I would love to see a symmetry option added to this tool, it would come in handy when grouping garments, work on both sides of the garment at the same time, would be extremely productive, also other features added to this tool would be killer as well. One other feature that would be a time saver would being able to copy the group selection and paste it onto another garment part creating the same group for that garment, I hope CuriousLabs reads this and considers it.

Good idea. I'd just love to see more details about P6. We know they've improved lighting, but how much longer is it going to take? OpenGL support is not that big a deal for me. I also find it insulting that they're trying to sell it without telling us everything it does. It doesn't say much about their respect for their customers.

I would like to see them release the manual a couple weeks early. Oh wait is it due in a couple weeks? CL - HINT! HINT!

That would be ideal, but I'd be happy knowing all the new features and improvements they eventually planned to get working. More sample renders would also be great, like the "dancing judy" they did for P5. Well, they might tell and show us eventually. They might get my money, eventually...

And I have a thought of another that would be great also, a freehand selection tool instead of being stuck with a square marquee selector, man this would spead things up enormously. Please post your ideas for the grouping tool here and maybe Curiouslabs will add it :)

You can give us more camera dots as well, would be great when doing all kinds of production

At this point nothing is getting added to P6. With 2 weeks to delivery about the only thing going on now is preparation for release. Marketing materials, manuals getting printed, CD's getting pressed, shipping of the product to retailers (if thats not already happening), getting ready for the huge amount of downloads, and possibly the hiring of a company in Bali for support ;) They are pretty much bracing for impact Make notes of things you want to see and then let them know when they ask for P7 ideas. Caveat: I don't know any of this firsthand. This is just an observation of how most companies operate. If they are still beta testing you will not see a shipping product in 2 weeks unless they are also miracle workers. Either way no new features are being developed at this point.

"At this point nothing is getting added to P6." Exactly. They'd probably reached that point months ago.

Message edited on: 03/04/2005 09:29

A pointer tool to pick an existing group would be useful, especially to fix mixed reverse normals on imported 3D objects and to assign materials. Some imported objects have hundreds of individually grouped parts, with names that aren't meaningful (cylinder876 for a tailpipe). I recognize that this is a P7 request.

We've got an "add by material" button. How about "remove by material" to go with it?

All the details of Poser 6 are supposed to be released on the 10th. I would think that would probably mean a downloadable copy of the user manual.

I suspect whatever features they have ready for beta testing early adopters by the 10th will be "new in P6." Anything else will go into P7. I really doubt they even know what all the new features will be at this point, just developing as fast as they can. If they had committed to more features earlier, they'd have more $$$ earlier.

Why wait? Let's start those Poser 7 wishlists now. Barring some "PERSONAL" feelings by others out there in PoserLand, I think CL has done a great job. Crosstalk was a MAJOR pain to many, they fixed it. There were a number of items folks asked for and here they are in version 6. I see version 6 as the transition version of Poser, with Poser 7 (being optimistic here) being the new version with a fresh code base. With a new version some years away, our previous requests, rants and demands, plus a new corporate outlook, why can't we start helping them plan for 7. I'm sure they have ideas that didnt make the cut for 6 that will top the list for version 7. Of course, let's enjoy version 6 when it gets here. (Now where did I put my Asbestos Internet Gear? I got a feeling....)

dlfurman, yeah, can I have some of that Gear too. :) The only big gripe I have is because I stay involved with it is Python support. I'd really like to see all the methods and such of the current Poser functions represented and represented correctly in Poser Python.

New features not withstanding, the single biggest thing they need to do, IMHO, is to improve the rendering. The so-called 2 gig memory limit (I've seen this broken on my machine by P5 many times) and the inability to render complex scenes (try rendering three of Hankster's Vankwishes and see what happens, just way too many polys). If something like Vue can render MUCH more complex scenes without taking all the memory and wanting more, then why can't Poser? Basically what this means is Poser is just a scene creation tool, and renders need to be done elsewhere. So while they're creating all these fancy new RENDERING features, they will become marginally useful because they can't handle multiple, high-poly objects.

WHUMP (fell off soapbox ;))

I'll second Netherworks on wanting a more complete Python API.
Even better would be a proper SDK.

@JeffAlberts
The 2GB memory limit is an Operating System limit.

It's fine that it's an operating system limit. My point was there are other apps that render BETTER than poser, at comparable prices, that don't worry about memory at all. I mean, I casn start a complex render in Vue and then do other stuff on the same computer without my machine being dragged to a crawl. Not so with Poser. And I've still seen P5 exceed the 2 gig limit (combined VM and Actual RAM), maybe it was just a refresh issue with task manager, but I've seen it.

