First, I'd want to see the letter telling them to stop. I drove through Missouri once, and it was enough to make me a "show me" kinda guy. If it is true, it's one of the stupidist things CL could do. How many sites support Poser and use the name? Most everyone has hit PoserPro's, but what about PoserWorld? PoserStyle? MalePoser? These sites, by their existance and name, actually help Poser sales. Who wants a 3D modeling program without support? Likewise, it's the Poser community that keeps the product alive. This is not the way to win friends and influence people.

" To ExistentialDisorder: I'm afraid Cooler's right. You can copyright a word, if you want to spend the money and go through the legal trouble. Marvel Comics, believe it or don't, owns the word 'mutant.' And while they're not very strict about its public use, they make damned certain no other comic company uses it. It's why DC coined the phrase 'metahuman'. Also, the word 'xerox' is copyrighted. Technically, any time you use it it's supposed to be capitalized and though it's common practice to do otherwise, it's not supposed to refer to making copies. It's supposed to be used to refer to the machine that makes copies."

No you cannot either copyright or "own" a word. You can however trademark it (literally a "mark of trade" representing a business & their goods/services). However a trademark does have some restrictions. It is industry specific and outside of that industry can be freely used even trademarked by a different type of business.

Using the example of Marvel Comcs & "mutant". Assuming they have trademarked the term they can only restrict it's use WRT to comic books & the characters involved. Legally there is nothing they can do if I want to open a chain of restaurants named "Mutantburgers". edited to add: *"...and DON'T call me Shirley"*Message edited on: 03/10/2005 17:27

This is not the way to win friends and influence people. Since when have Curious Labs ever, EVER known how to build confidence from their userbase, though? Bascially, it's the same old same old. They haven't learned anything from their previous escapades and missteps. bonni

Would be nice if someone from CL spoke up about the matter. Not wanting any confidences broken, just an explanation of what their beef is when it comes to use of the P word. Howsomever, I don't think I'm gonna hold my breath waiting.

"Howsomever, I don't think I'm gonna hold my breath waiting. " No cause then you'd be a Blue Byrdie :)

I was thinking more like a dead duck. But hey, whatever works...^^

OK, hows this; all the sites with (unmentionable word) in their name move shop up here to Canada & substitute (unmentionable word) with "Hoser"? (For those who don't know, Hoser is a Canadian "term of endearment" ;-) Personally, if I saw sites like FreeBassPros, FreeBass++, FreeBass City, FreeBass Style, etc etc...I'd be sayin' "WOOHOO!! Free advertisin'!!!

"Duz this mean we need a new word fer 80's hair & makeup bands?"

We always called 'em Poodle Rockers ;)

cooler says: "Using the example of Marvel Comcs & "mutant". Assuming they have trademarked the term they can only restrict it's use WRT to comic books & the characters involved. Legally there is nothing they can do if I want to open a chain of restaurants named "Mutantburgers"."

Well, I'm going to assume you know a lot more about this than I ever will. Tho I probably used the wrong terms my facts were valid/true. Marvel has copyrighted (or 'trademarked') the word 'mutant'. And if 'Mutantburgers' came anywhere near what they thought was an infringement on their property, don't think they wouldn't try to stop you. Trust me on this. I have a letter from their lawyers in my basement threatening to sue me for a minor infraction of one of their characters. kmw

kmw - I believe Marvel may have trademarked "X-men", but I doubt they would be foolish enough to waste time and money in trademarking "mutant", unless they sell a comic book titled "Mutant".

"The forum formally known as Poser" and then we use a wierd symbol that no-one can pronounce, like this . Didn't work for an artist formarly known as symbol, now known as Prince, who was formerly known as Prince. Um... something like that.

They seem to have this bizarre delusion that anything and everything "mutant" is theirs by Divine Right. Just like a certain author thinks anything "vampire" is hers via the same mystical process, and another one has a similar fixation with "dragons". Unhealthy, if you ask me ;-)

My friend TESS tells me there are two registered trademarks for the single word mutant... #78472727 Rednex Inc in S. Carolina for motorcycle frames #78264724 AI BEAU CO., LTD. in Osaka, Japan for eye/sunglasses, goggles, etc now Marvel does have or (had) Mutant X, New Mutants, Mutant Gear, X-Men Mutant Gear, etc registered but there is no record that they ever had or even applied for a trademark on just plain "mutant"

wouldn't ya know there'd be a 'Poseur' out there..nah..I liked some of the big hair bands back in the day (when I had little hair, well, maybe more hair than I do now..;)..but then I originally was gonna be 'gadfly'..but someone beat me to it..;) I guess we could always be the 'not Daz | Studio forum'..;)
btw..if there is a legal action in motion, Curious Labs would be 'advised by council' not to say anything about it, so you're not likely to find out anything...

