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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 23 7:38 pm)
Subject: Bit of a - double standards - rant
Gill, don't let it bother you--a large number of artists who have actually made their mark on the world have featured male beauty in their work, either because they are gay and that's what appeals to them, or because they simply are able to appreciate the beauty of the male form. It's a sad aspect of human nature, and our society, that we haven't yet learned to deal with human diversity, but fortunately there are many people, including art critics, art historians, and gallerists, who "get it."
lol. I can agree Gill too from what I have read in others galleries as I don't have any Male's posted in mine. It does seem ridiculous to me too But in understanding the male mind(slightly) I can understand why they are this way. lol. Men think of Sex on a daily basis at least 5 to 10 times AS many times as woman. They tend to associate certain things like nudity w/ those thoughts. lol. So being as that they are so preocupied w/ those thoughts it makes sense that when they see nudity they tend to automatically think of Sex and if it is a male they tend to go on the offense/ deffense (I don't like Guys, ect...) kick. As Woman we are not usually so preocupied w/ these thoughts as men. And As Girls we act diffently than men. Think about it... We go to the bathroom together, change clothes in front of each other, ect... And think nothing of it. Imagine if a guy asked another guy to acompany him to the bathroom! ? lol. They would probablly say WHAT? " Are you Gay Dude or what? " lol. Guys don't ask other guys how thier butt looks in a new pair of jeans or if a new shirt makes them look Hot! lol. We do though. And as I said We are not so hung up on and obsessed w/ Sexual thoughts as they are, Therefore, we can look at and appreciate the body in art. Men are normally too busy wondering/thinking about Sex to look at these pics the same way as we do. And even in this community where many are anonymous the men still worry about another man thinking that they are Gay simply cause of a comment on a digital art pic! IMO MOST men are superficial Babies that are always associating just about everything w/ Sex and inuendos. uuuuhhhhh... Don't yell at me Guys! I said Most, not all! And my conclusions/opinions are based on what I have been told by MEN! lol. Of Course, that is MY Opinion! Rhonda
i might also add, its NOT pointless to post them, randym. that's bordering on conformity, allowing the community to dictate what you're going to create, or put into YOUR gallery. where is the art in that? sure, you'll proly get the same snide comments as above, but you'll also get other comments from people who actually can appreciate the beauty of the human form in both genders, regardless of whether its clothed or unclothed. E.D.
And then ...
................................... there's ............................ NaySayGuy!
;=] (edited to remove all x-rated material - before the Mods see it, heh heh)
Message edited on: 03/10/2005 08:44
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
i might also add, its NOT pointless to post them, randym. that's bordering on conformity, allowing the community to dictate what you're going to create, or put into YOUR gallery.
I don't allow anyone to dictate what I create. I don't post everything I make here. Heck, I don't post everything I make anywhere. I believe art is communication, and the first rule of communication is "know your audience."
That said...I do think this sort of thing tends to be a "positive feedback loop." The early days of the net were very much male-dominated, and this site (like many others) very much reflects a male viewpoint. People who don't care for that don't hang around. They go elsewhere.
I think it's the same with the emphasis on fantasy. Poser wasn't meant to be a fantasy product. The stuff P4 and P5 came with was everyday clothing like suits and t-shirts. But net users, especially in the early days, were very much into fantasy. Even CL is getting with the program, with their "winter queen" package.
It's not just social conformity. The dominant viewpoint is also expressed in the marketplace. A lot of people post images of their new purchases...and there's a lot more to purchase for Vicky than for Mike. Similarly, if you're in the business of industrial training videos, you might look around DAZ's site, see only princess gowns and dragons, and assume Poser/D|S is not the product for you. So people who might broaden the focus of the community simply don't join.
I my opinion, in addition to the ThinkOfSexSixTimesADay syndrome, it is also because of the loss of The King in Western culture. The pleasure of depicting the male as the hero of his own story and the prime mover of his world is now politically incorrect.
Yeah, that probably explains why Lord of the Rings was a such a flop.
The Poser gallery is overflowing with images of females YAHHHHHHHH-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The pleasure of depicting the male as the hero of his own story and the prime mover of his world is now politically incorrect.
I like politically incorrect.
In fact, I LOVE it.
That's one reason why the galleries need to be filled with females. Because it irritates the obsessively PC. And that's all to the good.
(uh.....they've got a lot more power than some claim.......a LOT more......)
I've mentioned this before, but I think that it bears repeating:
One of the many inherent contradictions of the feminists has to do with their attitude towards masculinity......
