and your done. (I've left out detailed steps becuase it sound like you know the out>poser, in

Just on a lark I opened M3 and applied 10 noose morphs.

I'm not shoing the same problem you have.

Strange.

WHOA! That's a Beaut. What a Honker. ;)

Thanks for the replies. Yes, it's just one side of the nose that has an error.

Off the top of my head, these are suspected trouble makers:

NoseSmall
HdJapanese
HdAsian
HdAsian2

I need to run back through each and every morph in the head pack to find, and list them all. I'll need a bit of time to do that.

Perhaps because I have the MAC version of the M3 Head morphs is the reason why the morphs are wack?

Sadly, I can't run Wings3D on my Mac. I'm using OS9. :(
Is it easy to select individual vertices to fix the positioning?

bB

Message edited on: 03/01/2005 22:27

Okay, I have the first CONFIRMED error! Believe it or not, it's Eye Corners Down. Attached is an image with the morph cranked way up to show the error. Also note the crinkles under the nostril. I thought there was something wonky under the nose too, now I know I there really is. Okay, back to the Great Morph Error hunt.... bB

Okay, here are the confirmed errors so far: EyeCornerDown EyeCornerBack EyeCornerIn LacriminalSize LashesLong LashesUpFull LashesLoFull LashesUpStraight LashesLoStraight

Luke and Laura have weird going ons in some of their morphs too. Nothing super noticable but there none the less.

I see it too.

I'm going to have to give this some thought.

It's actually pulling holes in the mesh (as opposed to just moving the verts around).

Now why would it do that???

It's got to be a problem with the morph. (Guessing)

Your idea of halving the head and restitching it is interesting but I think it would mess with the vert order and cause terrible problems ( I believe Poser is very finicky about vert order - but I may be mistaken.)

Hmm... I haven't messed with Luke and Laura that much to notice. I use M3 99% of the time, and I do alot of close-ups too, so this problem just drives me crazy. Sure you can retouch your renders, but there's no way I'd rotoscope an animation just to fix pologon nose zits. I'm sure other people would feel the same. Here's the update on the Great Morph Error Hunt: Good news, all ear morphs are fine. Bad news, I found 5 more errors in the nose morph section, which brings the current total to 14 morph errors, that's 14.000x the distortion if all the morph errors at set at one. The nose errors are: NoseRidgeOut NoseBridgeOut NoseBridgeThin NoseBridgeUp NoseSlope To make it more obvious, I'm going to do a gif animation that show the movement of vertices in places that shouldn't be moving, (the right side of nose does not move, but the left side does). You can see the animation of the 5 nose morph errors listed above here: In this quick gif animation, I only used the 5 nose morphs. You can view the gif animation here 712k: http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/M3nosemorpherrors.gif Also, see the thread I started on DAZforums about this. Porthos has posted a picture of one of her characters that has the dreaded nose zit problem too. bB

Jeffg3, Is that how it looks in Poser 5? It looks worse! Eek! Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this. I know there's a program that mirrors morphs, so morph creators can save time. However, I know very little about it. It may just be for magnets. That's where I got the idea of "mirroring" the morph from the right side to the left. If this program can take a morph from one side of the face and flip it to the other. All M3's wonky head morphs can fixed very. very quickly! =) Wouldn't that be nice? =) bB

The program I was thinking of is at Poser++ http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/%7Emasasi/Service/indexE.html MT Mirror II http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/%7Emasasi/Service/mtm2.html Will this work?? bB <--- hopeful look

More news from The Great Nose Zit Morph Hunt: 21 more morph errors in the exact same trouble spots on the left side of the nose. From the Features Section: HairlineSmall TemplesIn BrowAngleUp BrowHeavy BrowSmall BrowSoft BrowsGone CheekBones CheekDimples CheekSink CheekBoneSmall JawFull JawSmall JawYoung MandibleSmall ChinCleft ChinProtude ChinSmall ChinStrong CheekCreaseR CheekCreaseL btw, I have made screen captures of every single morph error I've found, but for the sake of bandwidth, I won't load them on the forum. If anyone want to see all the screen captures for each morph error, please let me know. Thanks. So far the total number of errors are 35. So if those 35 morphs are set at 1.000 that would be like one bad morph being set to 35.000. That's the distortion amplified 35x! =0 Here are the confirmed errors so far: Eye: EyeCornerDown EyeCornerBack EyeCornerIn LacriminalSize LashesLong LashesUpFull LashesLoFull LashesUpStraight LashesLoStraight NOSE: NoseRidgeOut NoseBridgeOut NoseBridgeThin NoseBridgeUp NoseSlope Features: HairlineSmall TemplesIn BrowAngleUp BrowHeavy BrowSmall BrowSoft BrowsGone CheekBones CheekDimples CheekSink CheekBoneSmall JawFull JawSmall JawYoung MandibleSmall ChinCleft ChinProtude ChinSmall ChinStrong CheekCreaseR CheekCreaseL I'll continue to comb though the morphs tomorrow. Night all. bB

you can try contact DAZ about this. They created M3, so they will be best placed to solve it.