IMHO, content creators should watch polygon sizes to begin with. If often look at things in wireframe and often, I'm like OMG, that's a bit much. Any generation 3 Mil figure is demanding in polygon size by itself - which I feel was not thought through terribly well. It would be nice, OTOH, to have Poser handle those meshes better during the rendering. Sounds spooky - "the rendering" :) What's a Vankwish? I did product searches here and DAZ and didn't come up with anything.

Not sure what it's officially called, in fact I don't see Hankster listed on here as a merchant any more. Hmm. Anyway, it's basically the Aston Martin Vanquish, and goes at over 400k polygons.

Whew - that's a lot. Not to derail, but does that bring down Daz Studio also? Just curious.

No idea, tried DAZ Studio once and since it doesn't handle deformers, didn't go back. Yeah it is a lot, but I've had poser hang with three mil figures and some kitchen props the same way it hangs with one of those cars and two mil figures. Don't want to turn this thread into other threads on the subject, just suffice to say I think the renderer needs a lot of help that has nothing to do with how the renders look.

See this is what I'm talking about. :) 1) Additional options for the Grouping Tool. 2) We want better/more complete Python support. Do we want the folks at CL to build in a better render engine? Does/Will this fit in with plans to play nice with other apps (Vue, Bryce, Lightwave, MAX) Do we care? (Interesting thought here. Do we want Poser to fully GO PRO? Should CL do different versions ala Version 4 and the ProPack. We cannot forget about the hobbyists, or should we? I'd fall into that hobbyist group.) Do we want 64-bit OS requirement for versions 7+ (figure by the time 7 gets here)? 64-bit computing that will handle memory waaaaay better (we hope). Note that the requirments for version 6 are Win2K or XP (better memory management with those OS than with Win98/SE/ME. Love to hear from you Mac folks about changing OS).

I'll just repeat a comment made in 3DWorld Magazine: "...the animation tool now need overhauling". -3D World Issue 62 pg102 - Buyer's Guide. When I got Poser, it was because all the other animation tools with a bone and IK system were a bit too expensive for me. However, as the prices for them drop and Poser's animation tools get left in the dust, I can't help but wonder why CL haven't improved the animation features. Renders are nice and all but not really where my concerns are right now.

So is it about animation? How very important is animation? With Animated films winning Academy Awards(tm) are new hobbyists looking for tools to do animation and not just "a pretty picture"? Will the inexpensive package that allows for animation be the winner in the next go round? We got the lights every one is asking for (I guess) so now we have the set lit, now we want to animate?

The one thing that I would drool over is something along the line of the Morph Putty tool, but that wouldn't have to rely on existing morphs. Instead of having Morph Putty tool push and pull existing morphs around, build a control in that is something like ZBrush's morph tool. Having something like that built right into Poser would be a dream. It would make character and clothing morphs SO much easier!

"So is it about animation?
How very important is animation?"

Judging purely from personal experience as well as observing the 3D market on many levels over the past 5 years, animation is king in 3D. It's where the big money is for professionals, and it's where the 3D medium truely makes its efficiency known.

I know for a fact that the Poser community in general is lightyears behind the curve of what is cutting edge in the animation genre, and it's not simply because of the lack of new animation features, but mainly because most of the users, who have been with Poser since the early versions, come from a 2D/still image (drawing, painting) background. I see this changing now though, as new, seemingly younger users are introduced to the app (since P4 pro pack/P5). These are users who got interested in 3D from what they've seen in movies (from ToyStory to LOTR to Finding Nemo), and have a great interest in creating animations.

"Will the inexpensive package that allows for animation be the winner in the next go round?"

Well, Poser is already inexpensive, and can do fairly complex animations in the right hands (with the aid of Python scripting). I suspect if they improve the render speed, and integrate network rendering capability natively, it will have much more success in this area. It can definitely stand to improve on it's animation toolset, but right now I see the main problem with it being its lack of speed, memory efficiency, and workflow.

Message edited on: 03/04/2005 23:41

Full support for all human-type figures in the face room would be nice.

Message edited on: 03/05/2005 04:03

A button in the setup room to centre the axis to help with making mechanical figures and eyes.

A UV Mapper would be nice. No UV Mapper Pro for Mac:( A UV room would rock. 64 bit is the future. Like it or not. CL will need to go 64 bit or loose out to someone who will. Multithreading is also necessary. All high end 3d apps are multithreaded. As chip manufacturers move to multi core chips apps that dont handle multiple processors will be performing at half to less than half the speed of those that do. At least the renderer should be mutli threaded. Also the renderer should have a command line interface to allow renders to 1. use less resources 2. Allow the user to continue working on other projects within the app while the renderer pushes the results out to a file. I dont expect to see this yet in Poser but it should be in the development path for V7 or 8.