An attitude which involves belittling something, and denying its importance -- while at the same time desperately trying to imitate it. Message edited on: 03/10/2005 09:51
human beings
As the game show host would say: "She's a really fine human being.......".
It's difficult to compliment the obvious.
But I wouldn't have it any other way.
Women are my favorite people. For some hard-to-figure-out reason.
My wife doesn't complain.
However.....it's true.........in the past, people would look at her, and then they'd look at me -------
........."What did she marry you for?"
Heh....Heh.....I loved it.
Please -- keep the gallery full of females.
I'm all for that.
"that's bordering on conformity, allowing the community to dictate what you're going to create, or put into YOUR gallery. where is the art in that?" I agree with the double standard being pointed out. Women can be ogled, men cannot be ogled. Even by women (it is still played for humor or sexual innuendo in popular culture, which is a signal of base level acceptance, not propriety). However, that is the standard by which this community exists. However, it is the fundamental nature of a community (by definition, in a rather literal sense, in some circles) to dictate -- either by acceptance, disavowal, disapproval, or disassociation -- exactly what is and is not acceptable within it. Including, perhaps most importantly, art. In turn, a community shapes the artist's experiences and thereby their vision. So, it's probably just my sickness, but I sorta had to take a tiny bit of winking umbrage at that statement. That said, I'm going to go lie down and take more meds...
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
As Starlight kindly points out not all us men are 'homeophobic babies' who can't look at an image of a naked man without getting all uncomfortable lol, I've seen many superb pieces of art on this site featuring male characters (pin-ups or otherwise) but I can understand you getting annoyed by such comments - it's not exactly polite. Come on guys - your letting the side down :) Oh, and how about the other side of the coin while we're at it? - I've seen many a comment from the ladies complaining about the breastsize of female pin-ups but I've yet to see one from a guy complaing some dude is hung like a donkey ;P
Phily; here would be the hand in question; http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=874907 & to keep on topic; Although I can claim in no way to be a "Art Historian" of any sort, I do enjoy art of many styles & forms. And offhand, I can't tink of male nudidity bein' really "popular" scince the days of Olympus & Rome. Yet I can recall many examples of female nudidity through every historical era & art "movement" . So I cannot believe the problem is one unique to this community, is more like one ingrained in society itself. Personally, I blame the....n/m, this isn't the time or place fer that discussion
WARNING!
This user has been known to swear. A LOT!
I agree with the double standard being pointed out. Women can be ogled, men cannot be ogled. Even by women
That's an interesting observation.
Do you happen to recall the fairly recent Michael Jordan TV commercial......the ad which consisted of two giggly women sitting on a park bench, guessing "boxers or briefs?" as various men walked past.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if the commercial had instead featured a couple of men sitting on the same bench......asking each other "white cotton or satin?" as women strolled by..........
Now -- what was that idea about who is allowed to ogle who without creating PC outrage in the process.........?
Be well. And I mean that.
I hope that you feel better soon.
Thanks, X "I wonder what the reaction would have been if the commercial had instead featured a couple of men sitting on the same bench......asking each other "white cotton or satin?" as women strolled by.........." You can judge it frequently for yourself -- it is on display in most convenince stores and many automobile covers. The Victoria's Secret fashion show is a perfectly acceptable venue for doing it. Indeed, I recall, vaguely, a particular incident pretty much exactly as you describe in a much older example -- featuring a celebrity who is arguably as famous as Jordan is today (though not at the time). Episode of Bosom Buddies, where the pair of men were indeed wondering what was being worn (cotton or lace, though, I believe, was the discussion) in the way you describe to some extent (although I believe it wasn't in a park). And you know perfectly well there is a large difference between PC outrage and actual social role norm challenges. Shame on you. ;)
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
As Starlight kindly points out not all us men are 'homeophobic babies' who can't look at an image of a naked man without getting all uncomfortable lol
Oh, I just love the predictable assignation of PC dogma to the motives of people that one doesn't know from Adam........
FYI -- looking at men is about as interesting as watching grass grow. It's about on the same level as a soft drink ad for its inherent appeal.
In other words, it's just background noise to me. Chances are that I won't notice it.
And if I do happen to notice it by some accident -- it'll be a real yawner.
Matters of personal taste cannot be argued over with any degree of "correctness".
But I think that I can safely say that I have a good grasp of the majority view...........the majority view by a wide margin.......
Have you ever noticed that almost all of the magazines at grocery store checkouts feature cover photos of attractive young women in bikinis -- including women's magazines? Once in a while, you'll see a man on the cover -- but very, very rarely.