Why does cooler always have to throw a cool blanket on things by injecting facts and truth? thats what I want to kno.

Aren't my opinions and hot hatreds enough? Who made cooler the prince of truth just because they know what their talking about? That should not be enough.

I'm afraid Cooler's right. pakled
So what?!!?? If i think that 'trademark' 'copyright' and 'patent' are interchangeable terms, then I AM RIGHT.

Aren't I? Or maybe i am just a poser, in the dictionary sense of the 'word'.

1. boring is in my job description 2) My coronation was this past Septober 33rd in the courtyard of the Basilica of Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, (the chapel at Blessed Mother of Acceleration was booked). Didn't you get your invitation? 3) Murphy's Law #56. Interchangeable parts won't

Boring is my job description...
'boring' is no excuse. The truth is always boring and terrifying. Hence its low rate of acceptance.

My new site will be named coolerpose.com or popularposetruth.com. I will expect very few hits. But, on the plus side, no litigatation.

1. Murphy's Law #56. Interchangeable parts won't They will with a big enough hammer.... heh

I love the domain name of "coolerpros.com". lol

Pass me a "Kleenex", and "Xerox" me a copy, and that dumb-founding question sure is a "Poser" to me.

Had a look at the final Poser 6 info on CL website: thought maybe they'd been planning something of their own called "Poser Free Store" - but doesn't look like it - the new Content Paradise's Free Stuff area is just called "Free Stuff"

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that "Xerox" doesn't wish to be copied....... .....ok...I'm going.....

There's a large IBM plant in my town. The employees are not allowed to use the word "Xerox." They "IBM" things. Seriously! As in, "Karen, IBM a copy of this for the file." Meanwhile, Xerox tries to keep people from using their name as verb, for fear of losing their trademark. They always say "photocopy."

Why not rename to The Poseur Forum? :P

Attached Link: http://www.posermax.com

But are the P***r Free folks absolutely certain this is not some kind of prank being played on them? Lot of cyberhoaxes & such going on lately -- look at the latest e-bay/paypal scam.
Were it me, I'd take every step possible to verify the origins of anything like that before going into panic mode & shutting my site down. After all, this could be the work of a jokester ... or someone with a grudge.

Message edited on: 03/11/2005 10:00

Qualien says: "Why does cooler always have to throw a cool blanket..." 'cooler'? 'cool blanket' on things? Amusing choice of words... :) kmw

what did I say about cooler? I'm lost here, folks..;) Actually, Trademark, patent, and copyright are similar concepts, but any lawyer will tell you they're very different animals, with different levels of protections and obligations.
I'm not too worried about whatever name they give the web sites, as long as the URL's don't change..just more updatin' to do..

Excuse me for being totally dense but when does a mesh object constitute "software"? All of the "Poser" sites I visit have meshes. CL is selling "software" as far as I can determine.

nickedshield, For legal purposes, (copyright, trademark, etc.) 3D mesh objects are considered software.

and remember that a 3D Object isn't really an "object" it's a bunch of co-ordinate data/code and Data/Code = Software. If you're able to claim purchasing of 3D models for your work, you list them as "Software" in your tax statements too.

Thank you cooler and bigjobbie I learned something useful.

I wonder if it is a content paradise issue. Sixus is now PoserForums, PoserProducts, and Poserfreebies; which is awfully close to Poser Free Products. Maybe they decided it was too close.

Has anyone thought it was perhaps Poser was seperated from the other word (I'm just tossing Ideas here. I haven't been to the other forementioned sites in a while and don't know how they have it listed) So what I'm saying is that they may not of wanted Poser-Free-Store but would of been ok with poserfreestore. Donna know, any of you law-ers out there wanna edumatacte me?

Curious Labs could do us a favor and explain just what their attitude or policy is. We should know if it's been changed. It could be a real mess if all those Poser web sites need to change their names and domain registrations.