Animated thumbnails, so you can see the effect of a pose file in an on/off way, or see the effect of a multi-frame PZ2. To accomplish this, Poser could simply read aniGIFs along with PNGs. (I mentioned this before in a separate thread)

P7 or P8??? Six isn't even released yet! "PLay nice with other apps." Oh, please, yes, let it be! Proffessional App vs. the Hobbyist? More modest proffessional uses absolutely but it will never stand in for the workers who need to create a battlefield full of thousands. I'm setting myself up for a fall there since I've already done my own large battelfield scenes but I didn't have them all in poser at once. And the hobbyist? Not a minimal market. It's like talking about all those Playstation hobbyists. Will that market grow or join the ranks of other hobbies that come and gone? Games, now making more money than the Movie Industry. Sorry, I went totally off topic. Gooooo Poser 10! I mean, 6.

Welp my dream for Poser 7 is for CL to dump all old models, create new figures and end the Daz licencing of models. Next CL to open their own brokerage and tie it to Content Paradise. Give Daz a run for their money and create more community by breaking up the Daz strangle hold on the market. Oh and if the room in Poser 7 isn't being used, dump it from memory to free up all resources. one can dream, all the sugjetions sound great so far. oh oh and a friggin lightwave plugin for gewds sake!!! Sorry, couldn't resist.

Not to start anything but in my opinion CL should stick to making software and DAZ should stick to content. Why? Unless a sepeare business unit is handeling each section both projects will be doomed to fail. Alias is not selling content for their program (At least not an offering comparing to DAZ's) They are selling software that offers flexibility. So much so that companyies can create their own physics and have objects reract to those physics. Now I am sure there is pleanty of money to be made in content. especially since Poser is such a niche product. But over emphasis on content at the cost of software development could prove catosrophic for an already dated codebase. I'm not certain what's going on behind the scenes but i do see a few interesting developments. First off I don't see too much talk coming from them. I like this. Their responses are calculated and precise. If the company as a whole is operating like this the codebase might be getting a tune up. (Talk less- hear more theory) Second from what it seems P6 is addressing some Major issues. Basically the things that were keeping Poser from being regarded as a serious 3d app. 1. hardware acceleration - if that wasn't in P6 you may as well carved the tombstone. 2. tweaks to the renderer. firefly is good. not perfect, but very very good. fix a few bugs and update the lighting and you will see some amazing things. 3. fix some of the major UI bugs. (I'm not sure these were addressed but I have to believe some of the majors issues were reworked) 4. stability (i hope this was looked at. it would be a shame if all the rooms were not polished) P6 should end up being what P5 should have/could have been if Poser did not change hands 3 times in 4 -5 years. Every time a company changes hands things get messy for a while until a new direction is defined and steps are taken to move the codebase in that direction. That happened several times in a few years for this code. (ON 2 PLATFORMS!!!) Look at the difference in computer components in that time: When Metacreations owned Poser I was on a 250 mhz Apple G2 PPC6500 with 128meg of ram. Now there is a Dual 2.5 GHZ 64 bit G5 with 8 gigs max. If the owners of the codebase optimized the code for hardware each time the company changed hands or a new CEO took over they would - well they would be right where they are now- late. I'm sure allot of mistakes were made by every owner of the codebase. I'm also sure the current owners will make their fair share of mistakes. If, However; you take into account all the hands the code has passed through, the current state of Poser (P5) is pretty amazing. Far from perfect, buggy, and slow, but amazing. In a few days we will all get to see what P6 has in store. More mistakes will be made for sure. It would be foolish of them not to have a team ready for to push SR1 out in a couple months. That is to be expected. But I think this time Poser will be, at the least more polished.

To Deci6el, nothing was off topic persay. You raise an interesting point. OK now....some additions: We had (from #22 above) 1) Additional options for the Grouping Tool. 2) We want better/more complete Python support. and now... 3) 64-bit app, uses capabilities of CPU (Multi-threading) 4) Better animation tools 4a) Animated Thumbnails for multiframe .pz2 5) Built-in UV Mapping? 6) Built-in Morphing Tool for ALL types of Models. 7) CL/POSER should play nice with other apps. 8) No complaning when SR1 comes out for Poser6. Should CL gear itself for use in the Gaming Market? Should CL position itself ala Discreet and leave content to third parties or take a chance and create a content division? Keep going folks....