Why?
Simple. Because the publishing industry knows what will sell magazines.
And it ain't pictures of men.
"Oh doody, .......... me go an' dude it ....... rite now!"
"Um, by da weigh ...how do ya do da drool?"
"Fanks"
- NSG - 2005 (edited to remove the plethora of profanity uttered by NSG after he found out what a drool was) (editor's note - actually, it wasn't profanity ... but it wasn't intelligible either)
Message edited on: 03/10/2005 12:03
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
I just had the feeling if I waited long enough, he'd figure it out on his own. Rare for the poser forum at rosity, but even NSG has his moments...
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
And you know perfectly well there is a large difference between PC outrage and actual social role norm challenges. Shame on you. ;)
True.....
However, Chippendale's will never make the kind of money that Victoria's Secret does. Not even close.
It's got something to do with human nature.
And these aren't "learned" roles -- it goes a lot further back than that..........
Give the little boy a Barbie to play with, and he'll pretend that it's a gun.
Give the little girl a toy truck to play with, and she'll talk to the truck.
I think in terms of being objectified, men won't ever be able to compete with women. But there are certain genres in poser art like war or fight images where substituting a woman for a man would not have the same effect. Sometimes when I see a scene with lady cops or female soldiers and no men, it has more of sexual context than the grit that would be there if it were co-ed or all male. Not to sound sexist, but there is certain imagery that without a male present it doesn't have the same effect. Conversely, there are some imagery where substituting a man for a woman doesn't give the same effect either.
'Simple. Because the publishing industry knows what will sell magazines. And it ain't pictures of men.' It's not rocket science. Men like to look at women (sex) and women like to look at women (empathy, empowerment etc). It's a win-win scenario. 'Once in a while, you'll see a man on the cover -- but very, very rarely.' ...ya - he's called Brad Pitt ;) ***** BTW were you having a go at me in post 36? I don't think so but I like to know where I stand :) I ascribe motives to noone FYI I was quoting an earlier post which appears to have been edited :(
aka - the "human" syndrome ... or should that be sindrome? Anyhow, it's a proven fact that: Little boys play with soldiers. Little girls play with dolls. Big boys play with dolls. Big girls play with soldiers. It's a funny world. ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
but there is certain imagery that without a male present it doesn't have the same effect.
The NFL doesn't field all-female football teams.
There must be a reason for that. Perhaps they are just being sexist..........
BTW were you having a go at me in post 36? I don't think so but I like to know where I stand :) I ascribe motives to noone FYI I was quoting an earlier post which appears to have been edited :(
Sorry if I mis-read your post.
In case if I haven't mentioned it already: Political Correctness irritates me.
You don't come across as someone that I'm likely to "have a go" with. You sound reasonable.
I think art in some way should reflect reality. There's such a thing as pushing the envelope to open boundaries for women to pursue traditionally male ventures. But in a lot of poser art, the message is unfortunately about sexual fantasies rather than an actual social statement. If there was a female NFL team don't you think they would be as padded as the male teams rather than something like the lingerie bowl.
aka - the "human" syndrome ... or should that be sindrome?
*Anyhow, it's a proven fact that:
Little boys play with soldiers.
Little girls play with dolls.
Big boys play with dolls.
Big girls play with soldiers.
It's a funny world.
;=]*
That's a good one, Doc......LOL.
If there was a female NFL team don't you think they would be as padded as the male teams rather than something like the lingerie bowl.
You might have an idea, there.
It would have a built-in male audience, anyway.
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The Poser gallery is overflowing with images of females in various states of dress or undress. I, like many other women look through the galleries and comment on the ones that I like, regardless of the gender of the subject. I don't say things like - "EWWWW it's a girl", "Not exactly my type", "Wrong gender for me"....etc., etc., - I simply comment on the artwork as I see it, as do most if not all the other female artists here who leave comments. Then why, oh why do is see comments from MALES in the galleries on male subjects (those who actually have the NERVE to comment on them) do they contain such phrases?? Some even appear to be complaining because the subject is male. Those same males rave and gush on any NVIATWAS images - but see a male render, clothed or otherwise and they get so homeophobic it creeps me out! Even fewer are the male artists who actually CREATE images with male subjects in them - particularly the pinup variety, yet again, the female artists here have no qualms about creating beautiful images containing the female form. Any guys out there who bother to read this - please grow up and learn to see art as it is, not treat the gallery as a place just for female totty eh?? Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for ages and I got to the point of having to have my say!!!
Gill