Just in case you want to see what the error looks like on character faces, here one with 3 faces I made recently. I used mostly Brom morphs but couldn't completely avoid using the Daz morphs that create the nose errors. bB

For some reason - my last post was deleted from this thread. Not happy about that! Anyhow, the fix to this is that someone needs to do the following. For each of the troublesome morphs: 1. Dial the morph to "1.0". Export the resulting head geometry as a morph target out of Poser. 2. Import this into your favourite modelling/morphing application (Best one would be ZBrush - see next step) 3. Correct the erronous vertices. Best way to do this would be in Zbrush as all you need to do is mask off all but the erronous areas and run the "Smart ReSym" tool, which will try to get the correct vertex positions from the other side of M3's head (i.e. will try to mirror in X). 4. Export the corrected geometry and re-import it into Poser to replace the old morph data. Boom. That's it. Of course, this going to be very time-consuming (there are a literal tonne of morphs to fix up as evidenced above). Still the question should be (given how easy it is to fix, as it's a known fact DAZ uses ZBrush), why hasn't it been done before now? The problem has existed for quite some time (as evidenced from the fact that it keeps popping up in this forum), and I would have thought - should have been fixed long ago. EK

EK,

Thanks for the reply. I don't what happened with your first post.

Wow, ZBrush sounds like a really great program. I have it on my wishlist.

I would have thought it would have been fixed by now too! I've know about it since Nov 26th, 2003!!!! I have to wonder if this were V3, would the errors have been fixed before now? sigh

Anyhoo, here is my final list of all the errors:

66 Head Morph Errors on the Left Side of Nose in the 8 polygon "zit" zone
(All errors are availible in screen capture form. Please email me for samples.)

NOSE = 4

NoseBridgeOut
NoseBridgeThin
NoseBridgeUp
NoseSlope

EXPRESSIONS = 16

BrowArchR
BrowArchL
RBrowUp
LBrowUp
BrowDownR
BrowDownL (NOTE: This is a mirror morph error on the Right side of nose and not Left!)
BrowFrownR
BrowFrownL (NOTE: This is a mirror morph error on the Right side of nose and not Left!)
BrowWorryR
BrowWorryL (NOTE: This is a mirror morph error on the Right side of nose and not Left!
Blink Left
Blink Right
EyeWince1L
EyeWince1R
EyeWince2L
EyeWince2R

EYE = 9

EyeCornerDown
EyeCornerBack
EyeCornerIn
LacriminalSize
LashesLong
LashesUpFull
LashesLoFull
LashesUpStraight
LashesLoStraight

FEATURES = 21

HairlineSmall
TemplesIn
BrowAngleUp
BrowHeavy
BrowSmall
BrowSoft
BrowsGone
CheekBones
CheekDimples
CheekSink
CheekBoneSmall
JawFull
JawSmall
JawYoung
MandibleSmall
ChinCleft
ChinProtude
ChinSmall
ChinStrong
CheekCreaseR
CheekCreaseL

MOUTH = 16

Philtrum
Philtrum2
PhiltrumIn
LipsStylized
LipsUpCurves
LipUpFull
LipUpRound
LipUpSides
LipUpThin
LipLoLarge
LipLoNarrow
LipLowFull
LipLowOut
LipLowThin
MouthNarrow
MthCrnrSml

EAR
-No Errors Found-

HEAD
-No Errors Found-

TEETH-GUMS
-No Errors Found-

Okay, now I have face poses that will turn on all bad morphs at the following settings:

.25
.5
.75
1.0

....and MORE IMPORTANTLY a zero pose of all bad morphs. This will be really handy for Character Developers. Just apply the face pose to turn off all morphs with errors in the dreaded 8-polygon-nose-"zit"-zone. All other dial settings will not be effected.

You can download the file here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/M3NoseMorphErrors.zip

Let me know if this works for you. I'm going to start using the zero pose myself to fix all my character faces. At least that's something. I'm ready to email Daz Tech support now. I think it's only a matter of time until the errors get fixed or there'll be some good work-arounds for us.

Thanks for your feedback gang. =)

bB

Message edited on: 03/02/2005 20:59

Hi Eternl_Knight, Your previous post hasn't been deleted, as it never appeared in the thread at all. (We keep a record of deletions.) What probably happened was server timeout- if it takes too long for you to make your post, while the page is sitting idle, you can get thrown out of the thread and back to the main forums page without your post being actually made. (This usually happens to me when I'm halfway through replying and then my little boy calls me. Come back, press post, no reply!) Sorry for the confusion and inconvenience. Karen Poser Mod

GREAT NEWS!! Capsces, (The Guru of Morphs) has a fix pose for the bad M3 morphs! IT WORKS!!! The fix is posted on the DAZ forum here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=201591#201591 bB