Some of the differences between Trademark & Copyright (or Intellectual Property 101) Copyright is automatic and immediate, as soon as the expression of an idea is "fixed in a medium discernable by eye or machine" it is protected. Copyright can be applied to any creative work of "sufficient originality" Trademark can only be applied to a commercial entity, goods or service. Trademark must be applied for and protects a symbol or wordmark that represents either a business or the good/services they provide. Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects cannot be copyrighted. Virtually anything representing a business/goods/services can be trademarked. Copyright only protects a specific work. Trademark protects a word, symbol, logo, etc, within a specific industry. Copyright does not need to be defended, nor officially registered to be effective. It cannot be lost only sold or given away (Public Domain) Trademarks MUST be defended or they can be lost through "dilution". (the words nylon & cellophane, as well as "smiley faces" are examples of trademarks lost through neglect) Copyright has a term of life+ 70 years for individuals and 95 years past 1st publication for corporations (work for hire) and cannot be renewed Trademark has a life or either 10 or 20 years & can be renewed indefinetly. A copyrighted work that has fallen into the Public Domain remains there. It cannot be "re copyrighted" A trademark that hasbeen abandoned can be reregistered even by a different person/business that the one who originally owned it. Similarities Permission to use a trademark or copyright can only be given by the legitimate holder (or an authorized agent) The "fair use" exception can apply to either copyrighted works or trademarks. Permission to use a copyrighted or trademarked work can be withdrawn by the legal holder (or agent) at anytime, for any reason, unless proscribed by a signed contract.

Attached Link: http://www.posermax.com

Ohhh Im sorry !!! I didnt know about this thread before now in this very moment. The case with Free Store was that I asked CL if we could use the name poser-free-store.com as name of our site. They just said no. No actual reason was given. We was just told to changes the name because it was their trademark. Thats why we closed down...and now to read the thread from the beginning :-)

ming, "Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects CANNOT be copyrighted."

Ming "Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects CANNOT be copyrighted." They are trademarked. "McDonalds" is a trademark not a copyright

Awww...uhhh...how sad...some of you good people think we made this story about CL up....please you can see the mails postet in RFI http://www.xfx-3d.com/postnuke/html/index.php?name=PNphpBB2_12a&file=viewtopic&t=40&start=4000 Snif-snif...its true :-)

ohhh and for the name poser-free-store...it was just a joke Kleopetra came up with in a more or less sane moment...and Ill shut up now :-)

Do not think you made it up, Skygirl. What I meant was, maybe someone pretending to be a CL rep sent you a phony C&D by way of a prank. It's been known to happen, but not I see in this case. Sorry about your site woes, this really sucks rotten eggses. Hmm, maybe I oughta lob a few of those at whoever dreamt up the whole notion of monopolizing bits & pieces of the English (or any other)language that way. Stinkers, the lot of 'em!

Attached Link: http://www.xfx-3d.com/postnuke/html/index.php?name=PNphpBB2_12a&file=viewtopic&t=40&start=4000

it's not hard to sign up, free membership, & they even let me in :-)

Cracking down on web sites that contain some variant of the word "Poser" in the name will only garner ill will, a LOT of ill will. Insurance companies have the legal right to perform credit checks on every one of us on a regular basis. But just because something is legal, does not make it right.

So, CL may have a perfect legal right to clamp down on the use of Poser in many fan-related web sites, but is it the right thing to do?

A better solution would be to ask any site which contains the word "Poser" in its name to establish a Curious Labs logo and link to where the software may be found and purchased, as a pre-requisite to using the word. That way nobody gets mad and both parties win. CL gets more revenue from ad-driven sales and end-users can just Google the word "Poser" to find other end-users and content.

So... how bout' it?

Skygirl indicated that the situation arose because she and her partner asked permission to use "poser" in the site-name - CL said no - it wasn't a "crack down" - so we can assume the best way to get "Poser" included in your site-name is to NOT ASK permission from CL then hope they don't notce or bother about it til a few years have passed and the trademark protection lapses - However, if people DO ask, the proviso(spelling?) of including the a nice big badged link to CL and Poser homepage would be a good idea. But, in the end, I guess saying "no" outright to any requests saves them alot of hassle - because if a site gets "official" CL support, then CL would have to keep checking back all the time to make sure the site doesn't go all poser-p*rn or anything...or write up contracts setting out ToS and whatnot...

You are absolutely right bigjobbie, the situation arose because we asked permission. They gave us a no and we closed down the site. That is all there is in this story. And that is nothing big. We have in no way been hunted down by CL or anything like that...for Kleopetra and I it is only a question about buying a new domaine name and re-upload the site with a new name.

That's not entirely true. According to the communications that were posted, Curious Labs was considering the proposal, and asked for a business plan. When one was not provided, they politely said "no." I still find that response very confusing.

Ok over again :-) When our site was an entirely free stuff site CL told us no, but that dont make any difference in our end. If we want the site back on line it have to be under a different name :-)